AC/DC softie stance poll

[John Gilmour]

Which is why softies aren't designed to be ridden at that high of an angle. Riding softboots like they are hardboots just doesn't work, or at least doesn't work well, IMO.

I would agree with that... except some soft boot gear can be ridden with steep angles and with excellent results..

We can ride at SES and I'll let you try it out... what size foot are you?

IMHO snow can get soo hard.... that soft boots and soft bindings, and softer flexing freeride boards are simply.... a handi-cap. This happens a lot of the time on the east coast where IMHO you are better off in hardboots about 70-85% of the days on snow.

In Aspen... well.. we get less than 5 of those type of days. So when Ray is in town, I want to be in Hardboots, and when I ride with my other local friends I swapped to soft boots so I wasn't always waiting... then I swapped to a powder board to further handicap.

Now, I am considering looking for an older Burton safari to t-nut. Ideally funny would be a Sims 1710 Blade... which was the first board that really felt carvy.

But seeing as I'll still likely be waiting... I'm going to have to rejoin the hardboot herd.

bought Fins used boots. and got another set of 27.5's for spare used.

[OhD]

Most softies are designed to have lots of lateral flex, so riding with them at high angles is like autocrossing on snow tires or skiing in loafers. My DriverX's are fairly stiff fore-and-aft, and laterally stiff for a softboot, but at anything over about 20 they are inadequate to edge any board they'd fit on (SIze 12). Riding softies, I run a Venture Zephyr wide (27cm) and Burton C60's at +15/-6 and can lay out a full-blown EC on toeside. I have a bit of overhang on heelside, so can't lay it out quite as well that way, but it's not because of flex or slop in the boots because thay are oriented as designed. It takes surprisingly little ankle/calf power to do this - just bend zee knees. The lateral flex allows me to shift weight between nose and tail - not that I do much of that - I guess it's useful for jibbing and stupid board tricks.

Lateral flex in the boots will be compensated for somewhat by the binding highbacks, but they aren't generally intended to handle that kind of load either, and you'll wind up busting them and/or torturing your legs. Unless you have a 3-strap binding you can't expect much lateral support from the highback even if you are pressing hard against it.

[Hans]

about 35/30 on groomers and 30/25 on deep snow with a little setback.

All on my Pogo Longboard 175.

[Dr D]

I haven't found any conditions too soft for my hard boots. But then, my hard boots are pretty soft, as hard boots go.

The stuff that folds noses and breaks boards is what I am refering to.

The technique is different it is much more active in the feet and ankles. If you try and drive it with your quads it won't work. you gotta feel the board and just go with the flow. I can lay the lunch tray over until my ass is draggin with no problems at all. So it can and is done!

Come out to the WTF at big mtn I will give you a clinic :lol:

[John Gilmour]

Most softies are designed to have lots of lateral flex, so riding with them at high angles is like autocrossing on snow tires or skiing in loafers. My DriverX's are fairly stiff fore-and-aft, and laterally stiff for a softboot, but at anything over about 20 they are inadequate to edge any board they'd fit on (SIze 12). Riding softies, I run a Venture Zephyr wide (27cm) and Burton C60's at +15/-6 and can lay out a full-blown EC on toeside. I have a bit of overhang on heelside, so can't lay it out quite as well that way, but it's not because of flex or slop in the boots because thay are oriented as designed. It takes surprisingly little ankle/calf power to do this - just bend zee knees. The lateral flex allows me to shift weight between nose and tail - not that I do much of that - I guess it's useful for jibbing and stupid board tricks.

Lateral flex in the boots will be compensated for somewhat by the binding highbacks, but they aren't generally intended to handle that kind of load either, and you'll wind up busting them and/or torturing your legs. Unless you have a 3-strap binding you can't expect much lateral support from the highback even if you are pressing hard against it.

---not all softboos have tons of lateral flex...

The Burton Andy warhola nd Burton Ion are very rigid,,, in contrast teh Burton SLX is completely inappropriate for high stance angle use..

Pretty easy to check.. just bend them in teh store.

You can add lateral stiffness using soccer shin guards in between the boot and liner... but really.... just find a decent soft boot if you intend to carve At all.. find one with lateral stiffness because you still need fore to aft rigidity too.

And highbacks... are not at all equal... most suck for carving.

I am constantly amazed by my 2007 Union force DLX highbacks..for instance and that is a commercially available binding at a cheap price.

But toss me in a burton binding- or a K2 or even K2 clicker boots...and I just can not make it work.

[Dr D]

ITs all in the gear and some minor style/technique adjustments.

you have to get lower and there is lots of rise and fall. I find that as long as I have room to drop lower I can hold an edge. when I bottom out with my legs the edge is gonna get loose. ITs all about driving my weight down into the edge.

[eajracing]

This is not for the ice coasters or boiler plate riding. It excells in conditions that are to soft for hard boots. I can carve long after the hardboot only crowd has called it a day due to conditions. We can go a month with nothing but powder here and bottomless soft groomers. I still love the carve so I have adapted.

I can honestly say the thought of riding high softie angles in bottomless pow never has crossed my mind. I can see it for big open bowls though - similar to the other threads of those who ride plates on heli trips. My eastcoast brain focuses more on riding the boilerplate that keeps the amateur hour off the hill....

If i'm ever out your way... I'll give it a shot. Until then... keep heaping the salt into the wounds. Despite the initial irritation of realizing i live in place with no bottomless days, it's nice to live pow-vicariously.

All that said, back in '05 when i had a chance to ride the bottomless stuff I found myself fighting with the high angles in the trees and on a good friends (hard booter as well) advice, I dropped the back foot to duck, just enough to keep the toes from hanging and it worked like a charm when the trees got tight. I've been doing that since and had great results the last two winter's cat trips. Would you ride 45+'s in trees?

maybe i'll just duck it up -50/+50, hope my knees/hips etc hold out and go for a laugh in the lift line... although if memory serves correct, I may have rode that back in '96 on a 147 twin and a 28" stance.... (don't worry - still had a PJ6)

[John Gilmour]

well at that size foot- you would be riding pretty flat again. I think soft boots have made a huge leap forward in the past 2 years.

The liners are really improved.. I am shocked that my Burton warhols have not packed out bit even though they are laced tight, strapped down tighter, and ridden even harder.

The Warhol is laterally stiffer than the standard Hail. The lenticular graphic patch is responsible for that... They are almost "cast like" when battened down. But the best part is..they are an articulated cast with the articulated cuff- that has a flex limiter..and progressive flex.. I am sure I ahve better support in these soft boots than I had with my red hardshell Koflach Valuga lites (ski touring hardshells) or my Koflach Albona boots in the 1980's- But they feel softer than say Nordica SBH or Nordica TR-9's. They are tons laterally stiffer than my original Salomon Malamutes, or Airwalks.

I just scored another pair on ebay a few hours ago.. cost me $150... I am stocking up as I feel they worked better than any other boot of 2 seasons ago, and last year and this year. I now own 4 pairs... 3 brand new in reserve. Newer boots all seem a lot softer laterally than these.

Heres your ticket... $134

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NIB-250-Burton-Andy-Warhol-Snowboard-Boots-8-5_W0QQitemZ370310902009QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Snowboard_Boots?hash=item56383ff0f9#ht_2712wt_1167

they run true to size- and fit average to medium wide feet.

Are you goofy or regular? I have a set of Catek Freeride 2's that you can use to get an idea of the interface... it is stiff enough to EC in.

[John Gilmour]

and so if you can learn to carve on softboots... well it makes people think....and ty.

If I carve on plates... people think.. "oh he can do that because he is on a race board in hard boots... My soft boot board isn't for that. I don't want to have to wear hardboots to carve."

But if they see I can do this on a powder board..they might think..."Hey if he can carve on a powder board I bet I could carve on my directional freeride board- I think I'll try it"

And

If they start carving in soft boots... and they want to learn aboutteh technique.. they will head to the web and look up snowbaord carving... and then perhaps softboot carving... IF they see good footage of plates... they might be hooked enough to try it.

I just went to hard boots because the pain in soft boots was unbearable.

20 years later

I just went to soft boots because the pain was unbearable. (The shin bang from my Head boots with packed out liners) And the cost of new liners just priced me out. I sometimes had to take 2 days off from a day of hard riding with plates from the shin pain.

How much shin pain do I get in my Warhols.. ZERO ZIP NADA ZILCH.

But now that I can carve well in both set ups...I can ride my plates.. and not have to stay off the snow - I can carve in my soft boots on my "non plate pseudo "off days".

That being said... something is coming from Switzerland tomorrow..Hint #1 and it ain't chocolates. Hint # 2 they don't have split tails.

[ajcannon]

I used to ride whatever angle would keep my toes and heels on the board. Strangely I think my rear foot ended up with a steeper angle due to the narrower part of the board back there. I had a lot of fun riding soft flexy boards in soft snow with that setup.

[slopestar]

custom 162

15/-3

-3 puts back foot (inside of stance) straight across board

I never change my stance for any occaision/pow or otherwise. Back in the day I used to ride terje stance...21/9 great for big mountain freeriding and speed. I am thinking of doing this with hardboots on the freestyle board at similar angles just for fun...

[slopestar]

custom 162

15/-3

-3 puts back foot (inside of stance) straight across board

I never change my stance for any occaision/pow or otherwise. Back in the day I used to ride terje stance...21/9 great for big mountain freeriding and speed. I am thinking of doing this with hardboots on the freestyle board at similar angles just for fun...

I like riding switch when legs start to get tired. This stance allows me to carve well and when going switch, not having to look over the shoulder...

[mnfusion]

On my Bx boards I ride a 33/24.

On my park board I ride a 15/ -9.

[newcarver]

28-30 front 15-20 rear. Pretty comfortable with this on most boards and conditions. Used to ride duck when I started. Don't try tricks and don't ride switch much now that I'm older. I can't ride those new fangled boards with the huge stance though. Kills my knees at over 21" with 30" inseam.

[Dr D]

I can honestly say the thought of riding high softie angles in bottomless pow never has crossed my mind. I can see it for big open bowls though - similar to the other threads of those who ride plates on heli trips. My eastcoast brain focuses more on riding the boilerplate that keeps the amateur hour off the hill....

If i'm ever out your way... I'll give it a shot. Until then... keep heaping the salt into the wounds. Despite the initial irritation of realizing i live in place with no bottomless days, it's nice to live pow-vicariously.

All that said, back in '05 when i had a chance to ride the bottomless stuff I found myself fighting with the high angles in the trees and on a good friends (hard booter as well) advice, I dropped the back foot to duck, just enough to keep the toes from hanging and it worked like a charm when the trees got tight. I've been doing that since and had great results the last two winter's cat trips. Would you ride 45+'s in trees?

maybe i'll just duck it up -50/+50, hope my knees/hips etc hold out and go for a laugh in the lift line... although if memory serves correct, I may have rode that back in '96 on a 147 twin and a 28" stance.... (don't worry - still had a PJ6)

I ride a surf stance in the pow. 45/ 10 or so. We get groomers that are sometimes soft enough to cut a trench 6 inches or better. the power of a hard boot can bury the nose and launch you into next week. I don't have the problem with high angle softies. I can ride them in pow but usually get out the big swallowtail and surf on those days.