Missing the gates?

[Harmless]

I started running some GS courses today, and im over shooting some of the gates. The first 3 gates are fine but the instant i hit the 4th-5th gate, i cant carve through it and i totally lose it. It almost feels at if im entering the turn to fast.

Im totally lost and would love all the help i can get.

Thanks

[Guest]

Don't carve it.

[ncermak]

Jim is right, Don't be afraid to skid a few turns to keep on line. also, make sure that you are turning early. you should be completing your turn as you pass the gate, not starting it. finally, look ahead, not just off your nose, you should be looking 1-2 gates ahead...

remember, racing is about finishing. doesn't matter how you get there or how you look...just get there as quick as possible.

[queequeg]

I started running some GS courses today, and im over shooting some of the gates. The first 3 gates are fine but the instant i hit the 4th-5th gate, i cant carve through it and i totally lose it. It almost feels at if im entering the turn to fast.

Im totally lost and would love all the help i can get.

Thanks

I tried racing for the first time last weekend. Boy did I suck!!! Being a decent carver does not mean you are going to be any good at racing, that's for sure. Everyone told me not to carve through the gates, so I didn't but I also ended up with the brakes on the whole time as a result, and so my times were really slow. Still fun though!

[bjvircks]

I'm guessing you've got snowboard gates and not ski gates. I race in a beer league that is almost exclusivly skiers and we use ski gates. There are a couple other boarders on soft gear that show up once in a while. I run the course with both my skis and my Prior AWD. It is really weird running the same course so very differently. The skiers rut the course a certain way that makes it very difficult for me on the board. To stay safe I'm skidding a bunch more than I would otherwise, and going very wide so I don't catch the poles in my face or chest. My times suck as I never really dial in either way... but I tell everyone I'm having twice as much fun running each course twice.

[scrutton]

you should be completing your turn as you pass the gate

+1 on that. It's surprising how early you should be turning, and I think you should be thinking about getting on your new edge way early, near the exit from the previous gate. I think that's what I was told near the end of last season anyhow.

[Harmless]

when i was racing, i would finish the turn right after the gate and begin the next turn about half way to the next gate

if you skid into the turns, wont you lose all your speed? and the speed you are losing from skid, how do you get it back so fast?

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

when i was racing, i would finish the turn right after the gate and begin the next turn about half way to the next gate

if you skid into the turns, wont you lose all your speed? and the speed you are losing from skid, how do you get it back so fast?

Although you scrub speed with the skid, you gain it back by traveling a shorter distance... You are also able to keep the board pointed down the fall line, so you aren't fighting gravity either...

[queequeg]

when i was racing, i would finish the turn right after the gate and begin the next turn about half way to the next gate

if you skid into the turns, wont you lose all your speed? and the speed you are losing from skid, how do you get it back so fast?

I had this problem when I tried it, and my times were slower than mollasses in january. The racers who I watched that seemed to do well (errr ... pretty much everyone but me), did some skidding, but also did plenty of carving as well ... seems to me like there is a mix, and that it probably takes some practice to get it right. I had a pretty good idea of where I needed to initiate/finish my turns so I kept on track for the most part, (although I did go pretty wide on one gate in particular), but I think I was so focused on that part of things that I didn't do such a great job of actually riding fast through the course.

It seems to me that from what I've seen, plenty of the skidding that occurrs on a race course is the riders putting the brakes on in terms of side to side motion, so that they aren't actually hindering their downhill progress but rather, preparing to exit their turns. It also seems to me that a lot of racers exit their turns carving, even if if they start them skidding. That midweighting video sheds a lot of light on this to my mind. Other people on this forum can probably provide you with MUCH better guidance, but I thought I would share my thoughts as a fellow noob :-p . Going into my first race I thought I was going to concentrate on executing that sort of turn, but just getting through the course without screwing up (on my first few runs of the season) proved challenging enough without adding that to the mix. I want to try it again for sure.

[kipstar]

I haven't done a lot of racing, but this is what I remember.

To finish, first you need to get round all the gates

For each turn, the aim is to exit on the right line in the right body position with the highest possible speed which sets you up correctly for the next gate; this may mean doing a slow in fast out turn (which ideally means you scrub the speed at the beginning and then exit with as much speed as possible, not the other way around).

So a lot of the drills racers run (from my limited experience) seem to involve learning how to find that good line which is often not the rut line particularly if they are skiers, and also learning how to ride in a nice centred position so your centre of gravity is more over the edge than out laid out carving style, learning how to change edges with different timing (so as to match the course rather than matching what you feel is the time to be ready of changing to the edge), learning to skid into a turn then carve out the other side, learning to skid round an entire turn without scrubbing tons of speed, learning when to use which kind of turn, learning how to 'read' a course before you race it.

To be honest, much of what I was taught is more than a decade out of date now, but I do remember that practice definitely helps. I think most novices ilke me tend to start their turns way too late and try to carry too much speed from attempting to carve every turn; not doing that especially if the top of the course was steep helped me finish a bunch more courses and also avoid going late into gates.

There's a great video of Thedo Remmelink somewhere on youtube that explains the skid into a carve type turn that is used a lot on steep and tricky sections.

The carving bit becomes really key in the flatter sections of the course as you can hold a ton more speed sometimes; that was the only thing I did well enough to win a couple of races against other idiots of my skill level :-)

[Marco]

It sounds like you are late on each turn. After three or four gates, this adds up and then you are too late to round the gate. You can practice all you want, but if you don't figure out why you are late, you won't resolve the problem.

Without seeing a video, you could be late because:

1) Simple inexperience. Not knowing when to initiate a turn and when to shape the turn. Look at this image:

http://icechewing.huddler.com/imgrepo/thumbs/b/bf/gs%20gate%20timing.jpg/1000x800px-LL-gs%20gate%20timing.jpg

a) You must engage your new edge above the gate at the rise line.

b) You have to pressure the board as you enter the fall line. How much? Depends on the shape of the turn you need.

2) Your technique is suited to locking an edge into a carve, but not really shaping the turn to get around the gate. In other words, you let the board determine the turn, not you.

For both 1 & 2, see this Midweighting series, videos 1 thru 4:

Just to show you a quick example of 2, look at this great riding by Sigi Grabner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ2lv2voio8

This is great freeriding. Not many amateurs can even come close to this excellence. But, even Sigi couldn't get through the gates with it. For that, he'd need a different board and would change his technique--especially pressuring the board more in the fall line to shape the turn more tightly.

The fact that you recognize something is not right in the gates is a very positive sign that you can take steps to correct this. If you slide to get around the gates, you won't correct the problem, but you will get short term satisfaction, which is not the best way to go, IMHO.

[Marco]

This new video Midweighting 5 might help. It's not the be all and end all, but it'll give folks an idea of running the gates:

[Beckmann AG]

Rebound your feet without disturbing your core.

[biggerwrangler]

Look farther ahead.

Look 2-3 gates ahead depending on conditions and course

Guard up so you are not afraid of hitting the gates.

we are not euro carving here. use more hip and keep the body more upright

Also if you are having trouble holding the edge get a plate and work the legs at the gym.

Still having trouble Raise the shoulder closest to the gate when rounding. However best try this outside the course first as it can make for a much more powerful turn. you can get launched.

Great trick for a turn right after a cranker to get you back on line.

Last thought He who finishes beats those who don't, In order to win you have to cross the finish line.

[scrutton]

I think I just figured something out, the extension while going around the gate acts like a gas-pedal.....using a motorcycle analogy, you flex early to get the board where it needs to be, then extend to roll on the gas.

The thing about the mid-weighting videos is that it's hard to see the extension. It's very subtle....and I'm more caught up with seeing the guy go from standing tall to knees very bent when going around the gate. Whereas what really is happening is that he does have bent knees going into the turn, but then he is extending them to add power, and gain speed coming out of the turn.

Is my understanding getting closer to whats really going on?

[arcing]

One way to practice turning early is this - if you have access to snowboard gates, set up a short course of 3 or 4 reds and blues. set a second set of gates directly above each gate about 10 to 15 yds. as you go down the course, turn around the upper gate and when you hit the real gate below you should be 1) finishing/starting your next turn and 2) real tight on the gate and so on. We did this with our high school team to teach the kids where to turn in relation to the gate.

gene