General Heelside Comment

[Jack M]

A few years ago when I interviewed Mark Fawcett, he said something that got stuck in my head. He complimented Jasey Jay Anderson's technique, saying "I think he's using a little more bone structure than I am, he's a little more straighter-legged, a little more squared-up, and those are things I'm constantly working on."

I've been watching the SES/ECES dvd (multiple times since I can't get on the snow and I'm jonesing pretty hard), admiring all the different carving styles out there. I've noticed some people are having a little difficulty on heelside. I've been trying to diagnose what I'm seeing, but I was having a hard time putting my finger on exactly what is happening.

Then it hit me. I've noticed something simple that ALL the good riders in the dvd do in common. On heelside, they tip the board up and lean into the turn FIRST, and bend their knees SECOND. Some people who are having a little trouble on heelside appear to be "sitting" into the turn first, then tipping the board up second.

The lean-first technique uses more bone structure, the bend-first technique relies more on muscle, and it would appear results in less balance control.

In fact, the lean-first people's legs actually don't appear to <i>do</i> anything other than manipulate the edge angle of the board. Once they've settled into the carve, the knees are just used for shock absorption.

Bending the knees first puts you in a sitting position where you don't have as much freedom to control the board, and you're relying on brute force from your quads and shins - and you haven't even tipped the board up on edge yet.

Check out the dvd and see if you can see what I'm talking about. Anyone else notice this?

[skategoat]

Excellent advice. I've been told repeatedly - "bend at the knees". I think I've fallen into the habit of sitting too much. I find that gets me locked into a heelside and I'm struggling to transition back to the toes.

When I watch the best riders, they are effortless. So I know they are using physics rather than muscle. But I have yet to really figure out what they are doing. They all tell me - "bend your knees".

Can't wait to try again.

[Allee]

I know that when I was taking a lesson with PSR and having trouble with heelsides, that his advice was to drive my knee across into the turn and pull up with the front toe. The knee starts the turn, the pull up tips the board, and it's way easier to start the carve without it sliding out.

Works well for me.

[Jack M]

I agree with PSR's advice - driving the knee across the board to get it up on edge early.

Another thing that happens when you simply crouch down with your knees before leaning in to the turn is it tends to pressure the middle of the board at a time when you need to be driving the nose.

Pat Donelly just sent me this video clip:

http://www.uc.edu/geology/geologylist/2-11-03.mpg

It's a good example of simply leaning in to the heelside without sitting into it first. The rider is pretty much just using cross-over technique, which isn't very dynamic, but this can be applied to cross-under and cross-through as well.

[willywhit]

I've found that progression in heelsides is to commit into the turn to the point where you feel like you're going land on your keister and let the CG snap you out of the end of the turn to prevent a butt slam. Maybe it's bad advice but that little ooomph makes the edge hook up a little harder.That's what impressed me most about the Madd when I demo'd it. It REALLY hooked up HARD on heelside when you commited really hard. You feel like you're going over backwards and zooomp, the tail pops you back up. Again, this could be poor technique but it works for me.

[Jack M]

Originally posted by Jim Callen

I've got more racing on my mind then most freecarvers, and I find that by initiating my turn with my knees, rather than leaning into the turn, it keeps my center of mass more over my board. And like you said, that back knee is crucial to drive into the snow.

This is hard to talk about on a computer screen. Initiating a turn with your knees by using them to flick the board from one edge to the other is good. I think that's what you're saying. I'm just saying I'm seeing some people who finish a toeside carve, stand up, then crouch down into a sitting position <i>before</i> tilting the board up on heelside edge. It's hard to pressure the nose and it's hard to angulate from this position.

[Vahur]

Interesting view to good turn with reference to bone structure. I guess that it's basically same as Chris Klug suggest in his webpage:

http://www.chrisklug.com/, from there "Pro Tips" and "Anatomy of a Turn" (it's flash, so no direct link can't be given ).

Tip the board up early... etc

[Steve Dold]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

I'm just saying I'm seeing some people who finish a toeside carve, stand up, then crouch down into a sitting position <i>before</i> tilting the board up on heelside edge. It's hard to pressure the nose and it's hard to angulate from this position.

I think I do this too, Jack. Also on almost every transition between the toeside and heelside, when the board is flat it pivots to the left a little, so that the heelside carve sometimes begins as a heelside skid. It's as if my body is "unwinding" from facing-the-nose to facing the side of the board (butt-out).

Any advice on fixing this would be great. Getting the board on edge faster seems to help. Maybe that, and not standing up between turns, is the key?

[neil sunday]

when i am coaching my young racers, i have them traverse on a toe-side edge, and then move all weight (or 75%) to the front foot, which starts the board downhill.

They will then commit to the carved turn by "sitting" into the turn, while the "uphill arm is at their ear (preventing leaning into the hill with the shoulders=skidding out) and driving their "downhill" arm to the front toepiece of the binding.

It all starts with the forward initiation like Jack is saying, followed by a smooth bending of the knees into the carve. In my opion, hips foward is where it all starts. Forward momentum to start the turn.

[Jack M]

in addition to what neil said, I would read the article on cross-over, cross-under, cross-through. cross-through is the goal.

gotta run.

[carvedog]

How does moving your weight to the front foot make the board go downhill?

If it is the weighted edge wouldn't the extra weight dig the edge in more and actually want to make the tail go downhill?

almost every transition between the toeside and heelside, when the board is flat it pivots to the left a little, so that the heelside carve sometimes begins as a heelside skid. It's as if my body is "unwinding" from facing-the-nose to facing the side of the board (butt-out).

Sounds like a bit too much upper body rotation at the start of your turn. Instead of letting your lead (left hand - you are regular right?) hand drift down the hill ( to come off the toeside ) try to keep your hand on your front thigh and let the knees do the initiating. That combined with a good unweighting move should keep you in the goods.

The other thing that might help is to reach down the hill with back hand ( not rotate ) but reach for the outside cuff of your back foot.

Warning this can cause substantially deep trenches.

Best Jerry

[Lowell Hart]

<img src="http://tinypic.com/1exki8">

...Heelside.

Cheers,

LH

[carvedog]

Lowell

nice bones. I personally don't like to rotate my unfleshed upper body around that far

Can you do one with the back hand reaching for the cuff of back boot? Or for the grab (between feet)

Maybe its just me but I could swear Jerry was in the room.

Gratefully yours,

J

[neil sunday]

carvedog,

stand on the hill on your heelside edge with your hips right smack between your feet. move your weight forward- as in the direction of the nose of the board. perhaps i left this little part out, as it has been drilled some many times into our heads, which way "forward" is. "forward" is NOT "downhill" as i think this is what you are perceiving.

anyways. with hips centered between your feet, you can side-slip down the hill... as you move your weight "forward" - also known as to the front foot of the board, feel what happens- the nose of the board will automatically slide down the hill. 100% of the time.

repreat thhis exercise in moving your hips to the back foot. the tail will slide down the hill. this is a tendency of many carvers to make the mistake of getting caught on the tail end of the board, and simply tuirning off the tail. try it and see what you think.. good luck. by utilizing for and aft pressure throughout the turn you will increase the dynamics of a carved turn...

[Phil]

Wazzup Neil

I know what you are saying, and I know what carvedog is saying - If you only shift your weight forward (toward the nose) but keep your ankles plantar flexed, the board will not turn downhill. I believe what you are implying Neil is that when you shift your weight forward, your body tends to automatically make your ankle dorsi flex in order to release the edge toward the front of the board therefore turning the board downhill.

You are both right, in your own ways. I think that the problem is that (especially on bomber) people tend to talk about weight shifts and driving the knees, but leave the ankles out.

Ankles, ankles ankles! Hardbooters' most neglected joint.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Lowell Hart

<img src="http://tinypic.com/1exki8">

...Heelside.

Cheers,

LH

thats pretty badass. a little over rotated though;)

[neil sunday]

phil- excellent point regarding the ankles. just becasue they're in hardboots doesnt mean you can't flex 'em! i think every hardbooter should ride softies once in a while in order to realize what role the ankles do play during the turn, especially iniation...

-- when have you been riding? i'm at the mountain on mon, weds, sat, sun.

[Phil]

I am a stay at home dad this year, so I am only working part time.

T, R, and Sat - morning and early afternoon. Hopefully next year I will be full time again.

[neil sunday]

Congrats on the child... shoot me an email at : neilsunday@aol.com and we can go out and make some turns one morning. i've been dialing in my 186cm GS board after riding my 163 SL stick for 15 days to start the season. (I quickly was reminded how small our hill can get.)

[skywalker]

Don't know, how to explain exactly, and don't have the time to point out properly, But:

Don't totally agree. Yes, extended legs are essential for proper heelside turns... but not especially in the beginning of the turn! I don't want to start a "them - us" discussion here, but www.extremecarving.com show's, that heelside works also, when the turns are started with bent legs --if the are extended DYNAMICALLY directly afterwards. This is, was I've learned about cross under / flexion turns / push pull: Backside doesn't work, if the vertical dynamic is missing. But if one pushes properly after the edge change, a great backside can be reached. So IMO it's NOT the extended legs at the right start of the turn, but in the control period of it. But right: flexed legs on heelside will keep the board from proper angulation... and won't support enough efge pressure for deeply carved heelside turns.

Only my very personal point of fiew ;)

Tom

[Jack M]

I agree completely, the technique you describe is totally fine. What I was talking about is finishing a toeside carve, standing up, then crouching down into a sitting position before tilting the board up on edge. It's just not necessary. Patrice and Jacques do not have this problem at all, they are excellent carvers. Maybe I'm not describing it well enough, but I wasn't referring to the push-pull technique, which is a fine way to ride. It's actually quite similar to cross-through.

[bartron]

I scanned image this from a newspaper last week before going on vacation.

[boostertwo]

Thanks for posting.

[Guest chillaxin.nl]

Maybe this picture will shine some light on things....yep...it's me during my last visit in France three weeks ago.

initiate the turn by pushing your knees into the turn, then use your ankles to tilt the board a bit more and then move down with your body...same goes for front and backside turns.

[neil sunday]

nice heelside carve- this technique will work fine on nice, packed snow. your technique is perfect...

change these conditions to less than favorable, and you'll find yourself skidding/sliding the turn.

note the c.o.g. in relation to the heelside edge of the board. bent knees would allow his c.o.g. to remain closer to the edge providing more edge grip in bumpy, icy conditions.

also- the knees are together- reads "separate Zee knees" to explain why separted legs are stronger and provide a "platform" of stability to place your weight on... the same goes for toeside turns. the c.o.g. of this rider is about 24" from his toeside edge. this will equal skids or chattering on any other snow than this... that being said, again- nice technique for the snow conditions. we call this stuff "hero" snow, as it allows for easy carving at all times.

My Final Comment about JJA would simply be, that undoubtedly he one of the finest racers in the world. his technique is perfect- when faced with winning a world cup race, racers focus on one thing- going fast. technique is sometimes thrown to the wayside in lieu of being quick. this is why the front leg is almost straight, and the shoulders are angulated into the hill.. when winning is priority, the years of perfect technique willtake you to a certain level. pushing that technique even further gets you faster... in JJA's case - a couple WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!