Ibuprofen?

[MozzMann]

I try to stay as fit as possible, and S T R E C H well before hitting the slope.

Keeping yourself Hydrated will help a lot,

Mineral supliments are supposedly good but I prefer just plain water with maybe a touce of Juice added .

Keep the blood shugars up by eating regularly and have a good feed for breackfast like containing plenty of complex carbo's , and suppliment this with thinks like MAR's or Muslie Bars etc.

I'm an old fart at 45 and don't bounce as well as I used to but you young pups aint gunna have all the fun... RIGHT :)

Mozz

[FTA2R]

Ray,

some things you said raise a flag to me.

if I don’t train every day for some time"

don't know your routine, but every day may be a bit much unless you're a competitve lifter. rest is a primary component necessary for muscle growth and/or recooperation.

get so sore, I can’t even hug my wife without crying like a little baby

that doesn't sound right. Have you seen ever seen a dr. or sports doctor about this? I assume your technique is OK and you're not lifting too much, and you warm up/strectch properly (so many dont, though)

Might wanna check out Arnold's "encyclopedia of bodybuilding," gives some good explanations, including a section of muscle soreness vs. injury (believe it also talks about symptoms, etc). Here's an excerpt I just found (which I'm pretty sure Arnold also mentioned in his book): " Since cardio exercise enhances circulation and oxidation of toxic compounds, your body rids itself of post workout lactic acid more quickly when you do regular cardio"

another possiblity is very tight boots applying pressure to the legs at certan points. A few times last year I had some minor marks/brusing from that, specifically right where the cuff begins.

so you can try a number of things: seeking professional help (trainers, drs., etc), lifting less, changing your routine (including warmup /stretching/cardio), going easy on yourself the first day (might be able to ride super hard the next days, or just taking a break b/w days)

listen to your body....esp as there may be a genuine medical explanation (meaning you may have some kind of irregularity).

good luck

[Kent]

Originally posted by MozzMann

S T R E C H well before hitting the slope.

I assume you mean stretch. If so....you're only increasing your risk of injury. Only stretch a warm muscle......

[MozzMann]

Yes Kent your are correct , I did misspell it and true warm up before hand , Isorta took that as read .

Mozz

[FTA2R]

Kent,

you can do a "basic light stretch" for a cold muscle right?

as opposed to a more strenuos stretch designed to increase flexibility...and I read that walking with your equipment from the parking lot could be considered a warmup, which I partially agree with (depending on circumstances). traditional warm up exercises obvoiusly aren't pratical at most resorts.

Your thoughts?

Barry

[Bobby Buggs]

Food for thought, Check out http://www.evilsports.com/store/view_product.php?product=ESEEPB2 or http://www.evilsports.com/store/view_product.php?product=ESEEOR1

For some food on the run

[Kent]

You can do a light stretch, but it's not doing anything.....although may be a bit of mental stimulation. (Like ski racers keeping warm by moving legs back and forth) Potential to do more harm than good.

You're better off taking a "slow" trip down the hill than stretch.....

For years, people would go back and forth on the benefits of stretching, but lately nearly article will say it's a waste of time before.....

Then again, you could probably find a journal or article to justify any position.

Although, I do find a reverse stretch to help before long bike rides (bend backward while butt-up against a counter top), but a Chiro told me this is more about spine alignment than muscle flexibility...

[Gecko]

One of the greats of Pool Skating, SAlba is religious about his warm ups often doing sets of pushup, squats, stretching etc before his first drop-in...I usually do a bit of Yoga (Sun Salutations) before I skate. This became my habit after numerous early Sat AM sesions with Jay in Honolulu...as much to wake me up as to limber me up...same for Snowboarding though it's harder in boots

[Ray]

Barry,

Little bit more background.

Started BMXing with 16, raced semi-professional for many years, added weight training at the same time…when I was done with BMXing, I kept the weight training and went to a very advanced level. After moving from Europe to LA, trained at Gold’s in Venice with several of the Pro bodybuilders and actually even helped some of them with their contest preparation/diet. I know Arnolds books (actually know him for 15 years now, but that’s a different topic). So that is also why I am getting a little frustrated. I think I know a little bit about training and nutrition, but can’t figure out what happened. What I mean with what “happened” is, that this thing (getting so sore) happened over the last years…actually I think it began when I started my new job 6 years ago where I sit 10 hours a day. I guess that just messed up my entire system. From Mr. all day active to Mr. sitting 10 hours a day and go to the gym to get a quick 45min workout done…

When I said that I get so sore in my pecs, that is after a break and than going back to the gym and doing a full chest workout, you know, 4 different exercises, 4 sets each… back in the old day, I just got sore, now it feels almost like inflamed.

I don’t want to blame it on age (just yet). What should I say, I am 37 and when I look at our older fellow riders here, I better be quite.

Hey Tim (Tuthill) you are 60+ now, how are you doing in regards to all this? Any soreness? Please tell me that you entire body hurts like crazy after a day of hard riding ;)

Totally forgot to ask you this morning when you called.

Ray

[FTA2R]

Gold’s in Venice with several of the Pro bodybuilders and actually even helped some of them with their contest preparation/diet. I know Arnolds books (actually know him for 15 years now, but that’s a different topic).

LOL, I was under the impression you were a casual or semi serious lifter. Obviously you are way beyond that and I'm sure you're well aware of anything I may have to contribute re: this. hope your pain goes away, but let us know what the findings are if you decide to see a doc (if you don't mind)

good luck,

Barry

[Ray]

Originally posted by Barry

Gold’s in Venice with several of the Pro bodybuilders and actually even helped some of them with their contest preparation/diet. I know Arnolds books (actually know him for 15 years now, but that’s a different topic).

LOL, I was under the impression you were a casual or semi serious lifter. Obviously you are way beyond that and I'm sure you're well aware of anything I may have to contribute re: this. hope your pain goes away, but let us know what the findings are if you decide to see a doc (if you don't mind)

good luck,

Barry

Hey, I am a casual now, that was about 12 years ago.

Over all the years, I lost most of those hard gained muscles :(

What's'left now is just theory...

[DrCR]

Yeah. Dust we are and to dust we will return.

I'm still young at 21 (though in some aspects I can see how I don't quite have the energy I used too, but still lots of it). I'm also a college student and computer dude (part time) which means I'm sitting at a desk usually 12+ hours a day. And then I'll arbitrarily run a 6" mile or something around once a month when I get the urge to do something physically active. I used to be forced into good condition one a year for soccer season, but I gave that up after my freshman year at the uni dude to grades (being a pure science major really offers you no life). I better develop some habits really quick, otherwise this laissez-faire approach to fitness will catch up with me…

[Jon Dahl]

about your pain issues, you mentioned two specific things. One, both outer calf muscles. Wonder if some binding setup issues are cropping up here. You may need to play with canting some. Two, you're feet are sore. Too tense? Boot fit issues? Just tossing out some thoughts here, maybe you've thought of or maybe not. BTW, I'm 47 and rode at SES last year. Got very tired at the end but very little soreness. I'm not a workout freak, but I'm on my feet all day (auto tech) and just a weekend warrior.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jon Dahl

about your pain issues, you mentioned two specific things. One, both outer calf muscles. Wonder if some binding setup issues are cropping up here. You may need to play with canting some. Two, you're feet are sore. Too tense? Boot fit issues? Just tossing out some thoughts here, maybe you've thought of or maybe not. BTW, I'm 47 and rode at SES last year. Got very tired at the end but very little soreness. I'm not a workout freak, but I'm on my feet all day (auto tech) and just a weekend warrior.

Hi Jon,

Last season, I thought the same and tried almost all different ways of cant & boot combos, nothing did improve this issue, not even a bit. That was also the reason why I had so much stuff for sale. Only thing I learned was that I like the softer binding set-up the most.

What I did not do, is to narrow my stance to much. I really like a relative wider stance… I am 5’7 and use about 18.2. That is not really extreme, but for my height pretty decent I think.

The soreness is mostly on my front foot. The foot I use most to control… The thing is when I start riding I immediately feel how my toes and heels put pressure on the edges. I control the edge pressure a lot with toe/heel pressure…

Another thing is, if I ride under “perfect” conditions, so the perfect groomed stuff with good “fresher” hard packed snow, these issues are almost not given. Last year at the SES, no real big issues at all due to the great conditions we had. The worse the conditions, the choppier it is, the more work, the more soreness.

The saying, “ride hard when the snow is soft, ride soft when the snow is hard”, maybe might apply in my case as well.

[Jon Dahl]

I just can't place the face. My bad. I ride 19.5 plus or minus, and I'm 5'7" also 155-160 lbs depending on how good the food has been lately. I tend to ride "soft" not using a lot of excessive movement (mostly!) Also use 3 degree cants ( td2) front and rear. Overall soreness after a hard day, but usually no big spots that stand out. Maybe psr or someone w/coaching experience should chime in here! I assume you've tried footbeds? Pronating feet caused me the most pain over the years.

[Ray]

But we met so many ;)

Next time we make sure!

See, you are my size and ride even with a little wider stance...it's not the stance...

Yes, I have the Superfeet Corks. Don't really know if there is something better which could make a difference.

Would be great to get some feedback from a coach, or someone who has a similar problem.

Ray

[D-Sub]

CoQ10? Isnt that supposed to help with blood flow and oxygenation? maybe that would help?

I hardly ever take ANY drugs whatsoever, except Cascade Lakes and Deschutes beers now cuz theyre GOOD!

I just figure the soreness is part of the whole package. Never had it so bad as Ray is describing tho. definitely need to find a way around that!

[Ernie00]

I've taken ice / cold baths after riding sometimes. it's a pain but it does wonder for the next day. When you are on a 5 day trip you don't have to luxury to take a day off !

[Ray]

Wow! Have to read all this in the AM...

[tufty]

I was stunned that people get addicted to Vicodin and other painkillers. I just don't get it. I don't get any kind of high from them - they just help kill the pain in my knees. If you want to abuse an illegal drug, stick to marijuana. You'll get stupid and fall asleep, but at least you won't get truly addicted (IMO) and you won't be belligerent nor will you have a hangover.

Addiction doesn't imply illegality, nor enjoyment. It's a chemical change to your brain function. It's perfectly possible to become physically addicted to painkillers without ever getting any kind of "high" from them.

From http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/understand.html

Drugs are chemicals that tap into the brain’s communication system and disrupt the way nerve cells normally send, receive, and process information. There are at least two ways that drugs are able to do this: (1) by imitating the brain’s natural chemical messengers, and/or (2) by overstimulating the “reward circuit” of the brain.

...

Long-term abuse causes changes in other brain chemical systems and circuits as well. Glutamate is a neurotransmitter that influences the reward circuit and the ability to learn. When the optimal concentration of glutamate is altered by drug abuse, the brain attempts to compensate, which can impair cognitive function. Drugs of abuse facilitate nonconscious (conditioned) learning, which leads the user to experience uncontrollable cravings when they see a place or person they associate with the drug experience, even when the drug itself is not available. Brain imaging studies of drug-addicted individuals show changes in areas of the brain that are critical to judgment, decisionmaking, learning and memory, and behavior control. Together, these changes can drive an abuser to seek out and take drugs compulsively despite adverse consequences—in other words, to become addicted to drugs.

Whilst the above is largely talking about "illegal" drugs, the same is true of many legal substances, from prescription painkillers through alcohol (possibly one of the most widespread and destructive drugs out there) and nicotine.

Addiction doesn't necessarily mean a life "on the fringe" or dying by overdose, either; a large proportion of those who came home from WW1, specifically after battlefield surgery, came home with a lifelong heroin addiction. They were given, in the UK at least, pharm-grade heroin, and managed to hold down responsible jobs. My grandfather was one of these, coming home aged 19 with an addiction; he eventually passed away aged 92. Whilst he was quite old when I knew him, I certainly don't remember him going out knifecriming people for his fix, or shooting up with a rusty needle in some ****-filled back alley. Perhaps he kept that covered up, though.

Personally, I take as few painkillers (or anything) as humanly possible, restricting their use to actual injury. What I can vouch for, as a hockey player, is the efficacity of keeping yourself well hydrated as a way of avoiding muscle pain after exertion. Taking painkillers to mask the effects of self-inflicted dehydration seems like a very good way of causing serious and potentially long term harm, at least to me.

Yeah, tl;dr.

[leeho730]

For me, losing 5 kilos (11 lb) was way more effective than 20 doses of neurofen...