On Health, Weight Loss, and Personal Responsibility

[boarderboy]

Thought I'd post this, since the topic seems to be weighing heavily in the 'Health Care' debate here and elsewhere.

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/better-ways-to-help-the-public-lose-weight/

I weigh too much. But my activity level is high and getting higher with the onset of Daylight Savings Time.

Most school days, I check my teen son out of school at lunch time, we take a brisk 15-20 minute bike ride, and then I make sure he gets back in time for a quick meal before class.

We do this, primarily, for behavioral reasons. (My son is ADHD, oppositional/defiant, etc., etc.,) His pediatrician says 20 minutes of vigorous exercise is enough to increase endorphin to therapeutic levels. But there's no doubt the exercise helps control the weight gain his meds could otherwise cause. Ditto for his chocolate-loving Dad.

Combine the above with many AM drive-then-ride-to-school jaunts, and he feels/acts much better. So do I.

Weight loss for its own sake, is VERY difficult to maintain for most people. And, as pointed out elsewhere, it's often a product of depression, a condition even many "insured" Americans can't afford to have treated these days.

There is one sacrifice I will never make, however.

I think that I shall never see a 'Lite' beer meant for me.

cheers

BB

[Alaskan Rover]

I think that is great, what you are doing with your son. And there is a FAR more important benefit to that daily noon-time ride than just physical exercise. You get a chance to exercise the BOND that you have with your son. Sometimes, just spending time together, father and son, makes all the difference in the world...not single word need be uttered.

In today's increasing hustle and bustle, I think perhaps those quiet times between father and son or father and daughter, are the dearest of all. Cherish those moments...each and every one.

I, too, think "Lite beer" is an offense to one's taste-buds. Might as well eat yellow snow...as most "lite" beers I've had taste like the liquid version of that anyway!

I've become a big fan of New Holland Brewery. They have this great brown ale called: "Log Cabin Ale". I also love this small Montana brewery called Kettlehouse Brewery....they make this ale called "Cold Smoke Scotch Ale" that is absolutely AMAZING!

To me, a finely brewed ale is like a fine scotch, something to be sipped slowly, leisurely.

Gravity IS Life.

[Kent]

Most people are fat/overweight because they eat too much, not because they don't work out/don't work out enough....

I know that sounds harsh, but that's the reality.

[boarderboy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/business/28unbox.html?hpw

Carrot seems to work much better than a stick!

BB

[Jack M]

The first law of Thermodynamics is a heartless thing. Calories in = Calories burned + Calories stored.

I must confess Bud Light Golden Wheat is delicious.

[boarderboy]

The first law of Thermodynamics is a heartless thing. Calories in = Calories burned + Calories stored.

I'll make sure it's quoted at my wake.

In the meantime, on your recommendation, I'll give the Golden Wheat a try... assuming it's found its way to Possum Pouch by now...

BB

[BobD]

The first law of Thermodynamics is a heartless thing. Calories in = Calories burned + Calories stored.

I must confess Bud Light Golden Wheat is delicious.

Whilst true, it is possible to influence the ratio of burned and stored. The type of food, it's digestion time, and the timing of intake will make huge differences in how much is actually stored.

[bobdea]

I must confess Bud Light Golden Wheat is delicious.

are you serious? it's hard to tell in text, I ask because I've had some cheap beers I like...

[Jack M]

are you serious? it's hard to tell in text, I ask because I've had some cheap beers I like...

Totally. It's like Hoegaarden light. And not too light either. You have to do the swirl though, otherwise all bets are off. Have you tried it?

[Kent]

Whilst true, it is possible to influence the ratio of burned and stored. The type of food, it's digestion time, and the timing of intake will make huge differences in how much is actually stored.

Negative.

How many research links would you want me to include?

Many diets sites say "don't eat after 8" only because most people overeat at night.

Calories are calories. See Jack's post.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Negative.

How many research links would you want me to include?

Many diets sites say "don't eat after 8" only because most people overeat at night.

Calories are calories. See Jack's post.

Especially when my first meal of the day is often at 5PM

[bobdea]

Totally. It's like Hoegaarden light. And not too light either. You have to do the swirl though, otherwise all bets are off. Have you tried it?

no, but I will. been looking for a good can beer that's cheap, does not have a gas widget, fairly light bodied and not a american style lager.

doing some camping this summer and hauling around empty bottles sucks.

to date the best can beer I've had is old chub. that one is worth a try if you have not tried it.

[Steve Prokopiw]

Negative.

How many research links would you want me to include?

Many diets sites say "don't eat after 8" only because most people overeat at night.

Calories are calories. See Jack's post.

that BobD's point is valid.It may be the first rule (intake versus usage),but not all people react to all the same type of food intake in the same way.Empty and detrimental calories have a far more negative effect than calories that contribute to muscle quality or facilitate other beneficial effects.And exercise and the type of exercise can matter just as much as calorie intake strategies or lack thereof.

[BobD]

Negative.

How many research links would you want me to include?

Many diets sites say "don't eat after 8" only because most people overeat at night.

Calories are calories. See Jack's post.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Actually, I meant that the opposite of the way you understood it. Several smaller meals, instead of three larger meals. Small healthy snacks between meals, and do eat before bed if you are hungry. The body stores fat when that response is triggered by hunger. The most important part of diet, and losing weight is controlling the Glycemic index, which can be done by eating foods that digest slowly, and timing meals, so you are never hungry.

BobD

[Steve Prokopiw]

Less, more often..... Works best for me.

can apply to effective exercise,ie,shorter duration,more intense intervals have been shown to raise the metabolic effect for hours afterward in addition to increasing bone density compared to the now 'old school' fat burning zone training for long durations and low intensities.Still has it's use for endurance and overall wellness but not as effective and higher intensity intervals in calorie burning, and takes much more of a person's limited and, presumably, valuable time.

[Kent]

Actually, I was meant that the opposite of the way you understood it. Several smaller meals, instead of three larger meals. Small healthy snacks between meals, and do eat before bed if you are hungry. The body stores fat when that response is triggered by hunger. The most important part of diet, and losing weight is controlling the Glycemic index, which can be done by eating foods that digest slowly, and timing meals, so you are never hungry.

BobD

Negative x2 -

You can dump all daily calories in one meal or split it up...your choice. The body doesn't discriminate.

Of course, there are benefits to having smaller meals....but has no bearing on the current topic.

Remember the old line, "Which weighs more; a pound of feathers or a pound of rocks?"

K

[Kent]

that BobD's point is valid.It may be the first rule (intake versus usage),but not all people react to all the same type of food intake in the same way.Empty and detrimental calories have a far more negative effect than calories that contribute to muscle quality or facilitate other beneficial effects.And exercise and the type of exercise can matter just as much as calorie intake strategies or lack thereof.

Yes...assuming you have a stomach, liver, kidney and intestine, people's body reacts the same way.

There is no such thing as "empty and detrimental calories" as it relates to the topic. I'd certainly agree you're better off having 2,000 calories of veggies and lean meats over beer, but that doesn't have a bearing on your waistline. See Jack's post.

Type of exercise...unfortunately, doesn't discriminate either.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Most people aren't aware of how much they really are ingesting and burning. They'll go for a half-hour run and think that justifies having pie and ice cream later. Using something like fitday is very helpful. It lets you track what you eat and what you burn. The formula is (expended calories-intake calories)/3500 to give pounds lost. You will quickly see from fitday that diet is the most important factor. That half hour run is about a donut's worth.

Any weight lost or gained is a combination of fat and muscle. You will unavoidably lose muscle along with the fat or add fat along with the muscle if you are gaining. To move the ratio more in favour of muscle, add some weight training and make sure you get enough protein in your diet (at least .8 g per pound of lean body mass, preferably 1 g).

[Allee]

The 1g per pound protein rule is a tough one. For a skinny girl like me, I simply can't eat that much protein in a day without cheating and drinking some of it. 0.8 is more achievable, but I did read one study that said unless you're really trying to muscle up, the average person does better at about 0.5. Digesting protein makes your liver and kidneys work hard, and I've know more than one bodybuilder develop some nasty digestive issues from the high amount of protein in their diets.

While protein is definitely the way to go for adding lean muscle mass, some people just don't run well on it. My old gym training partner would go on a 12 week high protein, low carb diet from competiton, and thrive. I'd do the same thing, and my body would literally eat itself alive. Different people definitely have different ways of dealing with diet composition, and what works for one person might not work for you. That's the science - figuring that out - and it can take years. It;s also my beef with the diet industry in general, but that's a whole 'nother story.

[Kent]

Neil wins...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30826120/

That article is a bit misleading as lifting weights has been shown to increase metabolism. Of course, the meatheads at the gym typically eat too much...they are strong and fat.

As for smaller meals, there is benefit...but not as it relates to losing weight:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3592618

Long story short...if a friend wants my advice, it's simple:

a) Choose a hobby you love and firm up the calorie intake (based upon your ability to sustain it)

b) Do P90X or Crossfit and firm up the calorie intake (based upon your ability to sustain it)

For me...I do 15-20 hours of cardio each week, but that's only because I enjoy it (not because it's the best method). If I wanted a beach body, see "b" above.

K

[BobD]

Yes...assuming you have a stomach, liver, kidney and intestine, people's body reacts the same way.

There is no such thing as "empty and detrimental calories" as it relates to the topic. I'd certainly agree you're better off having 2,000 calories of veggies and lean meats over beer, but that doesn't have a bearing on your waistline. See Jack's post.

Type of exercise...unfortunately, doesn't discriminate either.

Everything I've read is at odds with this. Some foods digest quickly. When this happens, the glycemic index spikes. The excess glucose is easily stored as fat. Foods that are digested slowly, do not cause these spikes. So two foods of equal calorific value, might have very different effects on glycemic index. A person on a 2000 calorie/day diet of simple carbs like Twinkies, will likely store more fat, than a person on a 2000/day diet of complex carbs like whole grain bread and vegetables. The effect would be exaggerated, if the Twinkie eater ate them all in three sitting per day.

[Kent]

See links above...

Twinkies or veggies..take your pick! :)

Although, it would take A LOT of veggies (raw) to get to a few thousand. And, it would cost a lot.

Yes..very much over-simplified. There are A LOT of advantages to eating "healthy".

Let's take an extreme example, Ironman fueling.

I need 350 calories an hour to keep going. It's a bit better to use Powerbars rather than Ho-Ho's as PBs burns cleaner and digests easier over the course of 140 miles. Not as it relates to weight gain.

[Allee]

That article is a bit misleading as lifting weights has been shown to increase metabolism. Of course, the meatheads at the gym typically eat too much...they are strong and fat.

The benefit in heavy and hard weight lifting is that once the exercise stops, there's still metabolic processes going on. With cardio, once you stop and your heart rate retunrs to normal, your body is not working. After a good knock em down weight workout, your body has a whole lot of work to do rebuilding and repairing all the damage you did to fibre and tissue. That's a process than can take up to 72 hours for big muscle groups. Same philosophy as for trauma patients, I suppose - to recover they need good food, and a lot more of it than common sense might otherwise suggest.

I've been doing P90X for a month now, on week 5 this week. I found I was as hungry as hell for the first two weeks, but now it's levelled off. The cardio fitness is improving, but the weightlifting ability is suffering, and I'm not losing weight at all. In fact, I may have to cut the food intake down a bit to make that happen. I just thought that was interesting - my body doesn't think that P90X is as hard as lifting...

[Neil Gendzwill]

The 1g per pound protein rule is a tough one. For a skinny girl like me, I simply can't eat that much protein in a day without cheating and drinking some of it.

Why is drinking it cheating? When I was trying to gain muscle and lifting heavy (for me), I definitely was drinking those protein shakes. In fact, I was craving some protein and people tell me that it's best to eat a bunch of protein within one hour of working out - the shakes are the easiest way to do it.

[Aisling]

what the heck is p90x?