alpine stuff in cut up pow

[Fastskiguy]

So back around chicago we've got moderate groomed terrain and short runs. Today at Sun Valley we got 10" of fresh stuff on long, steep runs so it was a little different than our normal conditions. My brother was buzzing along on his big mountain skis no problem but I was bouncing around all over the place in the cut up chop. I was able to stay loose and keep my upper body pretty quiet but the board just hopped, skidded, and jumped all over. Now I know that an alpine board and hard boots aren't maybe ideal for these conditions but are there any tricks to cutting thru it better? Or is it better to just get on some fatty skis and wait to rip the carving stick another day? Thanks :)

[terekhov]

alpine board + hardboots is GOOD in chopped up powder. my girlfriend on coiler 180rc,

[Neil Gendzwill]

No trouble here.

[dano]

alpine board + hardboots is GOOD in chopped up powder. my girlfriend on coiler 180rc,

Yumpin' yiminy!

That said, I need an all mountain board after it gets all chopped up.

I only pull out the race stuff with perfect conditions, usually in the morning...

[lamby]

Hi Fastskiguy,

I was up on Baldy yesterday riding plates and hard boots - riding an old 163 Burton e-deck. I ride plates almost all the time (was on soft gear earlier in the week - just for fun - but my soft bindings and soft boots hurt my feet).

Yesterday I had my bindings set back a bit further than usual. I love riding plates and hard boots on "new snow" days.

As the day progresses and things get chopped up I find myself slowing down quite a bit. If I try to go fast when it is all crunched up and bumpy I get bucked around too much.

The skiers seem to have some advantages - having their legs attached to independent skis seems to help them suck up the bumps.

Have fun. Going up today? See you on the slopes!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Yumpin' yiminy!

That said, I need an all mountain board after it gets all chopped up.

I only pull out the race stuff with perfect conditions, usually in the morning...

Yeah, my caveat is that I ride a Coiler AM. Probably wouldn't want something super-stiff or narrow.

[lamby]

What deck are you riding? I have some softer decks that you are welcome to try (165 burton fusion, 172 burton coil...).

[philw]

Well it all depends how nasty it is. I'd say that a board is easier on most crud you find at resorts. If it's frozen hard then it's obviously unpleasant for everyone, but if it's just cut up crud then you can generally blast through it with less deviation than skiiers seem to get. I don't think board width matters much as you're basically riding piste or stuff which was pisted by others.

[Jack M]

A wide enough alpine board will do well in cut up powder. My board has a 21cm waist and it conquers all!! I had an absolute blast in an 18" dump last year, and I am taking it to Jackson Hole next month. It's not even an "all-mountain" alpine board per se, just a wide carving board.

[BigBump]

Keeping the lowerbody loose to absorb the crud is definitely needed but as the speed increases, the rider needs to be more active and less passive.

I use a fast leg retraction to help absorb the crud. As I see crud bumps coming at me, I pull my legs up fast and for larger ones I pull my front leg slightly higher than the back so the nose lifts up to help the board go over the bumps.

You can try the move with no gear on. Just stand in your riding position and quickly raise your feet off the floor without raising your hips higher off the floor. It's a quick move, and you won't be getting your feet very high off the floor, but that quick unweighting really helps.

[lamby]

by your gps it looks like you were staying on the groomers. I was approaching the mountain a little differently yesterday (and today). I was mainly ridding off-piste, enjoying one of our rare days of significant snow fall. We have been skiing the groomed runs that are open over and over again, so a chance to get under the lifts, touch into the trees a bit on a bump run or two, and generally ride powder is what I was looking to do. By the end of the day I'm beat and often the groomers beat me up more on the way out. Going to go check the radar as there is a chance we might get some more snow tonight (thus the short day today to try and not have noodles for legs in the a.m.) Hope you had a blast up there today!

[KingCrimson]

Every time I ride in chop I get way better on groom..

The GS Coiler was great in trees as long as I didn't take too many turns. I treated it like sailing; I did a broad reach 45* degrees to the fall line and "tacked" when I had a good spot.

In my experience, the big trick to it all is keeping very low in the chop but not giving the board a whole lot of input. (To clarify, not concerning yourself with "feeding the dollar," the bumps and give of the snow will naturally kick you off the back) I've learned to just let the board do its thing, and even if it gets bucked up in the air to trust that it will re-engage. As far as fore-aft when approaching a bump, I stay centered (new school board with lots of setback, your mileage may vary) because that's the way I learned in the park and its served me well.

[BlueB]

For me h/boots and plates are the way to go for chop. When I do it on softies and ride hard my feet and ankles always suffer. With plates you can simply power through the stuff that you would have to nagotiate on softies.

Now, when it comes to the board selection, that's what it really matters. While the new race shapes float and slice way better then the old ones, due to nose rocker, taper and softer flex, the GS board is not necesserilly the best choice. For me, slightly wider works better. Gentle nose rise is better then abrupt. Damp is better then springy. New school AM boads, as well as the new hybrids (wide mellow freecarvers, bx boards) get job done very well. Also longer narrower freeride boards with plates work great.

I'd rather have a longer board for medium pitch and shorter for the steeps.

As for the technique, it changes with the conditions and pitch.

For a medium pitch, or flatter, with chop and only mini soft bumps, one can just go for it and carve. A bit of committment helps - getting board on the edge right away would help slicing through, while riding on the flat base in the transitions takes the risk of getting bounced around. Very centered style helps too - easier to recover in either direction. Nose loading is a nono.

On steep pitch and bigger bumps, I pretty much forget about carving and play/surf the bumps. Flexion/extension and timing is the key, as well as planning ahead.

The trickies are the mixed conditions, where bigger bumps are just starting to emerge. One should be ready to switch from one mode to another in a split second.

Oh, almost forgot - flexier boots and bindings work better.

[Dave ESPI]

when the trails get so bad with lumps of dough over ice, I fear the plates are not the way to go due to rapid changes in veloscity change with density of snow and I've taken a few high speed tumbles too many to go out and rip around on a carver once the freshie is skied into piles between tractor tread ice and boilerplate under it. Just not worth the risk later in the day on high volume traffic runs. If its just a pure powday and not too bad, I completely agree that plates and a wider board will rule over softies hands down for blasting thru in a "surfy" style; and a lot less tiring!

[Fastskiguy]

I'm on a prior designed by mort, about 23cm wide, has metal construction but no early rise, 175cm, I'm 200# and like the way the board rides. I like the idea of getting a little more active with extension and retraction. I'll give it a try tomorrow, I'm encouraged by most of you saying it's doable. Today we were at Dollar Mt. for about 2 1/2 hours in the afternoon with super duper flat light, pretty tough conditions. Tomorrow..back to the big mountain! Thanks guys :)