permeated Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Hi there! Thanks for a cool community, I love lurking around here! I took up softboot snowboarding last season, spending a week in the Alps - mostly on my ass. This season I decided to take a proper softboot course, and spent 8 weeks in Whistler riding a little bit of everything (groomers, park, trees, powder...). When I started finding my edges, I quickly realized that carving is what gives me the butterflies. I switched angles from +15/-15 to +21/+9 and made it a mission to try and carve every single turn (and I really do mean every single turn) where possible. I considered skidded turns a failure! Sure riding powder was fun, and the trees were a cool challenge, but as soon as I got back on the nice groomers I felt right at home. By the end of my 8 weeks, I was doing pretty quick cross-under carves on the easier runs both regular and switch. I had problems carving on steeper runs, but Im hoping that will disappear with more milage next season. :) Naturally, Im looking at making the switch to hardboots. I will not be able to try any gear out before I buy, so I have tried to do some research on all this. However I am getting a bit lost, and now feel I need help from you experts. Me: 80 kg / 175 lbs 190 cm / 6'3 Mondo 27 Id like my first board to be pretty versatile and not too expensive. I want it to be able to hold a solid edge on hard ice, and nimble enough to tackle big afternoon moguls. Id like to be able to do an ExtremeCarve and hit a jump every now and again, and riding switch would be a good bonus. So far the closest I have found is the F2 Speedster GTS 166, but maybe the scr is too small (9,8) for EC, and the waist too narrow (200) for good EC and switch angles? The F2 El Diablo has a better waist (228) but worse scr (9), I can however get one very cheaply. Or should I maybe look for something more similar to the F2 Silberpfeil Vantage 169 (11 scr/220 waist)? Can you ride switch on a board with a flat tail like that? I want my bindings and boots to be something I can progress with and use for many seasons. For bindings Im thinking F2 Titanium Race (Sidewinders will have to wait :D), and the boots Im guessing should be stiffer ones such as RC10/HSP/DL700? Should I invest in a BTS/ACSS from the start? This turned out way longer than I hoped, but I really want to make my hardboot setup work from the beginning. I spent way too much money on different soft gear only to realize I probably cant get the power and precision needed to snowboard the way I really want to. :o Anyway, thanks for taking your time to read this. Any advice at all is greatly appreciated! /Dan Edit: Oh no, my forum title is "Skidder"! How uncool is that. Better post a lot! Edited March 19, 2014 by permeated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Since you are in Europe check out the website Pureboarding. The boards they make are very versatile. There are places to demo boards I think? There are videos showing all forms of alpine riding and a schedule of events to try out gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Actually you could possibly try out gear before you buy, if you visit one of the hardbooting events which they talk about here. At Carving Masters in Solden for example, I believe you can hire hard gear in the village, and also when the event is on there are lots of manufacturers who lend gear for people to try. Most people there are fairly full on, although I expect they'd be keen to help really. I rode/ liked earlier F2 boards, although I switched to Kessler for my current piste board. I get the feeling that F2 comes and goes, perhaps as the brand is bought and sole or as they change shaper or something. If you're buying boards, I'd check the precise vintage and talk to someone who has ridden it so you know what the characteristics are. I weigh less than you and ride shorter; for European resorts, unless you just want to ride motorways, then in my view boards for which the first two length numbers are 1 and 6 sound about right, although of course look at the manufacturer's recommendations. You want to be in the middle of the recommended weight range if you're buying without riding. You've a fairly broad range of requirements there, so it may be tricky to find something which covers all of that. Me, I have one board for the piste and one for powder; I can ride one board in the other environment, but it's not as much fun as using the right tool for the job. Thoughts... - You can ride any board (including my Fish) backwards, but if you're looking for good performance backwards, then you compromise forwards performance. And of course people like me will point out that the trick is not actually a trick if you're riding a true twin board with a symmetrical stance. Casper Carver can probably ride switch on anything, but most people won't find it much fun with alpine angles on a carving board (you get neck ache). You will not see many hard booters riding backwards: there are more amusing things to do. - EC.. is a specialist field with a distinct turning style. Best ask those guys what works best, but their dedicated boards would likely be the answer. - Moguls are probably avoided by those riding big stiff boards for obvious reasons. Riding bumps and holding an edge at Mach 2 are different things. - It's hard to judge a board without actually riding it. I'd opt for any board of any design in the right size, over a perfect board in the wrong size for me. The balance between rider weight and board is crucial to me and the way I ride at least. Hence buying without riding is a risk, although I've done it, sometimes getting it right, sometimes not. Close examination of the manufacturer's description and specification helps increase the hit rate. For what it's worth this is also my bitch against "custom" boards - that's great if you can work with a shaper iteratively to get things right, but otherwise you're back to buying blind really. Bindings. Well, with due respect to those paying for these pixels, as a European myself, I love my simple F2 Titanium race bindings, which last forever and could take you from your first hard boot to the olympics without fuss or bother. I think you can't buy my favourite HSP boots any more. I would not personally invest in "extras" for boots until you know what you want/ need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 perhaps pokkis will chime in with details of the meetup planned for Oppdal this year. not sure about demos or the like, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darko714 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Since you are in Europe check out the website Pureboarding. The boards they make are very versatile. There are places to demo boards I think? There are videos showing all forms of alpine riding and a schedule of events to try out gear. ========== Absolutely agree. I've demoed 2 Pureboarding boards (the "II" and the "Bastard") at their events and found them great for all-mountain riding, including bumps, and you can still EC the hell out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calle Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Where in Sweden? Cheap F2 stuff can be found on ebay.de Edited March 21, 2014 by Calle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Gotta run but there are some articles in my links below to help get into the sport. Welcome and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 As to bindings: I'm at 145lbs and the F2 race titanium work great for me even when I'm doing stupid stuff that could break my board. TD2's were too stiff. I'm guessing that sidewinders would feel similar and would be bullet proof, but I haven't tried them because...dat price tag. not sure as to availability around you, but my friend who is about 175lbs uses burton physics (step in) and likes them a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permeated Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Hi again! Thanks for the advice, and sorry for late response. I actually ended up buying used stuff; Coiler AM-T 172 and MADD 158 with Catek OS2s from kumimajava on this forum. The stuff is probably too advanced for a noob like me, but then again I have read that titanal is supposed to be forgiving... With these two boards I hope to be able to practice both slalom and hard carving. I will definitely attend some kind of hardbooting event next season, and maybe find someone willing to instruct me for a day or two. :) About the OS2s... Does anyone know if it is "ok" to mount them in the most rearward holes of the mounting plate? Or should the binding be centered over the inserts? I want to mount the bindings as far forward on the board as the inserts will allow, but I dont want to risk breaking the board due to weird leverage... Cheers! /Dan Edited March 31, 2014 by permeated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 The Coiler will make you good - that was an excellent buy. Can't speak to the Madd or the Cateks (no experience). If I was you: I would use the Madd first until I got my ass handed to me enough times, then switch to the Coiler, get better on that, then go back to the Madd. Binding placement: Ideally, you want to be centered on the board. If this is uncomfortable, there are two schools of thought: 1) you must stay centered, so if you move the back binding back 1 set, you need to move the front binding forward 1 set; 2) don't touch the front binding, move the back binding back until comfortable; 3) do whatever you want. While it's important to start right, it's more important to just start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permeated Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 The Coiler will make you good - that was an excellent buy. Can't speak to the Madd or the Cateks (no experience). If I was you: I would use the Madd first until I got my ass handed to me enough times, then switch to the Coiler, get better on that, then go back to the Madd. Sounds like a good idea! Binding placement: Ideally, you want to be centered on the board. If this is uncomfortable, there are two schools of thought: 1) you must stay centered, so if you move the back binding back 1 set, you need to move the front binding forward 1 set; 2) don't touch the front binding, move the back binding back until comfortable; 3) do whatever you want. While it's important to start right, it's more important to just start. Yeah the plan is to be centered at first (I never liked being setback on my softboot boards anyway), however the setback is quite big on both boards (like 40mm). Think I can mount the front disc like the right one in the picture below in order to gain a few mm? Or will that apply weird pressure on the inserts or board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 unless you're being really aggressive and weigh a lot you're not going to mess anything up. hell, even then you probably wouldn't mess anything up. Are there three sets of holes or four? I can't tell from the pic. Are you centered here, but just "biased" towards the front because you put the screws through the rear holes on the disks? If so, I think that's fine. That's actually kind of how I ride. You really just have to try it out. I remember when I was learning I would have some days where it felt like I was tweaking things all day; 75% of the time with my gloves off and my screw driver in my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permeated Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 I'm centered on the sidecut at my desired stance width like that. I guess I'm just paranoid since reading that "OS2s break titanal boards"... But yeah, I'll probably strip the inserts from tweaking stuff before I'm at a level where I can actually overpower the board like that. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 I'm at 145lbs/65kg and sometimes really push my boards, not just with carving but I do stupid jumps I shouldn't on them. I did one particular jump this season with my titanal Coiler and I landed entirely on the nose, watched it fold up to a horrifying degree (way more than I thought a board could bend) and then rocket me into a heelside carve. No damage whatsoever. So...yeah, my lighter weight might be helping me here but from what I can tell even titanal boards can take a beating. Again, no experience with OS2's and I've never broken an insert. I'm sure there's a thread somewhere on here about how to break boards/inserts. and if there's not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 You're totally fine mounting the bindings like shown. However, try centering them on the inserts. Board makers are pretty smart, they don't locate the inserts based on guesses or the cloud cover the day they make the board. They put them where they find the best performance out of the board and shape the core profile (stiffness) assuming people are going to put their feet somewhat near those inserts. To fine-tune - Bruce from Coiler suggested that if a board feels too stiff and hard to turn, move your bindings forward a bit. If it feels soft and you're worried about augering in and doing a front flip, move the bindings back a bit. Adjust to taste, and ride more. The modern race-inspired boards are quite set back from center. Other boards are closer to center. Putting a 182 Coiler NSR next to a 180 Donek Proteus is funny; the Donek's inserts are closer to centered while the Coiler inserts are quite a bit back from there. Both ride great while centered on the inserts! Completely different, but great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Here's a link to PureBoarding's next event http://www.pureboarding.com/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/Ausschreibungen/2013-14/Announcement-Kaunertal-05-2014-E.pdf And you've still got time for this one too http://www.carving-masters.de/cmstartup/cm/index.php which is a HUGE event! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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