morganmachen Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 So, I was scarving down an icy, moderately steep blue run when my heelside edge began to skip. I spun out and found myself sliding on my back headfirst down the run. I dug the board in the best I could but it was merely bouncing. My hands were also clawing at the snow but neither was slowing me down much. After about fifty feet I managed to slow down and somehow got my board around. I felt really lucky there was no immovable object in my path and made a mental note to learn how better to negotiate a situation like that. A glove with a retractable rake would've come in handy. Any tips/feedback would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 So, I was scarving down an icy, moderately steep blue run when my heelside edge began to skip. I spun out and found myself sliding on my back headfirst down the run. I dug the board in the best I could but it was merely bouncing. My hands were also clawing at the snow but neither was slowing me down much. After about fifty feet I managed to slow down and somehow got my board around. I felt really lucky there was no immovable object in my path and made a mental note to learn how better to negotiate a situation like that. A glove with a retractable rake would've come in handy. Any tips/feedback would be greatly appreciated. Just keep riding poor conditions your skills will improve. Stay low, stay centred and commit. Pad up. The taller you ride the more reaction time you will need to balance yourself. Well tuned equip will be critical as the load on your edges changes on ice. I tend to ride too tall when conditions are good but have learned to relax and squat more if I see some bad terrain coming. The tendency is to do the opposite and usually ends badly . I believe riding an isolation plate on ice improves your ability to handle poor conditions and enjoy it. Boiler Plate Lite 4mm for recreational riding, stiffer if racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 The need for self-arrest tells me you were on terrain above your ability. Spend some time getting to know your sidecut on the gentler slopes. Master them before worrying about equipment or advanced technique. Wax on, wax off. Hilarious thread title by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganmachen Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Awesome, thanks for taking the time to help a brother out. What do you wear in the way of pads? I mentioned the possibility of adding a Boiler Plate to my vintage Rossi R159 to a couple of members here awhile back. They both said it was way too soon for me to even consider it. I couldn't quite understand why. QUOTE=lowrider;419918]Just keep riding poor conditions your skills will improve. Stay low, stay centred and commit. Pad up. The taller you ride the more reaction time you will need to balance yourself. Well tuned equip will be critical as the load on your edges changes on ice. I tend to ride too tall when conditions are good but have learned to relax and squat more if I see some bad terrain coming. The tendency is to do the opposite and usually ends badly . I believe riding an isolation plate on ice improves your ability to handle poor conditions and enjoy it. Boiler Plate Lite 4mm for recreational riding, stiffer if racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganmachen Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Thanks a lot for the feedback Jack. I'm guessing by 'wax on, wax off' you mean the action of the leading hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks a lot for the feedback Jack. I'm guessing by 'wax on, wax off' you mean the action of the leading hand? I'm going to guess Jack was referring to doing all the exercises he wrote extensively about on BOL. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Wax on wax off means practice until the motion becomes ingrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganmachen Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Cool, I'll check that out. Thanks! I'm going to guess Jack was referring to doing all the exercises he wrote extensively about on BOL.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganmachen Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Got it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) From your description, it sounds like you were not loading the heelside edge evenly, and your board simply did what it was 'asked' to do. Do a search and read up on binding configuration. Cant, lift, angles, bias, etc. Or get yourself some Adamantium claws. Edited March 24, 2014 by Beckmann AG forgot to remember something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darko714 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Welcome to eastern conditions. Don't worry too much about a 50 foot headfirst ice slide, done myself it lots of times with no injury. In ice country, we call that "doing the starfish". While unnerving, the starfish is loads better than the cartwheel. In terms of wreck management, I might question your trying to dig the board in. If you're sliding headfirst try dragging one elbow until you're going feet first. I was told to kill heelside ice chatter by reaching for my front-foot boot cuff with my uphill hand. It works as long as I remember to actually do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I was told to kill heelside ice chatter by reaching for my front-foot boot cuff with my uphill hand. That actually works? I have to try that. Myself, I reach toward my front-foot binding (or the edge slightly tip-wards of it) with my downhill hand. Helps to put weight on the front foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darko714 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 That actually works? I have to try that. Myself, I reach toward my front-foot binding (or the edge slightly tip-wards of it) with my downhill hand. Helps to put weight on the front foot. ============== You're right!! I meant downhill! A less ambiguous way to put it is: on the heelside turn, reach for the front binding with your right hand if you ride regular, and with your left hand if you ride goofy. Apologies for the ambiguity. I hope you didn't try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganmachen Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Heheh, those claws are exactly what I need, thanks! Cant lift, angles, and bias, etc...I'll definitely look into it. Cheers From your description, it sounds like you were not loading the heelside edge evenly, and your board simply did what it was 'asked' to do.Do a search and read up on binding configuration. Cant, lift, angles, bias, etc. Or get yourself some Adamantium claws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganmachen Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Got it, thanks! Since I'm goofy footed my uphill hand on my heel edge would be my left hand, right? You mentioned a cartwheel versus a 'starfish', have you actually done one? I've seen very few carvers, and even fewer who ever wiped out. Are wipe outs in hardboots much different than in softboots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganmachen Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I just read your clarification about the downhill hand. makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darko714 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Got it, thanks! Since I'm goofy footed my uphill hand on my heel edge would be my left hand, right? You mentioned a cartwheel versus a 'starfish', have you actually done one? I've seen very few carvers, and even fewer who ever wiped out. Are wipe outs in hardboots much different than in softboots? ============== Goofy footed: try to reach the front boot cuff with the left on the heelside. For me, wipeouts in hardboots have been more common, but less serious, than the ones in softboots. I've been hardbooting 6 years now, but I'm only intermediate and still learning. I'm always trying to get faster and lower, and make quicker transitions, so I consider falling part of the game. My wipeouts are usually heelside buttslides and the result of lazy riding posture, then losing the edge on a patch of ice or an unseen bump. If I'm going fast on steeper terrain, I'll occasionally end up in a rotating slide (the starfish) like you did. Since I don't go near fixed objects, I just ride it out until I stop, since trying to dig the board in when I'm still moving might result it a twisted knee. I usually get bounced around a bit by sliding over uneven ice. Here's a euro-dude losing his front binding and doing a pretty nice starfish: The cartwheel is what you want to avoid. That can happen when you are going really fast and hit a roller and/or dig the nose of the board into soft snow, or lose your balance and catch a downhill edge. Like the name suggests, you get launched vertically "over the handlebars" and cartwheel down the hill end over end. Here's a friend of mine catching an edge in a USASA race: Here's Olympic gold medalist Jasey Jay Anderson launching off a roller: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricky Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) How are the edges on your board? I just tuned one of my best boards to -4 (86 )degree side edge from -3 side (-1, 89 base) and like it on eastern Hard Pack and Ice. Now I'll do some of the other boards. I just purchased the Tooltonic Ice-Catcher tuning tool, but haven't tried it yet. Bricky Edited March 26, 2014 by Bricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Apologies for the ambiguity. I hope you didn't try it. Nope try to reach the front boot cuff with the left on the heelside. For starters, you might try reaching further down, until it has become ingrained. Try the toe of your front boot, or even grab the edge itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darko714 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 How are the edges on your board? I just tuned one of my best boards to -4 (86 )degree side edge from -3 side (-1, 89 base) and like it on eastern Hard Pack and Ice. Now I'll do some of the other. boards.Bricky Great suggestion, Bricky. My boards are -3 and definitely could use a tune. I don't have -4 edge bevel guide, but I'll pick one up from Fuxi at Hood this summer and try it on the bulletproof next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganmachen Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I just have a basic 90 degree edge file. I really don't have any experience with edge tuning but I guess I better learn more about it. If I'm gonna do this I might as well do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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