Best type of sofboots for POW?

[piusthedrcarve]

Here is why I need a forum for softboots carving. :)

I am wondering what types of softboots would be best for POW. I have DNR/Marker boots that click-in on both sides. It has stiff tongue with a booster strap that work like 3 strap Raichle SB hardboots. I do softboot carving with the boots in 55/50 setup and it performs really well. But dang thing is heavy as hell.

Now, I am market for softboots that will be ONLY ridden on POW condition. If else, I will be on my hardboots. So..question is.. should I get stiff flex softboots or soft flex softboots for POW? What characteristics of boots that are important for POW condition?

[Guest]

Um, no offense meant, but why would you get a pow setup if you live in VA? Do you get out west much?

[piusthedrcarve]

Um, no offense meant, but why would you get a pow setup if you live in VA? Do you get out west much?

Not at all. But don't we all have POW specified board in quiver? Softboot and POW board is just for POW, maybe 1 or 2 times in here and few trips to Tahoe. Otherwise, I will be on hardboots

[Sinecure]

I don't see anything wrong with riding hard boots in pow. I usually leave them in walk mode.

But if you want to try softies, and you like the feel of hard boots. I'd suggest stiff ones. Most here seem to like Malamutes (me included). I have them mated to Flow bindings, but I don't really suggest Flows for pow because they are a PITA to close if there's any snow inside. Or if you get them closed, then the snow works its way out, they're too loose.

I haven't tried my soft boots in pow yet. I usually ski on powder days (I know, a complete flip-flop from how I dealt with pow for almost 20 years). But I'm tempted to mount them to my 196 Nitro Pow Gun and see how they are. If only I were in Tahoe today. Bluebird powder day with 2' of fresh. Grrr.

[piusthedrcarve]

I don't see anything wrong with riding hard boots in pow. I usually leave them in walk mode.

I set my stance way back on POW and I was wondering if hard boots weighs too much..unbalanced? maybe..

I'm tempted to mount them to my 196 Nitro Pow Gun and see how they are. If only I were in Tahoe today. Bluebird powder day with 2' of fresh. Grrr.

Please do and share your thoughts on boots selection. It gotta be different if you ride with 3 lbs boots/binding combined then 12-14 lbs boots/binding.

[Alaskan Rover]

Well, as you no doubt know, riding powder is different, in that the board tends to act more like a plane (or a submarine, at times..LOL). The light powder without a bottom becomes like air, and thus the board gets forces like lift and yaw acting upon it. To control the board in powder it takes light, minimal BUT very precise movements, as the board has really become an airfoil (or a snow-foil, I guess). Thus you need to be able to both feel these light precise movements, and INPUT those movements. That takes a medium stiff boot to input those precise "airfoil" adjustments...really stiff is not really necessary. But you don't really want to go with a soft beginner boot either, as you will have less of a dynamic control of the plane of the board.

Of course, i am sort of biased, as I have been riding in these boots for a long time and I find they work as GREAT in deep powder as on hardpack.

The boots I ride are Vans "Jamie Lynns'...not sure if they still make this model...but it has just the right mixture of stiffness and flexibility. If you can find a used pair somewhere, they are a great boot...at the time of my purchase, they were the best competion softboot in the business, and are super well-made....with separate inner liner with it's OWN set of laces.

For playing in the pow a few days a year...truthfully ANY well made, expert-level softboot would do fine...even an intermediate model. No need to spend gazillions of bucks.

Don't forget that the binding is just as important part of the foot/board interface as your boots. Stiff...highly adjustable...with good strap-padding is the the ticket here.

Don't forget gaitors....gaitors are MADATORY for powder and will make your life MUCH more comfortable...unless you like having most of the Greenland snowfields in your boots. :)

Gravity IS Life.

[Buell]

Ideally, match your boot stiffness, board stiffness, and binding stiffness for powder. As Alaskan touches on, powder riding is much different than riding groomers. Your board base is floating on a medium that can compress unlike groom and you are after a more delicate touch.

Hardboots work well for some and not for others (not me). The issue with hardboots is not the weight, it is the ability to very easily overpower the board and the soft snow.

If you are riding a smaller or soft flex board in powder (Burton Fish), ride softer boots and bindings. If your boots and bindings are too stiff, you will have an excess of power over the board and it can ride like a noodle. If they are matched, the board will ride much better.

If you are riding a bigger or stiffer board in powder (Rad Air Tanker), you will want a stiffer boot/binding set up to powder it. If your boots / bindings are too soft, you will not be able to power the board and your ankles might be upset.

I have consistently found that for myself and others, softboots start stiff, soften as your ride them and become too soft at about 40 days. They are not that durable

[piusthedrcarve]

Thanks. It makes a great sense now.

I have consistently found that for myself and others, softboots start stiff, soften as your ride them and become too soft at about 40 days. They are not that durable

Being an eastcost rider, that 40th days on POW will be good 10 years from now. Maybe 5 years if I trip to Tahoe every year. :)

[Alaskan Rover]

"Ideally, match your boot stiffness, board stiffness, and binding stiffness for powder"...Buell.

Great point, Buell! It is very true that too stiff of a boot/binding combo can overpower the board...even if you have the perfect powder board.

I can say that I am not too happy with quite a few of the supposedly 'expert' softboots being sold in this last couple of years. I have noticed that on the expert or competition side of things, quality has gone down, durability has gone down and price continues to go up.

It seems the whole softboot industry has switched over to using vinyl...used to be just cheap beginner boots were made using that cheap-looking vinyl...now even top-level boots have gone to that sheeeet.

I just did a few minutes of research and found they still do make vans jamie lynns, but they they look like absolute garbage now. Cheap vinyl outside, I think they no longer have the seperate lacing for the separate inner liner...not even sure if they even have a separate liner anymore. The original Jamie Lynns were very high-quality and made of some sort of strong composite material. The problem with that cheap vinyl is it cracks after a while at the edges.

Would be nice to see a softboot that is as well made and long-lasting as a Dave Page custom leather hiking boot or at least a Fabiano!! Hell, no...their going cheap, because now most of the companies are owned by huge conglomerates run by shareholder boards that dictate that profit and P & E must be more important than quality and longevity. Engineered obsolescence has now come to the snowboard industry! Grrrrrrr...

I buy lots of stuff used...but how are you supposed to find a good used pair of boarding boots that aren't already ratted out? The industry knows that is nearly impossible and thus knows they have you by the short hairs.

So I hope my old Jamie Lynns last for a lot longer time, cuz they're going to need to. I'll be getting the fix-it "Goop" out pretty soon, I think.

[Guest]

Thanks. It makes a great sense now.

Being an eastcost rider, that 40th days on POW will be good 10 years from now. Maybe 5 years if I trip to Tahoe every year. :)

My point exactly. Why waste the money on specific boots, when what you have works very well.

[Dave ESPI]

the only speciffic thing Id say as to a powder boot is this invaluable acessory item....

Nothing worse then snow in yer boots and up your pants !

[Buell]

What the hell are you talking about Dave?

I would assume I have ridden a tremendous amount more powder days than you and this has never been an issue.

Maybe a proper pair of snow riding pants?

[carvin29]

I would get something with a mellow flex since you're only using it for powder days. Maybe even get some low end Burtons for less than $200, they're still a good product.

[Buell]

Thanks. It makes a great sense now.

Being an eastcost rider, that 40th days on POW will be good 10 years from now. Maybe 5 years if I trip to Tahoe every year. :)

Because they only last so long, Rebecca and I always try to buy them new during the end of the season sales.

I would not buy used softboots.

[Jim]

"Ideally, match your boot stiffness, board stiffness, and binding stiffness for powder"...Buell.

Great point, Buell! It is very true that too stiff of a boot/binding combo can overpower the board...even if you have the perfect powder board.

I can say that I am not too happy with quite a few of the supposedly 'expert' softboots being sold in this last couple of years. I have noticed that on the expert or competition side of things, quality has gone down, durability has gone down and price continues to go up.

It seems the whole softboot industry has switched over to using vinyl...used to be just cheap beginner boots were made using that cheap-looking vinyl...now even top-level boots have gone to that sheeeet.

I just did a few minutes of research and found they still do make vans jamie lynns, but they they look like absolute garbage now. Cheap vinyl outside, I think they no longer have the seperate lacing for the separate inner liner...not even sure if they even have a separate liner anymore. The original Jamie Lynns were very high-quality and made of some sort of strong composite material. The problem with that cheap vinyl is it cracks after a while at the edges.

Would be nice to see a softboot that is as well made and long-lasting as a Dave Page custom leather hiking boot or at least a Fabiano!! Hell, no...their going cheap, because now most of the companies are owned by huge conglomerates run by shareholder boards that dictate that profit and P & E must be more important than quality and longevity. Engineered obsolescence has now come to the snowboard industry! Grrrrrrr...

I buy lots of stuff used...but how are you supposed to find a good used pair of boarding boots that aren't already ratted out? The industry knows that is nearly impossible and thus knows they have you by the short hairs.

So I hope my old Jamie Lynns last for a lot longer time, cuz they're going to need to. I'll be getting the fix-it "Goop" out pretty soon, I think.

Deeluxe Empires look like they may be made to your specs. I'd like to try a pair myself. My ThirtyTwo Forecasts seem a bit too stiff.

[Dave ESPI]

What the hell are you talking about Dave?

I would assume I have ridden a tremendous amount more powder days than you and this has never been an issue.

Maybe a proper pair of snow riding pants?

I'm busting his balls, He is in VA. They just got dumped on for the first time in a very long time a few weeks ago. I was being facetious as most people "down south" have never stepped in snow deep enough to cascade over the top of the boot and get down inside them.

All in good fun, just a lill ribbing is all.

[piusthedrcarve]

I'm busting his balls, He is in VA. They just got dumped on for the first time in a very long time a few weeks ago. I was being facetious as most people "down south" have never stepped in snow deep enough to cascade over the top of the boot and get down inside them.

All in good fun, just a lill ribbing is all.

:lol: I only have lived here in VA for 4 years. Rest of my rides were your area (Bretton Wood, Canon, Killington, and Tuckermen's Lounge for every spring for years.)

Since here we got dumped for few times this year, I dust off my decks and had few turns this year and got hooked again. AND started to add carving boards to my quiver and POW board is one of them. I know it's going to be used so little....but.. I get to go to Tahoe every year..so why not.

[k2slopesurfer]

I'm busting his balls, He is in VA. They just got dumped on for the first time in a very long time a few weeks ago. I was being facetious as most people "down south" have never stepped in snow deep enough to cascade over the top of the boot and get down inside them.

All in good fun, just a lill ribbing is all.

I teach at a resort in southern WV dave, and yes I'm AASI and PSIA certified:eplus2:, and we have had over 160 inches on the season, with many days over a foot! Never thought I'd see a waist deep blower day here, but I have, and I never needed the duct tape. We see alot of camo and jeans down here, but usually our boots are in good repair.

I'm glad to have worked this season down south. Granted, I've been chest deep in christmas tree bowl in steamboat, but we have the goods for this season, so pipe down there! ;)

[hairywater]

Burton Serow, stiff enough for a softboot carver, vibrum soles, leather, warm. So ugly they are discounted everywhere:ices_ange

They remind me of my old Pontiac Aztec

[Alaskan Rover]

"Burton Serow, stiff enough for a softboot carver, vibrum soles, leather, warm. So ugly they are discounted everywhere:ices_ange"...by HairyWater.

Nice-looking boots!!! I like them. Do they include an inner liner w/ separate laces??

Good to see someone's still making a decent softboot.

They remind me of the white rubber bunny-boots (otherwise called mickey-mouse boots) that I would sometimes wear going to school in Fairbanks, Ak when it was 52 below..

I'll lookthem up...they look well-made.

[Miltie]

Take a look at Burton Driver X. They are stiff. Picked up a set last year and have been really satisfied with them overall. Worth considering.

[piusthedrcarve]

Obviously, my choice narrowed down to these two:

• 
  Salomon Malamute
  Burton Driver X
  

I probably get one of those when Spring sales get started.(some are already started) Thank you all for inputs.

[Dave ESPI]

I teach at a resort in southern WV dave, and yes I'm AASI and PSIA certified:eplus2:, and we have had over 160 inches on the season, with many days over a foot! Never thought I'd see a waist deep blower day here, but I have, and I never needed the duct tape. We see alot of camo and jeans down here, but usually our boots are in good repair.

I'm glad to have worked this season down south. Granted, I've been chest deep in christmas tree bowl in steamboat, but we have the goods for this season, so pipe down there! ;)

hahah, no worries hahaha! obviously ducttape is not any sort of serious answer. Your boots are in good repair because they are not used but for a few times each decade (I'm talking about the occasional skier and snowboarder from VA with whoom I have friends who moved there and are always telling me how much they hate seeing pics of snow and them not being in it, but this year they got revenge and would blast me with the pictures messages on my cell phone)

If anything, Im jealous, really have not had that kind of a winter up here, but for one day apparently @ HUNTER mountian there was really super deep stuff and a day or 2 @ JAY PEAK. I went to Aspen and really hoped for a massive dump, but was let down by M.N. and my pow board remains waxed and unused this season :(

[Dr D]

at any rate I ride a similiar boot to what you originally talked about. I ride a vans switch step in one size oversize with heatmold hardboot liners in them. the hardboot liners replaced the original heatmold liner and take up the extra room. They make the boot 3-4 inches taller in the front and 5-6 inches taller in the back. This is very comfortable and not as stiff as you would think. I ride powder very much from the ankles so flex is necessary in the boot. The tall liners give a feeling of security while allowing a great deal of controled flex. I have also ridden with cateks and malamutes but the stiffness is a hinderance in deep POW. If I can hit bottom with the edges I stick with the stiffer setup and if its bottomless I go for bedroom slipper comfort and flexibility and a BIG Swallowtail:biggthump

[boarderboy]

Burton Serow, stiff enough for a softboot carver, vibrum soles, leather, warm. So ugly they are discounted everywhere:ices_ange

Probably very good for hiking. And they're priced "right" in lots of places.

BUT, be aware, on Burton's stiffness/support scale, they're rated a "6". As a reference, the Driver-X's rate a "10."

Though I started on softboots (on a finned, Burton Elite 150!), I've been hardboot exclusive for probably 20 years. If I were buying a Burton boot now (and despite the company's "trendiness" and bling, I do like a lot of their gear) I'd stick with the Driver-X - even for powder.

BB