Bone on Bone (New Knee)?

[bumpyride]

Anyone had bone on bone in their knee. Trying to find out as much information as possible before I commit to a drastic operation. I have a full thickness defect (hole) in the cartilage on the weight bearing zone on the medial (inside) of my left knee measuring 12 to 13mm. Yesterday it took a decided turn for the worst and is now catching bone on bone with a decided click and some pretty severe pain.

So my Doc said that I might be a candidate for a Half-knee (Unicondylar) replacement. He said he hasn't done enough to be total competent to do the procedure. He didn't think a microfracture procedure would work. Another Doc (Knee specialist in Bozeman Montana) said he's had good luck with the microfracture technique, and if it didn't work, no harm done.

My dilemma is trying to buy as much time before I have serious reconstruction work done in case new techniques become available to an intact knee (like new synthetic cartilage). I'm worried that even a half knee will remove too much material to be able and go back for a new treatment.

I've read that a whole knee effectively keeps you from kneeling, and I need that mobility or my ability to work will be curtailed-drastically. This is not even mentioning that I may no longer be able to board, and I will have to change my call sign from Bumpyride to Bumponalog.

Anyone have a half knee replacement or a whole knee replacement, or offer suggestions?

Anyone know the best Ortho in the Seattle/Tacoma area for knees?

[Rammy]

I am having extreme pain under my knee cap and my knee buckes out from under me if loaded to peak pain threshold also.I went to see a sports doc and he said I would need complete replacement based on the x-rays. He sent me to a specialist who has me on the list for an mri. The specialist believes I have minor arthritis under my knee cap and believes he can remedy the situation with orthoscopic surgery to remove the buildup under the knee cap. He said recovery would be a few weeks if all went well. Very large emotional roller coaster ride.

[bumpyride]

I am having extreme pain under my knee cap and my knee buckes out from under me if loaded to peak pain threshold also.I went to see a sports doc and he said I would need complete replacement based on the x-rays. He sent me to a specialist who has me on the list for an mri. The specialist believes I have minor arthritis under my knee cap and believes he can remedy the situation with orthoscopic surgery to remove the buildup under the knee cap. He said recovery would be a few weeks if all went well. Very large emotional roller coaster ride.

Wait for the MRI before you get too bummed out. The complete knee doesn't sound right from all the info that I've garnered.

Best of luck.

[teach]

I had missing cartilage in my left knee, in the pocket where the lower bone slides in when you bend the knee. Walking was no problem, but even diving off a diving board caused it to swell up, get stiff and weak, and once, give out. I went to an orthopedic doctor after a year or so of trying different shoes (makes a huge difference, but doesn't solve the problem. I'm thinking alignment issues caused the problem in the first place...), carrying less in my backpack, etc. They sent me to physical therapy, stupid since I already do all that; definitely not a strength issue. I came back six months later or so and was sent for an MRI. The radiologist diagnosed arthritic degeneration; the doctor diagnosed torn meniscus. When the doctor started the arthroscopic surgery he determined it wasn't a torn meniscus, but a cartilage defect, and went ahead with microfracture surgery. For those who don't know, that's when you poke lots of holes in the bone to get bone marrow to ooze out. This provokes a healing response in which fibrocartilage forms. Not as durable as the real thing, they tell me. Anyway, I had a surprise when I came to! This kept me on crutches for 6 weeks, and took a while to get the muscles back.

It's an improvement. The MRI I had last summer showed cartilage (the fibrocartilage, shows up differently than the real stuff) and I don't get the weakness I did before. It still swells up, though, but that's getting a bit better. I take ibuprofen before doing anything requiring bending more than 20 degrees or so, and ice up afterwards. Lately I'm ready to go the next day. Can't take too many days in a row of that, though.

The doctor also said various types of cartilage implants are options if this doesn't work, and that I should wait on knee replacement. But I know a person who got knee replacement and she was snowboarding months later. I was rather envious!

From my experience and from the experiences of relatives with other joint problems, I strongly recommend getting lots of opinions, seeking out real experts, reading what you can, asking doctors to explain how things work in detail, arguing with them, and so on. Wrong diagnoses, lack of understanding of what joints are used for, lack of attention to your problem, and outmoded treatments are the norm here.

Good luck!

[bumpyride]

I had missing cartilage in my left knee, in the pocket where the lower bone slides in when you bend the knee. Walking was no problem, but even diving off a diving board caused it to swell up, get stiff and weak, and once, give out. I went to an orthopedic doctor after a year or so of trying different shoes (makes a huge difference, but doesn't solve the problem. I'm thinking alignment issues caused the problem in the first place...), carrying less in my backpack, etc. They sent me to physical therapy, stupid since I already do all that; definitely not a strength issue. I came back six months later or so and was sent for an MRI. The radiologist diagnosed arthritic degeneration; the doctor diagnosed torn meniscus. When the doctor started the arthroscopic surgery he determined it wasn't a torn meniscus, but a cartilage defect, and went ahead with microfracture surgery. For those who don't know, that's when you poke lots of holes in the bone to get bone marrow to ooze out. This provokes a healing response in which fibrocartilage forms. Not as durable as the real thing, they tell me. Anyway, I had a surprise when I came to! This kept me on crutches for 6 weeks, and took a while to get the muscles back.

It's an improvement. The MRI I had last summer showed cartilage (the fibrocartilage, shows up differently than the real stuff) and I don't get the weakness I did before. It still swells up, though, but that's getting a bit better. I take ibuprofen before doing anything requiring bending more than 20 degrees or so, and ice up afterwards. Lately I'm ready to go the next day. Can't take too many days in a row of that, though.

The doctor also said various types of cartilage implants are options if this doesn't work, and that I should wait on knee replacement. But I know a person who got knee replacement and she was snowboarding months later. I was rather envious!

From my experience and from the experiences of relatives with other joint problems, I strongly recommend getting lots of opinions, seeking out real experts, reading what you can, asking doctors to explain how things work in detail, arguing with them, and so on. Wrong diagnoses, lack of understanding of what joints are used for, lack of attention to your problem, and outmoded treatments are the norm here.

Good luck!

As with all medical procedures, it's up to the individual to direct their own treatment. I agree that we need to do all the background research and will continue to do so. I was hoping to find a Doc who could give me an informed (and I mean well researched) opinion on different options, and have sent out my records and MRIs already, but need to find a Doc that

is actively involved with new procedures.

Do you happen to know what kind of knee replacement the person you know had?

Anyway best of luck with your knee. Keep me informed on your progress and anything that you may find out.

Thanks

[dingbat]

I used to work for a guy who had a knee transplanted from an organ donor.

He was 100% and back to skiing at the same level he was pre operation after a year. Kinda creepy having some dead guy's knee in you, but it's a real knee that will work just like yours should have.

Might be worth looking in to.

[patmoore]

Gotta weigh in here. Tore the ACL in my right knee at a sky diving competition in 1969. Didn't have the reconstruction until 1997. Followed that up with two "tune-ups" to clean up torn meniscus. So much has been removed that my race ski boot is planed to a cant angle of 5.5 degrees. In September I damaged it further playing volleyball. I've had the bone ground down to keep it from catching and in November had there shots (a clone of Synvisc). I take liquid glucosamine every day and that seems to help. That seemed to help a lot but a knee replacement is inevitable. The inability to kneel used to be a problem with TKR (Total Knee Replacement) but I'm told it may not be as restrictive these days.

Three weeks ago I tore the ACL in my left knee (the good one!). I also tore the MCL, meniscus, and have a non-displaced fracture of bone and cartilage. it hurts like the dickens to walk but not to ski or board. Since the injury I've won three ski races and two snowboard races. I'm still scheduled for the NASTAR Nationals (skiing and boarding) at the end of March. As long as I wear a brace I should be fine. When I get back I need to look into a TKR on the right, ACL reconstruction on the left, or both, or neither.

[skatha]

I used to work for a guy who had a knee transplanted from an organ donor.

He was 100% and back to skiing at the same level he was pre operation after a year. Kinda creepy having some dead guy's knee in you, but it's a real knee that will work just like yours should have.

Might be worth looking in to.

Look at getting an OATS procedure-transplanted cartilage. I had one to fix the collapsed cartilage and dead bone resulting from my missed talus fracture. The post op recovery was rough-especially since I avoided all NSAIDs (problems with blood flow to the newly transplanted tissue) for 3 months (until I was out of the cast). I used a cadaver because the other option was nonweight bearing cartilage in the knee and I was concerned that structural differences between nonweight bearing and weight bearing cartilage would be an issue. That was 4 years ago and I occasionally have pain with the screws they used to reattach my tibia, but no pain from my ankle

[k_t]

Stands for high tibial osteotomy. Google it.I had this done about 14 years ago to unload the medial part of my left knee and just now am on the Synvisc to try to get more time out of my knee. I will be 60 in about one week. Check with a sports medicine doc on this to see if you are a candidate.

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Squatting and kneeling are the worst things you can do to your knees to wear them out.good luck

[bumpyride]

Looked at OATS, and will follow up on that. Am contacting a couple of knee specialists and talking to my original Doc tomorrow, and hoping to hear from a guy that had two half knees put in by a Robotic procedure and using a CNC machine to make a perfect fit.

Will be asking about HTO also.

I'll find out tomorrow about whether or not Synvisc could interfere with any procedure I might have, should it not work.

Had a bad 2 days, but I guess most of it was from being inflamed. That's going down for now, but I need to get something down that will work for me.

Thanks for all the info, and anyone else that has something to add, it would be very much appreciated. From what I'm following on people that have contacted me off the thread, I would hope that I could serve as a clearing house for some good web sites and good options or at least a little more information. Apparently a lot of us have damage, or are wearing out.

Probably like most of us, I figured I'd last for years. Only 150 lbs, in excellent shape, only ran on soft surfaces and then only twice a week, and didn't work at anything too often so I didn't think repetitive motion would be a factor. Guess body parts only have so long a life.

[AMK]

I' so sorry to hear that.

Gonna send u email.

till to next... hoping all will be fine soon.

[TrenchKnife]

Anyone had bone on bone in their knee. Trying to find out as much information as possible before I commit to a drastic operation. I have a full thickness defect (hole) in the cartilage on the weight bearing zone on the medial (inside) of my left knee measuring 12 to 13mm. Yesterday it took a decided turn for the worst and is now catching bone on bone with a decided click and some pretty severe pain.

So my Doc said that I might be a candidate for a Half-knee (Unicondylar) replacement. He said he hasn't done enough to be total competent to do the procedure. He didn't think a microfracture procedure would work. Another Doc (Knee specialist in Bozeman Montana) said he's had good luck with the microfracture technique, and if it didn't work, no harm done.

My dilemma is trying to buy as much time before I have serious reconstruction work done in case new techniques become available to an intact knee (like new synthetic cartilage). I'm worried that even a half knee will remove too much material to be able and go back for a new treatment.

I've read that a whole knee effectively keeps you from kneeling, and I need that mobility or my ability to work will be curtailed-drastically. This is not even mentioning that I may no longer be able to board, and I will have to change my call sign from Bumpyride to Bumponalog.

Anyone have a half knee replacement or a whole knee replacement, or offer suggestions?

Anyone know the best Ortho in the Seattle/Tacoma area for knees?

Try changing your binding angles first, being as its a hole in the cartilage, as opposed to full thinning.

You might be surprised at how many alpine riders are able to bypass continued knee trauma by simple binding angle changes and canting adjustments.

At this late point in the season (even in the PNW) you may consider switching to a soft setup and then simply work on anciliary muscles/groups over the Summer on a bike.

Binding cants can really exacerbate knee issues.

Try trading cants for angles, as doing so can significantly reduce focused meniscal stresses and erosion.

[bumpyride]

Try changing your binding angles first, being as its a hole in the cartilage, as opposed to full thinning.

You might be surprised at how many alpine riders are able to bypass continued knee trauma by simple binding angle changes and canting adjustments.

At this late point in the season (even in the PNW) you may consider switching to a soft setup and then simply work on anciliary muscles/groups over the Summer on a bike.

Binding cants can really exacerbate knee issues.

Try trading cants for angles, as doing so can significantly reduce focused meniscal stresses and erosion.

As it is, or should I say was, I was able to board without any problems at all. My binding angles and cants are set up so there is no stress on the medial side. I was quite careful how I was walking, but now I'm having trouble walking out to the car or even turning around to change direction in the house. I was actually waiting for the trolley to bring us from the parking lot to the Chalet to eliminate walking, but now it's painful to do just about anything.

I actually felt much better after a day of boarding, but now I don't dare risk it. RICE is now my take on just getting by. Have one more job to do to pay for the damages, and I'm dreading that, so boarding is done for the season, at the very least.