davekempmeister Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 http://www.mountainridersalliance.com i don't know if this has been covered so, sorry if it's redundant. i like the initiative just as much as i like a hill with a hotel at the bottom (i have little kids). i do hope it gets traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 The video showed lift tickets at some resort for $116 a day, is that an average price for, I dunno, the Rockies? Either way that's insane. I think the most expensive lift ticket in the Alps is 45 euro for a one-day pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 The video showed lift tickets at some resort for $116 a day, is that an average price for, I dunno, the Rockies? Either way that's insane. I think the most expensive lift ticket in the Alps is 45 euro for a one-day pass. Yep ! From what i've seen of the eco movement green means more $$$$$ ( im thinking prius Vs ----- ?) $50.00 for a 300 foot hill someone translate that for me to a 2500 foot mt. $93. for a mt. day pass is pricey but $50 for a 300 foot bump is robbery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted December 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 $116 would have to be the highest (not average) price they could find for illustrative purposes. i won't speculate exactly where that is but several are at $100 per day, +/- a few bucks. litigation/insurance factors as heavily as anything, right? i've always assumed this to be the difference between US ticket prices and EU ticket prices. maybe i'm wrong but the Euro's legal framework allows less frivolity/creativity with plaintiff's claims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) For me, the use of the "insurance/litigation/frivolous lawsuits" argument by US businesses to justify the extremely high costs of medical insurance or in this case life tickets (hypothetically, since we're speculating why lift tickets cost so much in the US) has for me always been a huge scam. I can agree that the punitive damages awarded in the US are far far higher than in the EU, but I still can't see that being the cause for a service costing two to three times more than in Europe. For me, it's rampant greed. I looked around and found that probably the most expensive life tickets reigns in Zermatt at 62 euro for a one day pass. But that's in Switzerland, so it doesn't really mean much. For better comparison in terms of EU vs. US, I think the most expensive lift tickets is at Les 3 Vallees at 53 euro a day and then 50 euro for the Dolomiti Superski Pass. But these lift tickets are for resorts that have something like 400 miles.. that's miles.. of linked ski slopes. Mind you, you can easily chill out at some of the smaller Alpine resorts for 30e a day, and in my neck of the woods (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia) 20-25 euro max. Edited December 23, 2012 by michael.a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Those high prices are the walk-up pricing. Vail is at $129, Aspen is $119. You save $20 or more by ordering online before coming. Multi-day tickets save you even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 The best way to do Vail or any of their other properties is the Epic pass.I'm seriously considering that option for a planned visit to see lots of good friends for a couple of different weeks next season.Should have done it this season,but the snow up here is too good to leave;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 This is how most ski areas started out in the 40's and 50's before they became owned by big corporations. Built and run by skiers and mountain enthusiasts. Of course, since they weren't businessmen, they often went belly up with a couple of bad snow years. It seems that since most ski areas are developed on our government forest land that they should not be allowed to focus so much on maximizing profits by catering to an affluent elite at the expense of pricing access to the mountain out of reach for the average person. Mt Abram sounds great! I like the idea of community based areas. We have a couple of ski areas in Minnesota, Giants Ridge and Spirit Mt, that I believe are owned or run by the state (GR) and city (Spirit). They have the most affordable lift ticket prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 i went to copper in the past few weeks as well as loveland and arapahoe. i sometimes hike to the top of pico in vt via the appalachian trail, patronize the only ski hill in my home state of md (mom and pop by comparison) and i board on the 2 acre slope in my back yard. i like all of the experiences, to be sure. the business of operating on public land should have inclusiveness as part of it's mission and values, not be de facto owners. i'm sure i'm part of the problem despite whatever awareness. i'm fully addicted and will pay for the fix. all things being equal, if i had to discover snow sports today in the way that i did as a teenager from md in the 80's, it'd be prohibitively expensive and maybe i never would have this beautiful thing in my life. there are many sides to this, not least of which all who are employed and the resulting community, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Those high prices are the walk-up pricing. Vail is at $129, Aspen is $119. You save $20 or more by ordering online before coming. Multi-day tickets save you even more. Jim, I specifically mentioned only normally-priced single day tickets to provide a somewhat standardized base for comparison. If I were also to factor in multi-day passes or other deals offered by EU resorts than I think your hair would stand on end. I can snowboard for free in some resorts as long as I book accommodation for a minimum of four nights, or also get up to 30% off when booking from the resort's website. At other places, when going with a group, every upteenth ski pass (eighth or tenth) is for free. And deals through travel agencies? My god, for $400-500 you can spend a nice week in any number of resorts in the Italian alps. Downhill alpine sports are naturally expensive and really something open to only affluent whites, but my god, $100 a day... one day.. for a lift ticket? Or 50 to 80 bucks for some lower tier resort with aging lifts and poor grooming? Jim, that is really really really really expensive, even for European standards. Like Dave said above, I probably wouldn't be able to afford this sport at these prices if I were in my teens/early 20s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 But how long are the lift lines? How fast does the terrain get destroyed? For what you pay in Aspen, to have zero lift lines today on Christmas with 8" of fresh blower pow that was awesome until 11:30, I really don't think is that bad. Ideal, no, but not that bad. I can't speak to any other place that charges these prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 For me, the use of the "insurance/litigation/frivolous lawsuits" argument by US businesses to justify the extremely high costs of medical insurance or in this case life tickets (hypothetically, since we're speculating why lift tickets cost so much in the US) has for me always been a huge scam. I can agree that the punitive damages awarded in the US are far far higher than in the EU, but I still can't see that being the cause for a service costing two to three times more than in Europe. For me, it's rampant greed. I looked around and found that probably the most expensive life tickets reigns in Zermatt at 62 euro for a one day pass. But that's in Switzerland, so it doesn't really mean much. For better comparison in terms of EU vs. US, I think the most expensive lift tickets is at Les 3 Vallees at 53 euro a day and then 50 euro for the Dolomiti Superski Pass. But these lift tickets are for resorts that have something like 400 miles.. that's miles.. of linked ski slopes. Mind you, you can easily chill out at some of the smaller Alpine resorts for 30e a day, and in my neck of the woods (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia) 20-25 euro max. I think there is more than one component to increasing prices everywhere in the U.S. One is absolutely law suits. The awards that are given for basically minor inconveniences are outrageous! Another is corporate greed of which we should all be painfully aware. The one that most people don't think much about, by design (our gov't taxes us through the back door with it) is paper currency creation...Devaluation of the dollar... The value of gold in USD in 2004 was $409...Now it's $1650. Gold hasn't increased in value in that span of time...The dollar has been devalued that much...You really should write your congressmen and senators and thank them for that...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) But how long are the lift lines? How fast does the terrain get destroyed? For what you pay in Aspen, to have zero lift lines today on Christmas with 8" of fresh blower pow that was awesome until 11:30, I really don't think is that bad. Ideal, no, but not that bad. I can't speak to any other place that charges these prices. Those are really general concepts. I could also ask you how good is the grooming, how good is the snow throughout the season or how good is the wine and cheese. But on the whole zero or minor lift lines and perfect grooming. The main "connecting" slopes are pretty bad shape by the end of the day, but the rest are pretty much deserted to ride on at any time of the year 'cept for the February skiing holiday period. Btw, could you show me a trail map of "Aspen" and what's covered under a single lift ticket as I'm not sure what we're comparing. Here's a map of "Les 3 Vallees", I think it's about 300 miles of connected ski slopes using one ski pass. The Dolomiti Superski pass covers about 800 miles of ski slopes, 200 miles connected by lifts while the rest spread around different mountains so I guess that would be pretty much the entire Rocky Mts. I've never been to Zermatt so I won't include it, even though we're comparing the "most expensive". is paper currency creation...Devaluation of the dollar... The value of gold in USD in 2004 was $409...Now it's $1650. Gold hasn't increased in value in that span of time...The dollar has been devalued that much...You really should write your congressmen and senators and thank them for that...;) ?????? What does the devaluation of the US dollar have to do with the inner economic workings of... lift ticket prices? Then again I don't know what you're complaining about, the US has the cheapest yet best quality in terms of clothing, electronics and other consumer goods, as well as having cheap cars and really cheap gas. Edited December 25, 2012 by michael.a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 (edited) Those are really general concepts. I could also ask you how good is the grooming, how good is the snow throughout the season or how good is the wine and cheese. But on the whole zero or minor lift lines and perfect grooming. The main "connecting" slopes are pretty bad shape by the end of the day, but the rest are pretty much deserted to ride on at any time of the year 'cept for the February skiing holiday period.Btw, could you show me a trail map of "Aspen" and what's covered under a single lift ticket as I'm not sure what we're comparing. Here's a map of "Les 3 Vallees", I think it's about 300 miles of connected ski slopes using one ski pass. The Dolomiti Superski pass covers about 800 miles of ski slopes, 200 miles connected by lifts while the rest spread around different mountains so I guess that would be pretty much the entire Rocky Mts. I've never been to Zermatt so I won't include it, even though we're comparing the "most expensive". http://images.skiresorts-test.com/skigebiete/600/les-3-vallees_trail_map_l1.jpg[/i ?????? What does the devaluation of the US dollar have to do with the inner economic workings of... lift ticket prices? Then again I don't know what you're complaining about, the US has the cheapest yet best quality in terms of clothing, electronics and other consumer goods, as well as having cheap cars and really cheap gas. I'm assuming you're kidding...Everything you buy has to do with the devaluation of the USD. That's what causes inflation and increasing prices, more dollars chasing the same amount of goods...Have you been to the supermarket in the last few years? Cheap goods are a result of Free Trade agreements that drive jobs offshore. Our industries are having the pants beat off them by Chinese goods and rather than try to compete, which they can't do, they move the industry, and the jobs there. Then we import cheap goods and run up a negative trade balance. In order to maintain our standard of living (to a degree), we borrow from those countries that have taken our industry (namely China). Then we print more money and the prices of everything go up, including lift tickets... Try to buy something that's not made abroad...The car company that you and I bailed out will be making 70% of their cars in China and you'll be looking for a job in the service industry making $12/hr. You can thank your legislators for the demise of Glass/Stegal and the consequent too big to fail investment banks who nearly caused the total economic collapse of 2008, the suspension of the gold standard and the undermining of your rights and freedoms in the name of The Patriot Act and, more recently the Grounds And Improvement Act of our present auction winner... Anyway, I'm done ranting... Lift ticket prices along with everything else are higher and will go higher in large part because of irresponsible gov't policy... I really do hope you were kidding... I'm saying this based on your location (New Jersey, U.S.) but see your home mountain is Stuttgart. If you're not a U.S. citizen, I take back the you're kidding part. Every U.S. citizen should make themselves aware of policy effects...If not a citizen, well, understood... Edited December 26, 2012 by glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted December 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 lift ticket prices climb higher in keeping with what the market will sustain. the price of the product is no more left to chance than the maintenance of the lifts, etc. they know the numbers and their clientele and price accordingly because they can. i tend to agree with Jim Callen's statement about the worth and quality of the experience and that it should factor in the discussion. particularly if a given resort delivers that experience reliably and it's a known quantity. i'm ambivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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