lonerider Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by skategoat The problem in the East is that the landing areas are usually very hard and icey. Very narrow margin of error and if you have your weight even a little bit back, the board will shoot out from under you on landing and the last thing you'll remember is the crack of your coconut hitting the ground. I've ridden several parks all across the US and Canada and the firmness and condition of the landings is not limited to any particular region. Landing areas are almost already firm, what matters more is that you judged the speed correctly and landed in the transition area and NOT the flat, landing in the flat with 1-2 inches of powder is still more jarring and landing on the transition in New England hardpack. It is sketchy to land on "bulletproof" slick ice (looks like translucent bulletproof glass and you wouldn't even be able to stand on it without sliding off), but that only happen occasionally from my experience. Usually there is a "icy" spot just at the start of the transition that is actually caused by hundreds of would-be freestylers landing on their edges, or landing short on the flat and then "slamming on the brakes" instead of straight-lining it through the rest of the jump. This scraps off the top snow and leaving the hard, hard park beneath. I do agree that it is a bit more difficult to be riding "flat" enough to ride out a jump that is complete ice, but I learned to do it within a season of dedicated park riding... I expect any reasonable competent rider should be able to do the same. If anything, parks tend to be better in the East - the snow isn't as good so resort have to make better parks to attract people. Poorly designed jumps can be a problem oh here in the west because the snow is so good, resorts don't bother too much with them sometimes. I rode several years a Sunday River, Killington and Loon Mtn and some days, the slopes were just covered in ice... so we would do the (icy) park all day. The board will never "shoot out" from under you unless you are landing on an edge. You can still pull out a landing if you landing far back on your tail *if* you are on a flat base, if you have an edge in, the tail will squirt in that direction. I still think the problem is that hardbooters have this "ride on an edge" mentality, and for park and rails (it's ok for pipe) you need to learn how to ride a flatboard. You only need to do it for 1-2 seconds at a time, but you just have to commit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P06781 Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 I done a few tabletops with Mike T and Jason at Timberline in the spring but I have always felt a little fearful. About 6 years ago I was jumping a large windlip down one of favorite lines at MtHoodMeadows and overshot on to ice causing a compression facture of my back. I think a park/jump lesson for carvers would be cool. Perhaps Lonerider can come out to Mike's MHES in may a put one on for us. Timberline has there jumps and parks perfect in May while getting ready for camper season. We usaully sneak a few runs in between the park but probably should be jumping them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider To me, kickers specifically refer to ramp jumps. A table top (looks like a trapezoid) is not a kicker but is a jump. However, most people don't usually don't know or bother with the differentiation. I have not taken a medium-sized jumps on my alpine board (only like a few 15-20 footers). Tthe narrow angles and responsive edges make it rather hard to absorb landing and stay on a flat base riding away. Is everyone talking about going over the side of the jump (like a tabletop) or the angling off the side of the ramp so you don't hit the lip of the jump. While I still occasionally land on my heelside when I "panic" or feel off-balance in the air, I have found once you learn to be confident in your abilities and commit to the flat base landing, you will be much more solid on the landing, for anything bigger than like 25 feet, landing on your heelside is going to be less effective... not to mention that it really messes up the landing (I always teach people to land on a flat base... ride off the landing... and THEN speed-check). 40-foot table ALMOST cleared is my longest jump that I was able to stick on a FAIRLY FLEXIBLE Oxygen Proton 168 GS. I do know the difference between the table and a kicker and a roller and a lip . . . I was talking about a transfer from SIDE to SIDE (over tables). I also enjoy hiting kickers and go off the side. In terms of "teaching people" - my most valuable advise to new jumpers is "Don't try to speed-check while still in the air . . . " :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_watkins Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by P06781 I done a few tabletops with Mike T and Jason at Timberline in the spring but I have always felt a little fearful. About 6 years ago I was jumping a large windlip down one of favorite lines at MtHoodMeadows and overshot on to ice causing a compression facture of my back. I think a park/jump lesson for carvers would be cool. Perhaps Lonerider can come out to Mike's MHES in may a put one on for us. Timberline has there jumps and parks perfect in May while getting ready for camper season. We usaully sneak a few runs in between the park but probably should be jumping them. Heh, you always looked confident hitting those to me. :D I don't know why, but for some reason tables started to scare me last season. I've only hit the wee little ones, and have yet to case it on one... but for whatever reason I was really reluctant to hit them last year. I don't expect to be riding the park a lot, but I would like to get that air confidence. Tips from someone who knows would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by Stan 40-foot table ALMOST cleared is my longest jump that I was able to stick on a FAIRLY FLEXIBLE Oxygen Proton 168 GS. I do know the difference between the table and a kicker and a roller and a lip . . . I was talking about a transfer from SIDE to SIDE (over tables). I also enjoy hiting kickers and go off the side. In terms of "teaching people" - my most valuable advise to new jumpers is "Don't try to speed-check while still in the air . . . " :D Yea, I was replying to the other post when I mentioned the difference between tables and kickers. So are you saying the table top was 40 ft long... or wide? Anyways, I really do suggest you try going over a jump straight, it is just *much* easier than going over the sides once you can get over the mental fear of a bigger jump. You're advice is actually very observant... people land on edge because they panic at their speed and are trying to slow down *immediately* and are too afraid to wait until they ride out the landing because speed-checking... and hence speed-check early... sometimes so early they haven't touched the snow yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaucke Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by GeoffV I still look for lips and will hit them, but don't get the big air I use to in my college days. I've always hit jumps with an alpine set up. Geoff, didn't this lead to a broken board a couple seasons back? Just something to note for people that hurting equipment is doable. I saw Geoff land well too, but I'm pretty sure he cracked his board just from the size of the air. I still do jumps on my alpine setup, but nothing like my freestyle days. Small tables I'll do, but no kickers. Small little stuff like bumps in the trail and steep pitch changes are what I like the most, with a grab or 180 or 360. I think it's best to stick with smooth, low (but not neccessarily short) air and keep it safe. The whole reason I went to alpine was being hurt jumping. Now I go as low as I can instead of as high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by klaucke Geoff, didn't this lead to a broken board a couple seasons back? Just something to note for people that hurting equipment is doable. I saw Geoff land well too, but I'm pretty sure he cracked his board just from the size of the air. I still do jumps on my alpine setup, but nothing like my freestyle days. Small tables I'll do, but no kickers. Small little stuff like bumps in the trail and steep pitch changes are what I like the most, with a grab or 180 or 360. I think it's best to stick with smooth, low (but not neccessarily short) air and keep it safe. The whole reason I went to alpine was being hurt jumping. Now I go as low as I can instead of as high. If the jump was built properly and he landed well (i.e. stomped flat on the base and not on the nose or tail and rode away flat) I think it's virtually impossible to break the board just based on the size of the air because you are just compressing it. Now if he landed even a little bit on his edge or nose/tail... then all the person's weight swings into a tiny part of the board and can snap it. For a demonstration... hold a toothpick towards one end and press the other end into your desk, you should be able to snap it easily. That's what happens when you don't land on a flat board. Now try to break the toothpick when it's flush against the table, I seriously doubt you can (you can even palm it in your hand and slam it flat again the desk and I still doubt you can break it). I've hit 65+ foot ramp jumps that throw you at least 20 feet in the air (the takeoff point is already 10 feet above the ground) and I don't notice much of a difference in force landing wise. The bigger jumps *should* have steeper landings to compensate... so the "impact" is the same, you are just going wicked fast (50+ mph). If the jump is made poorly, all bets are off, but you should be always scout out the jump beforehand and watch other people go over it... although I admit I was the first and only person to hit the 65+ jumps in the Kirkwood superpark some weekends (they reshape them each week and so they are slightly different). Of course I was just going straight and some weekends there are guys spinning rodeos and 720's off of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider Yea, I was replying to the other post when I mentioned the difference between tables and kickers. So are you saying the table top was 40 ft long... or wide? Anyways, I really do suggest you try going over a jump straight, it is just *much* easier than going over the sides once you can get over the mental fear of a bigger jump. You're advice is actually very observant... people land on edge because they panic at their speed and are trying to slow down *immediately* and are too afraid to wait until they ride out the landing because speed-checking... and hence speed-check early... sometimes so early they haven't touched the snow yet. 1) 40ft LONG. I'm NOT doing a transfer on a 40ft WIDE table, even if I ever find one in our parts (East coast) 2) Advice based on experience . . . And AASI teachings . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Originally posted by Stan 1) 40ft LONG. I'm NOT doing a transfer on a 40ft WIDE table, even if I ever find one in our parts (East coast) 2) Advice based on experience . . . And AASI teachings . . . Yea, that's what I was wondering since tabletops tend to be skinny. We do have 40 ft wide tabletops here on the west coast that have 2-3 takeoff "points" (think of two tabletops fused together at the "hip"). I've transferred from the center ramp to the left transition before on this small 20x40x5' tables before... the craziest one I've seen is two 40x15x10' ft tabletop that are 15' apart... you hit the lip at an angle transfer from one table to the other. While technically not that much harder, you could seriously get eaten if you over/undershoot. You've taken AASI freestyle lessons? How are they? I went to High Cascade Snowboard Camp and picked up a bunch of useful tips on spinning and halfpipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tigger Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 have a look at http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/V4/L0/S10001/multimedia_Lng0_Spo10001.shtml watch the video below:eek: i dont know where to find the complete video of the extremebrothers anymore. Or see the old hardattack video with triple backflips in hardboots!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by tigger have a look at http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/V4/L0/S10001/multimedia_Lng0_Spo10001.shtml watch the video below:eek: i dont know where to find the complete video of the extremebrothers anymore. Or see the old hardattack video with triple backflips in hardboots!!!! The video has some sweet carving... but the freestyle is very very mediocre... notice how often they cut away from the jump before the carver lands... whenever that happens it's because he/she ate it on the landing (they only put in the "impressive" crashes where they eat it big time in new and interesting ways). Going back... I think they landed about 1 out of 8 jumps, and most of those were not even that big... no grab, a mediocre at about 30 seconds, one guys tries a 360 and he's completely off axis and is going to slam really hard. Now hard attack video is soooo much better... those guy ere awesome. Huge hits and drops... back flips, grabs... that video has it a ton of great stuff. For all you carvers who want to eventually become decent at freestyle... emulate those guys. Actually anyone should try and be like those guys - they are complete boarders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Kenny Mollica, last years slalomskateboard world champion- does back flips Naked on his hard boot alpine set up. No lie. ask to see a picture on the gong show on ncdsa.com ________ VAPORIZER WHOLESALE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by John Gilmour Kenny Mollica, last years slalomskateboard world champion- does back flips Naked on his hard boot alpine set up. No lie. ask to see a picture on the gong show on ncdsa.com Umm... if it had been "Kelly Monica" instead I might have gone to check it out :D :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider Yea, that's what I was wondering since tabletops tend to be skinny. We do have 40 ft wide tabletops here on the west coast that have 2-3 takeoff "points" (think of two tabletops fused together at the "hip"). I've transferred from the center ramp to the left transition before on this small 20x40x5' tables before... the craziest one I've seen is two 40x15x10' ft tabletop that are 15' apart... you hit the lip at an angle transfer from one table to the other. While technically not that much harder, you could seriously get eaten if you over/undershoot. You've taken AASI freestyle lessons? How are they? I went to High Cascade Snowboard Camp and picked up a bunch of useful tips on spinning and halfpipe. I'm AASI Level I certified - taught at Hunter Mtn. for four years . . . Will be taking a break for at least couple of years - baby on the way . . . Lessons - I've had to take at least 8 hours of training per season as a part of the job description, usually took more than that. Actually, all the free training you get is one of the perks of the job . . . ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by Stan I'm AASI Level I certified - taught at Hunter Mtn. for four years . . . Will be taking a break for at least couple of years - baby on the way . . . Lessons - I've had to take at least 8 hours of training per season as a part of the job description, usually took more than that. Actually, all the free training you get is one of the perks of the job . . . ;o) Cool, a couple of my friends from college were instructors - Rob worked at Mt. Snow as a Level II instructor (I thought it was PSIA, but I can never keep the organizations straight). He said he really liked the free "instructor" lessons as well - although the Level III exam is apparently really hard because not only do you have to be an expert rider... you have to better than them and *teach* them. So he just kind of took the lessons for himself and not actually to get the Level III certification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider Cool, a couple of my friends from college were instructors - Rob worked at Mt. Snow as a Level II instructor (I thought it was PSIA, but I can never keep the organizations straight). He said he really liked the free "instructor" lessons as well - although the Level III exam is apparently really hard because not only do you have to be an expert rider... you have to better than them and *teach* them. So he just kind of took the lessons for himself and not actually to get the Level III certification. For a part-timer like myself - Level I is sufficient. Level II takes some serious work, and Level III - last I heard 9 out of 10 people taking it - usually fail in one or other aspect (it's a multi-part exam, includes writing, teaching, riding, professionalism . . .) AASI is a snowboarding-specific red-headed step-child of PSIA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Originally posted by Stan For a part-timer like myself - Level I is sufficient. Level II takes some serious work, and Level III - last I heard 9 out of 10 people taking it - usually fail in one or other aspect (it's a multi-part exam, includes writing, teaching, riding, professionalism . . .) AASI is a snowboarding-specific red-headed step-child of PSIA... Ah, I see. Yea, he was a part-timer for a while, and then his software company went in a downward spiral - leaving him with a nice car, decent savings, but no job. So to "recharge" he went to the mountains for a while. He said he went for the Level II because you can do higher end private lessons and those customers tend to give you very nice tips which sometimes are more than what you earned for that day salary-wise :D He was a great teaching assisant at school, very patient and encouraging - even to kids who skipped class and then tried to code with two fingers. I always a bit "surly" to students who came unprepared and then expected extra help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapofTaziFoSho Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I still have my 00 Burton Balance 148.5 for this duty. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Originally posted by skategoat The problem in the East is that the landing areas are usually very hard and icey. Very narrow margin of error and if you have your weight even a little bit back, the board will shoot out from under you on landing and the last thing you'll remember is the crack of your coconut hitting the ground. Typically the last thing you remember in a situation like that is actually a couple seconds *before* impact. For example, you might remember bombing toward the jump, but not hitting the lip, getting air, or what went wrong with the landing. Or you might remember seeing a stop sign out of the corner of your eye, but not the blue minivan that totalled the car your dad let you borrow. (I mean, hypothetically speaking, of course.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Yes Thomas we should hook up! I just ordered my pass and I should be there pretty much every weekend plus the midweek occasional evening or day off of work. You can email me at delaminator(at)gmail.com. Have you found www.snowboardseattle.com yet? It's a nice little community of Seattle area boarders (and a couple skiers) exchanging snow reports and stuff. I post there as 'hardboots.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thomas_m Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Thank Nate! I just registered. Once the hill opens, I'll give you a yell. We're probably headed down to Timberlne this weekend, just can't wait any longer... T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider He said he went for the Level II because you can do higher end private lessons and those customers tend to give you very nice tips which sometimes are more than what you earned for that day salary-wise :D He was a great teaching assisant at school, very patient and encouraging - even to kids who skipped class and then tried to code with two fingers. I always a bit "surly" to students who came unprepared and then expected extra help. Hunter (where I taught) has implemented a policy where ALL levels of instructors have to teach (including the Director) and they have to teach ALL LEVELS OF STUDENTS. So being AASI Lvl I or Lvl III made pretty much no difference what type of clients you get. Now, if you do a good enough job, they may come back and request YOU specifically - that's when you are cashing in . . . ;o) And there's NOTHING wrong with coding with two fingers... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camberpopper Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 use to love hittin big headwalls on the racwboard! Sweet!!! Carve,carve,shhhh,land,carve. hittin heather canyon on Mt.Hood .Got to have a bit wider board for Heather. Heather canyon is more of a drop off. anywere from 5ft.drop to 30ft.drop. If anyone has been to Mt.Hood, I hope you checked out Heather Canyon @ Timberline. SWEET!!! Im totally stoked thinking back to hose "good times"!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Originally posted by Stan Hunter (where I taught) has implemented a policy where ALL levels of instructors have to teach (including the Director) and they have to teach ALL LEVELS OF STUDENTS. So being AASI Lvl I or Lvl III made pretty much no difference what type of clients you get. Now, if you do a good enough job, they may come back and request YOU specifically - that's when you are cashing in . . . ;o) And there's NOTHING wrong with coding with two fingers... :D That's a good policy... because for the first few years of riding, I was very anti-beginner lesson because I was worried that my beginners were being saddled with rookie instructors. Well, ok... if you can code at 30+ words a minutes with two fingers :D but I'm borderline ADD and I remember people sitting there trying to figure out how to use vi and I was just sitting growing old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlpentalRider Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Originally posted by thomas_m Thank Nate! I just registered. Once the hill opens, I'll give you a yell. We're probably headed down to Timberlne this weekend, just can't wait any longer... T. I'll be riding Alpental tuesdays, thursday nights, and hopefully sundays as well with my buddies. So if you guys wanna hook up let me know, I live just 20 min away from the mountain hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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