Head boot modifications

[John E]

I know there have been several threads on how-to modify Head Stratos Pro boots to make them more flexible. I did a search and wasn't able to find these threads.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

[redia]

http://carvingspot.free.fr/download/montage_ACSS_en.pdf

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?6008-Head-Stratos-Pro

Edited October 12, 2012 by redia

[John E]

Thanks for the links!

[jp1]

John E, I know there was a lot more information here but could not find it :( either.

Seems to be a gap between 4-2012 and 8-2005 missing !?

I've done a few pairs, email me if you have any questions, I may be able to help.

Things are looking good @ Lovey !!

Take Care --jp1

[zoltan]

This is what I did to mine:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?33770-Another-way-to-soften-Head-boots-flex

However, you need to be running a BTS or similar device for this to work.

[SunSurfer]

I think there is a different key to unlocking the fore & aft flex in the Head Stratos Pro.

I was looking at my own pair and realised that the mount point for the 3rd buckle (the one across the front of the ankle) goes through both the cuff and the shell. Combined with the pivot point/cant adjuster on the same side this produces a 2 point fixation of shell and cuff. This prevents the cuff from rotating properly around the ankle pivot. The original design could only work if the mount point was designed to slide on the surface of the cuff. It's not.

The third buckle is held in place by a single approx 5mm countersunk machine screw into a T-nut in the shell.

The Cant adjuster is held by an almost identical machine screw, which has had it's end crimped to prevent it coming completely undone.

I have now mounted my 3rd buckle over the Cant adjuster using the original machine screw and secured with blue Lock-Tite, so that now there is only a single point holding the lateral cuff and shell together.

And now the cuff rotates much more easily and the BTS is the flex control. The shell does not deform nearly as much as it did previously.

And the 3rd buckle now holds down the front of my ankle slightly lower than it previously did.

This has only been carpet carved so far. I won't be on the snow till I hit Aspen for SES in Feb 2013.

If anyone tries this out on snow before then I'd love to hear their report.

SunSurfer

Edited November 11, 2012 by SunSurfer
correct typos

[lowrider]

Better put a patent on that idea someone else is going to claim they thought of it first. Interesting what carpet carving can do to influence creative thought. Going to do some tinkering on my boots soon now that i have a plate perfected that allows me to peddle as i ride (oops ! i hope i haven't infringed on Sean's Patent)

[jp1]

SunSurfer, a couple of things. I'm in no way putting this approach down, if it works for you go for it, but I personally do not agree with the following statement.

"This prevents the cuff from rotating properly around the ankle pivot. The original design could only work if the mount point was designed to slide on the surface of the cuff. It's not."

I've done a few pairs of HSP's and I believe that this buckle was designed to slide on the surface of the cuff (as indicated by the scuff marks on the cuff) and also to retain the cuff to the boot shell.

I would be concerned that in the full forward position the slot in the cuff will hit the boss on the boot shell (where the strap was originally) and 'pop' up over it, possibly causing a bad situation. Have someone watch when fully flexed forward. I say this because this is one part of the Mods., to open up the slot (towards the rear) to avoid this interferance.

If you had interferance here, it was probably because their was not enough clearance or the back of the buckle is rough or sharp digging into the cuff.

This buckle has a pressed /rolled rib around the outside edge of it that is often sharp and digs into the plastic of the cuff.

I sand off and radiused that edge and polished the backs of buckles. I've also added shims on some boots (as they are all a little different) to get the proper stack height to get clearance for a smooth action with good results.

Also keep in mind, it is common on HSP's (specially after boot is modified, since you now have more and an easier/ smoother flex) for the 2nd and the 3rd buckles / straps to hit each other and thus interfere / bind in the forward flex position. I trim the bottoms of the straps of the 3rd buckle for clearance & if needed the tops of the straps on the 2nd buckle.

With the 3rd buckle moved lower, I'm thinking the interferance will be sooner / greater. You can see in your picture even in the static position that the 2nd and 3rd buckle straps are very close.

But then again, maybe not as the pivot point is different, but check it out.

Have you done any of the other Mods. (the cutting)? If you really noticed that much difference in moving this buckle strap, you may want to seriously consider doing the Mods.

Do you have the Orange / Yellow (softer) tongues ? They alone will make will make a big difference over the Silver (stiffest) tongues.

If you have them, throw them in and check it out !

"And now the cuff rotates much more easily and the BTS is the flex control."

Agreed 100%, free up the boot and control forward flex with the BTS (Boot Tuning System)!

The BTS will actually be a better tuning system with the Modifications done and the boot freed up.

I compare it to the suspension on a car. You can spend thousands on Adjustable shocks, Trick springs, Sway bars, Tie bars, Wheels, Tires & whatever, but if your Ball joints and / or A-arm bushings are bad / bound up, you just wasted a ton of money.

Just trying to help / JMO -- jp1

[SunSurfer]

SunSurfer, a couple of things. I'm in no way putting this approach down, if it works for you go for it, but I personally do not agree with the following statement.

"This prevents the cuff from rotating properly around the ankle pivot. The original design could only work if the mount point was designed to slide on the surface of the cuff. It's not."

I've done a few pairs of HSP's and I believe that this buckle was designed to slide on the surface of the cuff (as indicated by the scuff marks on the cuff) and also to retain the cuff to the boot shell.

I would be concerned that in the full forward position the slot in the cuff will hit the boss on the boot shell (where the strap was originally) and 'pop' up over it, possibly causing a bad situation. Have someone watch when fully flexed forward. I say this because this is one part of the Mods., to open up the slot (towards the rear) to avoid this interferance.

If you had interferance here, it was probably because their was not enough clearance or the back of the buckle is rough or sharp digging into the cuff.

This buckle has a pressed /rolled rib around the outside edge of it that is often sharp and digs into the plastic of the cuff.

I sand off and radiused that edge and polished the backs of buckles. I've also added shims on some boots (as they are all a little different) to get the proper stack height to get clearance for a smooth action with good results.

Also keep in mind, it is common on HSP's (specially after boot is modified, since you now have more and an easier/ smoother flex) for the 2nd and the 3rd buckles / straps to hit each other and thus interfere / bind in the forward flex position. I trim the bottoms of the straps of the 3rd buckle for clearance & if needed the tops of the straps on the 2nd buckle.

With the 3rd buckle moved lower, I'm thinking the interferance will be sooner / greater. You can see in your picture even in the static position that the 2nd and 3rd buckle straps are very close.

But then again, maybe not as the pivot point is different, but check it out.

Have you done any of the other Mods. (the cutting)? If you really noticed that much difference in moving this buckle strap, you may want to seriously consider doing the Mods.

Do you have the Orange / Yellow (softer) tongues ? They alone will make will make a big difference over the Silver (stiffest) tongues.

If you have them, throw them in and check it out !

"And now the cuff rotates much more easily and the BTS is the flex control."

Agreed 100%, free up the boot and control forward flex with the BTS (Boot Tuning System)!

The BTS will actually be a better tuning system with the Modifications done and the boot freed up.

I compare it to the suspension on a car. You can spend thousands on Adjustable shocks, Trick springs, Sway bars, Tie bars, Wheels, Tires & whatever, but if your Ball joints and / or A-arm bushings are bad / bound up, you just wasted a ton of money.

Just trying to help / JMO -- jp1

Thanks for the comment.

Read the other mod threads both here and elsewhere, have made some of the cutting mods, and have currently got an orange tongue in my rear boot and a grey in my front.

Looking at the marks left by the buckle on the cuff I can't see any evidence of significant movement of cuff beneath the buckle during flexing the cuff forward in actual use.

I can only see marks left by the previous owner when he had a different cant setting.

From what I can see, freeing up the rotation of the cuff on the lateral side of the boot is likely to produce significant fore & flex independent of any cuts made to the shell.

Because the 3rd strap is effectively only attached to the shell now, and its attachment point does NOT move when the boot flexes forward, the 2nd & 3rd strap should not move significantly relative to each other when the boot flexes. Even if they do the cuff and tongue will still flex forward over the 3rd strap.

I've tried flexing forward in the boot and there is no impingement problem with the old buckle site boss that I've been able to feel or see. If moving the buckle attachment is successful, then the old buckle boss is superfluous and could be removed if the owner desired.

As I said before, I've only carpet carved this mod. I won't be seeing snow till February since it's spring here in New Zealand. I've not seen this way of thinking about the HSP flex issue described before.

If anyone else decides to try this before February I'd love to hear how it went.

SunSurfer

[jacopodotti]

http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1034