Powder sticks - help me choose

[skategoat]

Guys:

What would you rather ride in powder?

Prior 4WD

Burton Fish

Prior Pow-stick Swallowtail

I'm leaning towards the Fish due to the fact that it is better for riding in the trees. Is the Fish strictly a soft-boot board or can you ride hard boots on it?

Anyone know a good source for a 160 Fish?

Henry

[Mike T]

They seem to be a fave here as well; mine is still in the wrapper, just waiting for powder. I plan to try it with both softies and plates.

[philw]

Fish.

Swallowtails don't seem to work in the trees.

I ride my Fish exclusivly on hard boots. There's a bunch of images of this working on my site and one here...

Don't compromise: use decent boots & bindings.

You could also look at the Malolo/ Kyhber; I have a review of those to write somewhere. More of a compromise than the Fish.

[skategoat]

Sweeeet photo. What kind of angles do you ride on the Fish?

[utahcarver]

I'd go with the swallowtail...

One of the most overlooked reasons for using a swallowtail is a more forward (read: centered) stance on the board. Instead of a rider pushing snow with his stance (aka braking) a swallowtail trims out and rides more flat and will go faster and be more agile. Nothing against the Fish but, try using one on low angle powder runs and see if it compares to a longer powdergun like a swallowtail. I should also be more specific and state that a Winterstick Swallowtail has a very broad shoulder which gives it additional float in low angled runs.

With an effective edge around 153 something with an overall length of 185cm, the Winterstick Swallowtail can be very agile in trees, too. Sorry, not trying to promote Winterstick here, my example is what I have the most experience with.

Flamers welcome.

Mark

[JoelP]

It truly comes down to a matter of preference and where you are riding most of your time.

here is what I am getting at.

I own or owned the following: Rossi 198 Undertaker, Nitro Powder Gun 188 (Swallowtail), F2 Lancelot (FishTail) 172 and a Fish 156 HD. I sold the Rossi Undertaker because here in Colorado (Aspen) there is no need to go that fast, everything is to tight for it. I will sell the Nitro as soon as I can. I am keeping the F2 and the Fish BUT the Fish is now my board of choice for here. It simply is the most versatile of all the above boards. It goes in the trees better than the others and it goes just as well as the others on the groom stuff when I need to get to the next stash.

The Fish simply outturns the others and that works the best here. I can run tight lines along the trees and duck in whenever there is a shot to be had. I ride it with hard boots in the walk mode...very comfy and no problems.

My friend uses the Fish exclusively when he goes Heli boarding...I have yet to be able to afford that so I can not comment on snow conditions that deep. Here in CO it is super rare if we are getting a dump of 2+ feet at a time.

I am keeping the F2 because it is a fun board for when I am first on the hill and just want to go balls to the wall fast with very little turning. I have not had that oppurtunity to do that yet with the Fish to see how it handles.

So it really comes to preference and where you are riding. Guys love the Swallows in the big opens and bottomless stuff but my feeling is that I would still rather have the Fish over any of my Swallows. Maybe if I lived at LaGrave that would be different :-))

Do you want to buy a Nitro Powder Gun?????

Joel

[skategoat]

I ride mostly in the East where it is all below the treeline. No open bowls or fields. So, a tight turning board is preferable. Also, we get crowds and less skiable terrain. This translates into chopped up, tracked snow within a hour of a good dump. Also, our snow is not the champagne stuff found out West. Our "powder" is usually pretty heavy.

I'm thinking Fish is the way to go. I found a place online that sells close-out 2002/03 Fish 156HD for $200. But, it says the weight range tops out at 150lbs. Is this accurate?

[JoelP]

I ride the 156 HD and I weigh in at 163, it works perfect. My friend has a 160 and weighs in at 180.

If you riding chopped up stuff and tight trees you will not be disapointed in the Fish. It will put a smile on your face.

FYI, we both ride at 30/20 angles and 20" stance with hard boots.

$200 is a steal. Where is that? I'll buy another one.

Joel

[skategoat]

I found these guys using Froogle:

http://store.yahoo.com/emiliosskishop/bufi156hd.html

They are in NY. They also show that they carry Burton Speed boards. I'd be interested in hearing the price if you talk to them.

[Gtanner]

I just got back from a trip out to Whistler. The current conditions are marginal at best, but there is plenty of ice, moguls, hard-pack and slushy crud to test out the versatility of equipment.

I managed to get to demo a 4x4 for the few days I was up there and I must say WHAT A RIDE. The board chopped through everything in front of it (including powder). This is the ideal board for the type of wet/hard pack/cruddy snow that we see out here in the East. This board will do it all, so my suggestion is to not get a fish that you will use maybe once or twice a year out here, get the 4x4 that you can use any day.

-Gord

[Guest JohnSch]

Since it sounds like you want specifically a tight tree board, Fish, no question. This winter you may, in fact, only get a few days use out of it in terms of good tree riding, :(, but given the advantages the shape offers there it'll be well worth it.

4wd definitely a more versatile shape, but not really best suited for tight trees.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by skategoat

I found these guys using Froogle:

http://store.yahoo.com/emiliosskishop/bufi156hd.html

They are in NY. They also show that they carry Burton Speed boards. I'd be interested in hearing the price if you talk to them.

I've bought twice from them - a Fish for my wife and a pair of bidnings to go with it - very smooth transactions.

[Gecko]

has anyone had Donek/Coiler build a fish like board for plates...I know Prior has the Khyber, which looks like what Burton used as a template for the Fish. But like the Fish I'm pretty sure it's a soft boot board...a board of this nature would be perfect for terrain like Stowe's glades for instance

[philfell]

Burton Fish all the way. This board loves it in the trees, even the 156 gives plenty of float for all but the most hefty of fellows. This board is the best board I've been on in pow, and the size makes it weave in and out of the trees like no other board can.

[Mike T]

Originally posted by philfell

Burton Fish all the way. This board loves it in the trees, even the 156 gives plenty of float for all but the most hefty of fellows. This board is the best board I've been on in pow, and the size makes it weave in and out of the trees like no other board can.

Phil, just how hefty is too hefty for the 156? I'm 195 pounds...

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by Gecko

has anyone had Donek/Coiler build a fish like board for plates...I know Prior has the Khyber, which looks like what Burton used as a template for the Fish.

I'm pretty sure the Burton Fish came out before the Prior Khyber. I think this is the third season for the Fish and maybe the second season for the Khyber.

[philw]

Phil, just how hefty is too hefty for the 156? I'm 195 pounds...

I'm 62kgs/ 140lbs I think, but I'm an agressive little sod also. I used to ride 168 Supermodel-type boards off piste, and I ride 163 Slalom boards on it. So I think that you might want to try a 160 at much more than my weight. I know Ian D (RSS) tried a 156 and it was too short for him, and I'd guess he's about 200lbs or so.

Khyber I took one out (160) for a powder day last week so I can write some crap on them. As stated, their plan shape is identical to the Malolo. The nose is slightly different, and the camber/ flex are different but work pretty much the same I think. These are compromise boards: half way from Burton Canyon to Fish, if you see what I mean. All ridden by me on proper (hard) boots of course. I rode the Khyber mostly on glaciers, where it was ok and noticably faster to accelerate than the Fish. But, of course you can go as fast as you like with any board, so I'm not hugely fussed about accelleration etc. Summary: does what you'd expect, but that's not radical enough for me. Perhaps a board for people who hack on/off piste on the same board.

Swallows As someone said, they'll go faster on flat glaciers, which are places I don't spend much time. I think the reason that they're never seen at places like Wiegele's (heli) is that most runs are either all trees, or a mix of glacier, trees, and log cut. So whilst the swallowy thing will work in the open, you're stuffed lower down the mountain. The tree line in Europe is different, which may account for the different perceptions there. Tom Pfleger (SP?) I think still has the daily vertical record, which they got back in the day on a Nitro swallow I think. These days he rides... a Fish.

But it's all good: I hate conformity... that's why we're not all riding edgeless pipe boards.

[Mike T]

The 160's do seem mighty hard to find n the cheap, so it looks like I won't be risking an aurgument with the misses ;)

My first boards was a Supermodel 168, it was a fabulous first board because it was so easy to turn. It was passable but not great in the fluff at my weight... so I'll take that as a sign to get the Fish 160 if I ever do get a Fish.

[Guest JohnSch]

Mike,

The difference between the 156 and 160 is almost entirely flex, not float, as the surface area is for all intents the same. The 160 is, to me, stiffer than the 156HD on the basis of the completely unreliable flex in the shop test. However, at 195 riding the 156 HD without bogging down should be fine...where you'd notice less performance, imo is not on planing or "float" in powder so much as in a) groomed performance and b) funky snow. For instance, at your weight you'd be marginally more likely to collapse the shovel in breakable crust or grabby slush on the 156HD than on the 160.

I understand Phil's point on length, but Phil sounds like he charges and his friend no doubt does too. The above is written with soft boots in mind...charging in hard boots would tend to overpower the board a bit more. I understand this is a hardboot forum, but for the Fish people should also consider a medium stiff soft boot/binding combo (ie basically a supportive freestyle setup) with mellow angles, and work on drifting and sliding turns and overall playing around in addition to carving efficient arcs. The ability to do that if you want is one of the neat parts of the extreme taper.