WinterGold Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 I wouldn´t say that riding duck is just for park riders. I love doing some tricks on the slope (e.g. nose- and tailrolls, nose- and tailpresses, different 180° and 360°, nose- and tailslides, etc.). For such tricks you get a very balanced stance when riding duck. Carving switch is also more relaxed. And I don´t think you get a bad technique just from rotating your back foot a bit (see pics - stance is 18° -6°). For my BX and powder boards I use a forward stance (21° 9°). For me there is not that much difference. It´s just that I do less tricks (and also less switch riding) on those boards. So there is no real need for a duck stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 What's with all the duck-foot hating here? It's a perfectly practical stance to use (within reason) for free riding when you plan on riding switch for any length of time. I just started riding softies again this year, and I can carve to the limit of the board with my stance ducked (15/-15) on most terrain. It's just different - I still ride 60/57 on my Coiler (and 90/90 on my Teles;)), but they're for decidedly different purposes. You will probably never see me slide a rail or spend any time in the terrain park while I'm riding my Coiler, and you'll probably never see me running gates on my Arbor. I really like the symmetry afforded to me by the duck-footed stance, and now that I've gotten used to it, it's actually quite comfortable around the hill when riding with slower people (especially facing uphill on your knees waiting for said people) If I ever get into BX, my stance will change from duckiness, but for all around freeriding it works awfully well. Oh, and I push on either side of the board, depending on crowds. I get more power pushing heelside, but more control and finesse pushing toeside. Deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 What's with all the duck-foot hating here? It's not duck hating, it's against the assumption that every soft booter wants to ride fakie. Duck makes perfect sense for anyone who intentionally rides backwards more than occasionally. My soft boot heel sides look very similar to wintergold's, except I don't have to tweek my rear ankle like that. If he rides backwards as well, it's worth the bad alignment on forward carves, but why should a snowboarder who has no intention of riding backwards be subjected to this restriction, right off the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 It's not duck hating, it's against the assumption that every soft booter wants to ride fakie. Duck makes perfect sense for anyone who intentionally rides backwards more than occasionally. My soft boot heel sides look very similar to wintergold's, except I don't have to tweek my rear ankle like that. If he rides backwards as well, it's worth the bad alignment on forward carves, but why should a snowboarder who has no intention of riding backwards be subjected to this restriction, right off the bat. Fair enough. Thinking about it, I believe that my first rental board was goofy-specific and not ducked out, but that was in 1995 or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 I ride duck on soft setup 3, -3. This picture has gotten mileage but it shows my heelside with the duck stance. With rotation in the waist your butt is over the board during flexion of the knees. Instead of "sitting on the toilet. Of course your knees end up together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Angles... 21 front, -9 rear. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30709 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Took the harduck Steep combo for a high speed test today, just too see what it does/feels at speeds higher then teaching... I kinda sucked at it, but it was doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Angles...21 front, -9 rear. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30709 But here's what this debate is really about. If you had no intention of riding backwards, and only wanted to cruise around the resort, maybe progressing to some forward carving, would you still ride duck stance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yes...and I have neither the time nor the inclination (no pun intended) to explain why... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yes...and I have neither the time nor the inclination (no pun intended) to explain why... When you do have the time, I would be genuinely interested in the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Angles...21 front, -9 rear. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30709 Yawn. Big deal. You can get the board on edge on the bunny slope. Yippie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yawn. Big deal. You can get the board on edge on the bunny slope. Yippie! Wow, I always thought it was way harder to carve on the flats at slow speeds and link turns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBump Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 But here's what this debate is really about. If you had no intention of riding backwards, and only wanted to cruise around the resort, maybe progressing to some forward carving, would you still ride duck stance? Personally, I would still ride duck stance. I find it to be a more versatile stance for all mountain riding(I'm talking softboots, for hardboots I don't see why you would ride them that way). I can move my weight around on the board easier than with when I rode a forward stance. Getting to the nose and tail faster and farther. Also, I feel like I have more range of motion to absorb terrain when duck. If you are talking about a generic snowboarder who is only interested in making turns, cruising around the mountain in their normal stance(ie not switch), with no desire for learning tricks or switch, then I would say that stance angles don't make much of a difference unless it's something that is inheritely a bad idea(like pigeon toed or something, physical reasons for the stance not withstanding). Is a forward stance better for carving? Probably. Do I think it really matters? Not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Set up beginners duck. They are going forwards as much as backwards at this stage, so it makes sense and they won't care. Your teaching abilities, like how you communicate your message, absorb their responses and select terrain are way more impactful. Anyone past this stage, like most of you in this thread? Adjust your bindings until you are comfortable. How you want to ride will dictate this partially, with the rest being determined by what your body will tolerate and everyone's body will accept something different. If your physique can't handle it, or your style doesn't go along with it, that doesn't negate the position for others, so stating that it sucks because it sucks for you is bull****. WinterGold... You look like a shredder. Nice heelside for low angles. I'm in Austria next week, so I hope the snows good. Let me know. Wolle and the Asmo boys say it's dry, but they're comparing it to where we were riding, which is unfair as the Revelstoke area is about the snowiest place around. Here's my stance breakdown, according to board... -Alpine Race: Lined up with the edges, for a very tiny amount of overhang, but absolutely avoiding underhang. This is with the shell of the boot, at the end of the toebox, not the bail lip. The angles will change according to width of the deck, which varies more in alpine than any other discipline of riding. This also means that the bail lip will be hanging over, but you have to be at about 85+ degrees of edge angle to feel it and the tradeoff is having your toes inside the boot over the edge, rather than inside it. -EC: If you ride at laid out edge angles, you will boot out with the above, especially on the firmest snow, so set up the whole boot inside the edge. -Freestyle: +15 and -10. Most boards are the same width, unless you go to wide boards, so I don't change this one. Edge angle is not a huge factor here either, so a cm or so of whole boot overhang is not a problem. It can be an issue if you ride pipe and under rotate a spin, landing on the vert in an upright position, on your heels. -Freeride: +25 and -5. Don't talk to me about "splay". My knees like it. It's a great combination for slarving turns. The duckfoot here is more about turn completion on steeps and the corresponding, square, body position it puts you in, than it is about riding switch. I'm also more conscious of board width here, moreso than FS, because I will want to generate a high degree of edge angle for carving. Binding type is very important, too, with a binding that has a very low profile, or non-existant, baseplate heel loop. -Noboard / Asmo pow surfer: My feet sit at about +5 and -5. This is how I would comfortably stand. It's safe to say that I'm not talking out of my ass, so if your body type and tolerances are like mine, you could go with these and kill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Great post Rob! I agree wholeheartedly with your comments and would add the following: I try to get (soft-boot) riders to be as balanced as possible, just imagine an old-fashioned weighing scale that is really sensitive and perfectly balanced. If you put a feather on one side the scale will shift, this is the same principle I apply to riding. The more centered and balanced you are, the less you need to do to initiate a turn, as a tiny movement will "unbalance" your scale and start your turn with very little effort. It becomes an effortless way of riding, something I am quite keen on as I spend 130+ days on snow per season. This is further facilitated by my riding duck, its much easier to balance. Stand on a Yew-do and see which stance is more balanced? For me, current soft-boot stance /riding, is summed up by one word... "Balance". Now I'm off up the mountain to try my Kessler for the first time, angles 57, 53 or thereabouts :) Martin Drayton ps. Rob, say Hi for me to the guys from BASI and Matt Phillips and Kyle Kosthoris with the Kiwi contingent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoofyFoot Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Wow! This has to be one of the more intersting threads happening at the moment. In general, the serious answers are right; especially since there is no "correct" set-up. That is why those rotational base plates have so many options - you get to choose what feels good to you! Over the 15 years years I have been riding, I started on softies at 0/15, then worked up to bigger speeds and bigger angles: 25/35 (greater angles did not work in soft boots - I tried). When I started riding switch, I went duck at a symetrical -15/+15 and have left it there ever since. Like several other riders here, I am a CASI instr (lvl II with carving cert). I just attended a Dec refresher course at Tremblant. In CASI's brand new "reference manual" they recommend newbies start off at -6/+9 IIRC (I shipped off my manual - full of margin notes - to the Nat Tech Coord to address some editing issues so I am relying on memory). Personally, I find that riding switch is easier when bindings are set-up duck. However, as a result, I, too, choose to skate with my free foot on the heel side. Up until switching to a duck stance I would almost always skate on the toe side. In comparison, I have my alpine board bindings set up at 65/72. I have been told more than once while on course I should ride at more conservative but anytime I have backed them off, my riding turns to crap! Long story short, try different angles and go with what works for you and your style of riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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