Carving Masters

[pogokoenig]

Thanks, Schneewurm, for your enlightment.

[Hans]

Thanks, Schneewurm, for your enlightment.

Schneewurm knows what he is talking about :lol:. He better takes a stroopwafel ;)

[philw]

I think there are many differences between the Alps and North America. I have not found the wealthiness of the participants to differ much: both places are entirely private jet capable. Many places I've ridden in North America are accessed by locals (and me) on the school bus - those people aren't poor, but they're not hugely rich either.

I'm unconvinced that different technology is required by the terrain/ demographics/ whatever on each side of the Atlantic, but I do think that the markets are different, and so different products, or different marketing, may work in different places. Perhaps that's almost stating the obvious.

Maybe more interesting is that if your marketing is good enough you can even sell products which are manifestly unsuited to the market - for example mountain bikes in flat lands.

[kieran]

mountain bikes in flat lands.

and full-suspension ones at that ..

[leeho730]

and full-suspension ones at that ..

:lol:

[Hans]

and full-suspension ones at that ..

Look out. I ride a fullsuspension MTB in the Netherlands which country is supposed to be flat, come on and ride a weekend with me at the Posbank and you will find your tongue on your frontwheel ;):rolleyes:

[kieran]

Look out. I ride a fullsuspension MTB in the Netherlands which country is supposed to be flat, come on and ride a weekend with me at the Posbank and you will find your tongue on your frontwheel ;):rolleyes:

it could be an international exchange! you can ride at golspie in return ;)

[Hans]

Golspie looks interesting. Playing some golf :D

[regulator]

hi west carven,

nice job... i'm the first rider and i am the one of "female extreme carving". i met sean and todd in sölden and it was fun to ride with them. i'm riding a virus thunder with zylon, specially made for me.

Edited May 15, 2013 by regulator

[west carven]

howdy regulator

what are the specs of your board? i know better and will not ask for a womens weight, but

weight are for custom boards anyways. i think sean will be making boards like virus, short,

narrow and snappy flex. you are the most smooth rider and make the most beautiful carves.

i hope some day we can ride together...

west carven

[Donek]

Here's a little update on what we've done as a result of going to CM.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Xt67o-NCxqw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[RCrobar]

Hi Fin

Traditional or BP version - what's the difference?

We now offer 2 options for the lower assemblies on the binding - Traditional (shown on right) and plate (shown on left). The plate (or BP) version is 1/4" lower, and 1/2 pound lighter. The BP version was only designed to be used with a plate system! Mounting it directly onto a board is done at your own risk and not recommended by Bomber. The BP version comes with only one density of e-ring. Also note that the screws are not the same for the Traditional and BP versions. This option will be available when you order a binding, or a 2nd board kit.

In the video above you have the BP Version mounted directly to the board, no plate. The information from the Bomber Store indicates that this is not recommended. Can you shed a bit of light on this?

Thanks

Rob

[Donek]

Hi Fin

In the video above you have the BP Version mounted directly to the board, no plate. The information from the Bomber Store indicates that this is not recommended. Can you shed a bit of light on this?

Thanks

Rob

In general, you might tread lightly when using this assembly directly mounted to a metal board. I do not believe you would have any issues if doing so on our freecarve or proteus models. You might on our REV series boards. You would be fine on all our fiberglass constructions.

[RCrobar]

Hi Sean

Would using the either of the two set ups stated below change your answer regarding which boards are safe?

A wide alpine board (21 to 23 cm), lower stance angles (Low 50's High 40's) with softer Standard Toe Bail TD3 Sidewinders.

vs

A skinny alpine board (15 to 18cm), higher stance angles (Low 60's High 50's) with stiffer TD3 Step Ins.

Being a non engineering type, I am trying to understand why and where the force 'may' cause an issue. I remember the old TD1 issues, but was still quite surprised to read Fin's disclaimer regarding the lower binding assembly. To the non engineer type it seems like the BP version lower assembly would behave a lot like the newer Catek lower assembly, perfectly round, etc. Also, would the sidewinders movement help to take some of the stress away from the boards' inserts?

The lower and 1/2 pound lighter binding assembly is really interesting.

Thank you for your reply(s) and expert insights ... and the videos are fun to watch:)

Rob

[fin]

Rob,

Good observation and let me see if I can address this:

First, we currently have that disclaimer to only use the BP lowers on a plate as we just did not have any history using those directly on a board. So we where being conservative there. However, since then (about two seasons) I have had several riders use the BP direct on their boards and we have seen no issues (both metal and glass based board)

My initial math/studies say there will be no issues, however, I have no control how a manufacturer re-enforces their inserts so we played it safe. The industry does have a standard for insert strength specified in ISO #10958-2, but as I am slowly finding out, a portion of board manufacturers are NOT following this standard. So it is hard for us to determine where their will be a problem.

But I do believe we will remove this warning with the side note that people should ask their board manufacturer if they pass the ISO #10958-2.

Also, on a super skinny board (like we where riding) the forces tend to be predominately lateral (side to side). And coupled with the fact when a board gets skinnier the core tends to a get thinker, you end up with a very strong set of inserts.

Side note: years ago when we came out with the SW bindings, I had a guy named Ray who rides pretty much only supper narrow boards try the SW at one of the Sessions. Before he went out, I warned him that I thought this will be a "fail" experiment in that I predicted the SW will NOT be a good binding for such high angles. Reason was that at these high angle (say 70 deg and up) you relay almost completely on the side of your cuff to get the board over on the edge. At lower angles we use a combination of the cuff and the front and rear of the boot. So the SW has that designed movement side to side, but on a skinny board this will lower your ability to get the board over on edge.

Sure enough Ray went out, did a few runs, and came back with the same conclusion, the board was hard to get on edge and keep there. So he went back to his non-SW bindings and all was good.

So Sean and I on this test day where riding TD3 SI to get that lateral force you need.

[Hans]

You nailed it Fin here. You don't need any lateral movement out of your binding set up with high stance angles/narrow boards. Otherwise if you have lateral movement, the control and feeling will be much less. So I think TD3 SI Sidewinders will also be not for me on my small Virus boards I ride. That lower binding assembly is interesting. So my EUROS goes to Bomber on this to get as low as possible.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Hans

[piusthedrcarve]

Sean,

If the board is that narrow, are those UPM inserts ever get used? I don't see any advantage of having those inserts on skinny boards. If you think otherwise, please educate me.

[Donek]

Sean,

If the board is that narrow, are those UPM inserts ever get used? I don't see any advantage of having those inserts on skinny boards. If you think otherwise, please educate me.

When you build a prototype it's often wise to try to anticipate all possible contingencies. Those are a modified UPM hole pattern intended for trying a plate on the system. While the prospect is not completely out of the question, it has become less likely in light of this weeks testing.

[piusthedrcarve]

When you build a prototype it's often wise to try to anticipate all possible contingencies. Those are a modified UPM hole pattern intended for trying a plate on the system. While the prospect is not completely out of the question, it has become less likely in light of this weeks testing.

Thanks for the explanation.

When can we see the model and its spec. for sale?

[Donek]

Thanks for the explanation.

When can we see the model and its spec. for sale?

Give us a couple more weeks to be certain we've got everything where we want it.

[kieran]

Those are a modified UPM hole pattern intended for trying a plate on the system. While the prospect is not completely out of the question, it has become less likely in light of this weeks testing.

it could be an interesting way to mount a cambered carbon-fibre butterfly, or something modeled like the tongues on a rabanser GS plate, if you felt lacking in pop. Edited May 21, 2013 by kieran

[Hans]

it could be an interesting way to mount a cambered carbon-fibre butterfly, or something modeled like the tongues on a rabanser GS plate, if you felt lacking in pop.

If the wish is POP, out of these boards, then I would make them otherwise. The fun of small width boards is just jumping around with them, popping from one turn into the other.

I don't like small width boards which hardly don't have any rebound, are 100% in control and very easy to ride, there must be a certain tension, funfactor in these boards . Just my 2 cents

If you wish control , buy yourself a damp raceboard like Oxess GS, Kessler GS, SG GS and so on .

[Donek]

If the wish is POP, out of these boards, then I would make them otherwise. The fun of small width boards is just jumping around with them, popping from one turn into the other.

I don't like small width boards which hardly don't have any rebound, are 100% in control and very easy to ride, there must be a certain tension, funfactor in these boards . Just my 2 cents

If you wish control , buy yourself a damp raceboard like Oxess GS, Kessler GS, SG GS and so on .

Having spent a lot of time on GS boards in the last couple years, these seemed to have a lot of pop and energy to me. Making quick short turns, I found it very prone to wanting to catch a bit of air between turns.

[Hans]

Having spent a lot of time on GS boards in the last couple years, these seemed to have a lot of pop and energy to me. Making quick short turns, I found it very prone to wanting to catch a bit of air between turns.

I agree with you here about some brands. I had to be more secure in writing down ;). In general it is easier to jump around with a small springy width short radius board (without a plate), than with a fully plated GS board where you have more/about 6 kgs under your feet.

[kieran]

i was suggesting a add-on layer that would magnify the stored energy, not moderate it.