Sultan Guy Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 OK, I have spent many hours on this forum reading different setup questions and have read all of Jack's excellent stuff but since I am all alone on the mountain and am new, I thought that some fellow bombers can give me some advice. I am riding a Prior 174 4WD with TD3's mounted centered in a 19.75" stance. Front angle is 50 and rear 45. Rear heel cant is 3 inline with my foot and 0 front cant. Boot size is 28. 6 feet tall 32" inseam. I am getting some pretty decent heel side carves but am struggling to get the toe side to initiate. I have tried Jack's suggestions of dropping the hips and that helps but it is still difficult. It seems like many people have moved their bindings forward somewhat to help this issue. I have them centered on the insert pattern. Does anyone have some experience with this board model? Suggestions for how much forward to move my bindings? Or perhaps I just need to get better at dropping my hips...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarder_Ted Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 I have 3 Priors and I too find they like to be ridden with the bindings mounted toward the nose. The problem is perhaps least noticeable with the 4wd but I'd give it a shot anyway. You can always change it back. So having said that, it's entirely possible the problem stems more from technique than from binding placement. You say your heelside is fine but have problems with toeside. Sounds like more time on snow is in order.:D Keep practicing, focus on dropping your hips but don't reach for the snow. Watch the many videos posted up here and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 This is very hard without seeing you ride or complete setup from many angles. I'll give it a shot, though... Hard initiation can be caused by few things: - Stiffness of the board vs. rider weight/speed/aggression - Binding setup - Technique I'll dismiss the board factor. You are more or less the same size as me, except for the bigger boots and 4WD was one of my favorite boards. Binding setup, positioning on longitudinal axis should be ok, as you are right where Prior thought the rider should be. Next thing to check is that there is not much underhang. From your boot size and angles, I would say that you have a slight overhang. Next, the bias of the bindings towards toe or heel edge. If the binding is set to place the boot too much over one edge, initiation of that turn would be favored while the other edge would suffer. Let's assume this is ok too (but double check it later). Technique First we need to look for possible flaws, then we'll discuss the various techniques and what works better on what kind of board. Most common flaws would be riding in the back seat (too little weight on the front foot at the beggining of the turn); riding too tall (straight legs); lack of flexion/extension or timing; lack of ankle/knee drive to get the edge angle and steering. Focus on these components, one at the time and make sure everything happens the way it should. Next, various techniques to get "there". Whatever you do, it is important to unweigh the board enough to enable ankles and knees to roll it into the next turn. You can achieve that by up-unweighing (think "jump"), or down-unweighing (think "suck-in"). Next, the set of "driving" moves to roll the board on the new edge. Basically, you have the choice of rotating upper body into the turn and applying more of the toe pressure with knee pressure to the toes, or staying aligned with your stance (or even slightly countering), while driving the hip into the new turn while putting pressure latterally using the cuffs of your boots and ball of your front foot / pinky toe of the rear foot. For me personally, to ride a wider board and lower binding angles, it is easier to do down-unweighing combined with rotation and hell-toe/knee technique. However, you should be able to use both techniques (and combinations in between) given the reasonable binding angles (between 45 and 65, I would say). Try various things and see what worked best for you... Clear as the mud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ear dragger Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I agree with the other posts. but some toe lift is a great thing. it's possible your'e not turning the shoulders and the head enough into the turn, but i really can't say. Keep on carving!! you'll get the toe side soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Good choice of board and your set up looks good. I have that same board and I ride mine with a 20'' stance and angles of 45 front and 40 rear but I have smaller boots- size 26. I also ride it with Bomber td3 step in 3degree in front and 6 degree in back. Fun board and can be ridden eaiser than a full race deck if you want. Keep at it you will get it figured out. Blue B gave some great suggestions on things to keep in mind while riding. You will find that this board is very versatile and can be ridden all mountain not just on groomed snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan Guy Posted December 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Bomber team, thanks for the suggestions. I also just got an extra 3 degree cant disk and will try that on the front foot. Heading out tommorrow to try these ideas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 it also looks like you could have some boot drag there. that can blow a carve if conditions are hard enough. you should probably fix that, and while you're at it, maybe experiment with binding angles that are closer to parallel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 it also looks like you could have some boot drag there. that can blow a carve if conditions are hard enough. you should probably fix that, and while you're at it, maybe experiment with binding angles that are closer to parallel. Do you find it's on hard snow? I never have the issue on hard snow (my angles are correct anyway) but I definitely get boot out in soft snow, I can tell it's about to happen when I feel my leash bite the snow, especially if I quickly try and tighten up a turn midway through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Do you find it's on hard snow? I never have the issue on hard snow (my angles are correct anyway) but I definitely get boot out in soft snow, I can tell it's about to happen when I feel my leash bite the snow, especially if I quickly try and tighten up a turn midway through. Seems to me that your boots are more likely to drag in soft snow but not be a big problem ... In hard snow, (it would seem that) if your boots hit the ground you are going to go down, because the pressure of the boot against the hard surface would lift your edges out of the snow and cause you to blow out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I feel it more problematic on hard surface due then you will loose edge hold fully, on soft snow you wil just loose speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Great board choice -- keep at it . I ride the same board and also Priors 179 4WD and agree with Jack -- a little more parallel on the bindings. This 174 4WD is one of the easiest to ride boards there is and it is so forgiving. Rides well on anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan Guy Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Wow...what a difference a few small changes can make. I moved both bindings forward a quarter of an inch or one slot in the TD3 plus added a 3 degree toe cant disk on my front foot instead of the zero. Way easier to intiate the toeside, and I could stay lower longer with less effort. A real eye opener for how small changes can have a huge effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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