Double check me here... going to be my first year carving

[lorax]

I'm Ryan from north georgia, this is a nice community you guys have going here.

I'm now 20 and have been in the snow since I was a wee little ankle biter. When I was about 14 I made the transition over to snowboarding. My aunt taught me, and I didn't know this at the time but she was carving it up in france all through the 80's. Very good boarder. Because of her background I always learned to ride with really high positive binding angles even with the softboots and freestyle boards I have been forced to use up to this point.

I'm spending a couple weeks out in steamboat this winter and I really want to invest in some real gear. Hardboots, good bindings, and a good all mountain board. Here is the formula I'm looking at right now.

I've never ridden "real" carving gear, so I don't want to be to aggressive with my setup. I'm 6', 185lb, so I'm thinking of going with a all mountain type board such as a donek axxess, coiler AM, or a prior atv. High 160's/low 170's length, with a fairly small sidecut radius (9m-11m). I also have a large foot, so the wider waist on some of the AM boards may help me avoid ridiculous binding angles. Id like to keep them around 45-50.

I'm going to try to find some good used boots to avoid hurting my wallet too badly. I may buy new bindings, since the idea of used bindings kinda freaks me out for some reason. Should I buy step ins or standard types? which is considered safer?

I measured my foot and it came out to almost exactly 29cm. Should I stick to a 29mondo or go a size above/below?

What other boards should I look at that fit those specs? (Medium stiffness, 21-23cm waist, 165-175 length, 9m-11m SCR, good all around board as this will be my only board from now on)

[fin]

Lorax,

Welcome!

You will get a ton of answers here but let me start it off:

Boards: Excellent idea with going with one of the all-mountain carve decks. We sell quite a few of these to first time hard gear buyers for just the reason you are thinking: easy to start on. And the best part is you don't outgrow the board but rather it becomes part of your quiver. And all hardboots should have an all mountain board ready to go.

Both the ATV and Axxess are excellent for you first deck. (we have both in our demo fleet if you end up out this way again). The width will work fine with you foot size as well.

Bindings: well, I am bias here, but I would get a set that you feel comfortable riding in. Used bindings should be just fine as long as they where kept in good shape. If you go with our TD3 then I would suggest a 0/3 or 3/3 cant/lift set-up and the yellow E-Rings (soft). Step-in is VERY addictive once you make the plunge. For safety, I always say the SI is the better bet as once those pins are engaged you are in that binding for good. Toe clip have been known to open but it is a very rare event. I have been in SI for 10+ years now and love it.

Boots: honestly, this is where you should spend the money. Most important part of the set-up. You'll go through many different boards but the same boot will be on your feet for a long time.

I would go with a M29 boot to be safe. Generally when we see someone at a round number (29 in your case) we go with that size. Downsize may work but it is a gamble. The shell test will also be a good indicator of where you are at. The moldable liners also make it easy to "fudge" the size a bit as they will expand/shrink somewhat to help. If you look at the Deeluxe line I would go with the Track 225 of 325. If you have a wider foot I say the Track 700 or Head but both of these boots are a bit stiffer.

Good luck and give myself or Michelle a call/e-mail if you have any direct questions on gear.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I'm Ryan from north georgia, this is a nice community you guys have going here. Welcome to BOL!!

I'm now 20 and have been in the snow since I was a wee little ankle biter. When I was about 14 I made the transition over to snowboarding. My aunt taught me, and I didn't know this at the time but she was carving it up in france all through the 80's. Very good boarder. Because of her background I always learned to ride with really high positive binding angles even with the softboots and freestyle boards I have been forced to use up to this point.

This will serve you well in alpine snowboarding. "Thank your Aunt by becoming a "Ripper""

I'm spending a couple weeks out in steamboat this winter and I really want to invest in some real gear. Hardboots, good bindings, and a good all mountain board. Here is the formula I'm looking at right now.

Check the ride board. Some excellent "Journeymen" Expert riders in that area.

I've never ridden "real" carving gear, so I don't want to be to aggressive with my setup. I'm 6', 185lb, so I'm thinking of going with a all mountain type board such as a donek axxess, coiler AM, or a prior atv. High 160's/low 170's length, with a fairly small sidecut radius (9m-11m). I also have a large foot, so the wider waist on some of the AM boards may help me avoid ridiculous binding angles. Id like to keep them around 45-50.

Good logic, stay with that theme.

I'm going to try to find some good used boots to avoid hurting my wallet too badly. I may buy new bindings, since the idea of used bindings kinda freaks me out for some reason. Should I buy step ins or standard types? which is considered safer?

That is argueable, don't let that decide your choice, more about flex. Used Bomber TD2/3 or Catek OS1/2 are not an issue used. Very stout.

I measured my foot and it came out to almost exactly 29cm. Should I stick to a 29mondo or go a size above/below? Again, only you will know. Comfort or performance ? I would go with the 29, others say go smaller.

What other boards should I look at that fit those specs? (Medium stiffness, 21-23cm waist, 165-175 length, 9m-11m SCR, good all around board as this will be my only board from now on)

Do a search or two on "all mountain carver" or "4wd" or "AM" or "Axxess" . There are MANY threads specifically about the subject.

Good luck, read, watch, learn, ride, go to SES, hang with the big dogs. RIDE, RIDE, RIDE!!!!!!!!!:biggthump

[lorax]

If you look at the Deeluxe line I would go with the Track 225 of 325. If you have a wider foot I say the Track 700 or Head but both of these boots are a bit stiffer.

I do have a fairly wide foot - Would I be alright with a stiffer boot with the more forgiving AM board, or am I going to regret that extra stiffness?

Good luck and give myself or Michelle a call/e-mail if you have any direct questions on gear.

I am sending an email your way! thanks

[BlueB]

Add the BTS to either of those boots, you'll love it, especially for AM application.

Yellow elastomers if you go TD3 route, or with TD2 add the suspension kit.

[lorax]

Add the BTS to either of those boots, you'll love it, especially for AM application.

Yellow elastomers if you go TD3 route, or with TD2 add the suspension kit.

The BTS system looks awesome... like a coilover suspension for your feet. I like the ingenuity.

[shawndoggy]

For a wider foot (I have one too), the head stratos pros may work better than the raichle/deeluxe boots. They have for me anyway. I also have relatively high arches. The raichle boots felt like they were squishing my foot from the top, but the heads feel way better.

boots are very individual though and to the extent you have the ability to try them on and get professionally fitted by a shop with a selection of boots, your chances of buying them successfully the first time goes up. Of course most of us don't have that opportunity, so we use the trial and error method.... which is fine (they hold their value reasonably well to resell) except that you don't want to be having gear issues on a multiweek ski trip.

Stock, the heads are awfully stiff, but they can be modded to get pretty flexy (including the addition of bts).

[lorax]

The chances of me getting the opportunity to try on anything before I go is zero. The closest shop to me is in maggie valley NC (cataloochie) and they don't sell anything whatsoever when it comes to carving/alpine gear.

I can relate to what you are saying about boots pressing on the top of your foot, I have experienced that before in ski boots and some snowboard softboots (Especially some cheaper burtons).

[NateW]

Lots of good advice above.

My feet are kinda wide too, and I find my UPZs way more comfortable than my Raichles. Never had issues with 'pressing down from the top' but I think my feet are kinda thin that way... it was the sideways squeeze that bothered me. My feet are 26.5cm and I wear 27 in both brands.

[tufty]

FWIW, and IMO, boot fit is vastly more important than flex. As has been said already, if you have wideish feet, the Raichle AF boots and Head boots fit wider around the toe area, and are more likely to be comfortable. Both are extremely good boots. The main problem I've found with the AF boots is not so much the way they close, but the extremely poor quality of the footbeds that come with them. This is general with pretty much every boot out there, ski or otherwise; even spending an extra 30€ or so on a pair of low-range footbeds can take a boot from excruciating to comfortable. I may go the step above this year and get some moulded footbeds for my AF700s, as my cheapos ones are dying after a couple of seasons intensive use (used every day for 4 months a year, and swapped between boots).

As for flex - if you've ever skied, you'll find even the most rigid snowboard boot feels very flexy compared to skiboots. Compared to softies, of course, it's a whole different ballpark. the mods that can be made to the head boots to soften them up generally involve cutting bits of the boot away. That "may" affect the resale value of the boot. For the AFs you can fit a BTS kit; this is reversible.

If you go second-hand, you'll likely end up with AFs that have the click-ratchet straps rather than proper buckles. They are a bit of a bugger to get used to, slightly more difficult to adjust the same every time you ride, and very occasionally they may get iced up and require a bit of deicing to make them close. Otherwise no big deal as long as they aren't utterly shagged. Bomber sell spares. For any secondhand boot, be aware that you may have to get new liners, and factor that into the price you pay (or be prepared to stick foam bits to the outside of the liner to get a proper fit if they are packed out).

Bindings are a personal thing, but as long as you inspect carefully and are willing to replace worn parts there's not much danger in going secondhand. Unless you're going step-in, of course - too many subtly hidden and breakable bits there. Balance against budget, obviously, but don't be afraid of going for the SnowPro Race (my favourite) or F2 bindings as opposed to Catek or Bomber. As an example, over here in yurpland, F2 titanium intec + heels go for half the price of standard model TD3s. Yeah, I know, burn the heretic :)

[twelsch42]

Anyone else think that Steamboat is not really the place to strap into hardboots for the first time? Don't leave your softies at home yet, you'll need them for the trees and pow-dah.

[Bobby Buggs]

Anyone else think that Steamboat is not really the place to strap into hardboots for the first time? Don't leave your softies at home yet, you'll need them for the trees and pow-dah.

Yeah, I showed up for a week at Steamboat with 4 Carving boards:freak3: and a Osin 4807. After day 2 I tried the Osin and never took it off.

Back to the og topic, I personally do not like Head boots. The limit the way people ride. If you look at 10 riders on the snow, 5 had Head boots and the others had Raichle, you would see the ones in the Head boot all has a similar riding style and they had a difficult time varying their technique to match riders in other boots. If you watch videos of people riding or see them on the hill you will be able to see what I mean. Now maybe people dont want to vary the style or technique that the Head boot forces them to adopt but you will NOT see me in Head boots.

For a board there is this Coiler and for the price you cant go wrong

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27286

[BobD]

My 2 cents on boots, would be that most people end up having problems with their first pair of boots. Mostly that they are too big, but maybe just the wrong fit, or the wrong flex. Buying cheap used boots allows you to figure what works for you, before you commit to a new pair. You can sell them on if they are no good, and all you are out is the shipping.

If you haven't been in ski boots for several years, find a store to try some on. Although ski boots vary between manufacturers, the fit is very similar to hard SB boots. It may give you an idea of the fit/size you are looking for.

BobD

[OhD]

You can get adhesive-backed foam in a bunch of grades and thicknesses from McMaster-Carr (online) and pad out a slightly oversized boot. You want to be careful to get your ankle pivot point coincident with the boot hinge - may require raising or lowering your footbed. If they aren't aligned, the cuffs will always be moving relative to your shins and your ankle will be stressed much more than it needs to be. Custom footbeds are well worth the money, but there are several brands of off-the-rack beds that come in different shapes, so see if you can find something suitable in that line and save a C-note for foam and BTS hardware. If you go with the Head boots I highly recommend the BTS (if you are fairly handy with tools and can get past the daunting disclaimer - it's unequivocably your ass!). Intec or Fintec heels are a real luxury and not much fussier to set up than standard. WHile you're shopping McMaster, pick up a good hex wrench for your bindings - they have high-torque steel that work really well, or you can get gold plated or Ti if you want the bling.

You can build up layers of thin foam or use thicker foam and feather the edges with a rasp or Dremel tool. Avoid pointy corners and hard edges.

Have fun. Watch uphill for straightliners. Turning is almost a lost art in some places. I'm sitting out most of this season due to a skier whacking me from behind last year - had to get my right shoulder overhauled.

OhD

[steamboatrailer]

When ya gonna be in the boat?Look me up or Dave Winters.There is a Monday morning gathering.So let one of us know when yer gonna be out.Get your gear before you get here.Stop at Bomber,it's on the way here.

[Ladia]

I personally do not like Head boots. The limit the way people ride. If you look at 10 riders on the snow, 5 had Head boots and the others had Raichle, you would see the ones in the Head boot all has a similar riding style and they had a difficult time varying their technique to match riders in other boots. If you watch videos of people riding or see them on the hill you will be able to see what I mean. Now maybe people dont want to vary the style or technique that the Head boot forces them to adopt but you will NOT see me in Head boots.

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27286

::lol:

Above statement has a chance to become probably one of the stupidest posted here ever.

[shawndoggy]

Yeah, I showed up for a week at Steamboat with 4 Carving boards:freak3: and a Osin 4807. After day 2 I tried the Osin and never took it off.

Back to the og topic, I personally do not like Head boots. The limit the way people ride. If you look at 10 riders on the snow, 5 had Head boots and the others had Raichle, you would see the ones in the Head boot all has a similar riding style and they had a difficult time varying their technique to match riders in other boots. If you watch videos of people riding or see them on the hill you will be able to see what I mean. Now maybe people dont want to vary the style or technique that the Head boot forces them to adopt but you will NOT see me in Head boots.

For a board there is this Coiler and for the price you cant go wrong

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27286

LOL, uncomfortable boots limit the way I ride. Heads = shawndoggy foot bliss. Flex can be worked out and mine are plenty soft now. Of course that means I own 'em, but if the boot fits....

[Bobby Buggs]

::lol:

Above statement has a chance to become probably one of the stupidest posted here ever.

Thanks, If I never met you I might be offended:ices_ange

[lorax]

When ya gonna be in the boat?Look me up or Dave Winters.There is a Monday morning gathering.So let one of us know when yer gonna be out.Get your gear before you get here.Stop at Bomber,it's on the way here.

I'm going to be there from the 21st until the 3rd, as it stands now. I'd love to get some tips from a more experienced carver.

[lorax]

My 2 cents on boots, would be that most people end up having problems with their first pair of boots. Mostly that they are too big, but maybe just the wrong fit, or the wrong flex. Buying cheap used boots allows you to figure what works for you, before you commit to a new pair. You can sell them on if they are no good, and all you are out is the shipping.

If you haven't been in ski boots for several years, find a store to try some on. Although ski boots vary between manufacturers, the fit is very similar to hard SB boots. It may give you an idea of the fit/size you are looking for.

BobD

I tried on some ski boots today - 29 felt just about right as far as the length goes. I also didn't feet like my foor was too squished horizontally. The only issue I felt is that my heel was coming up of the bottow just slightly. I could see that being an issue longterm.

I think I will definitely invest in a good moldable liner and have a professional mold them for me once I get out there. I'm currently thinking about a used set of deeluxe suzukas that are already equipped with the BTS.

I could afford to buy new boots, heads for example, but like you say.. if i get them and the fit is terrible, I don't want to be taking a huge depreciation hit.

[Jrobb]

I think I will definitely invest in a good moldable liner and have a professional mold them for me once I get out there. I'm currently thinking about a used set of deeluxe suzukas that are already equipped with the BTS.

.

Lorax, I have narrow feet and the Sazukas fit me well side to side.

J

[tufty]

Suzukas are a nice boot, especially with BTS already fitted.

At the risk of labouring the point, aftermarket footbeds are well worth the effort. Most ski shops will have a range "off the peg" for not very much $$$. "Superfeet" are a good brand to look for, but pretty much anything are better than the originals, especially if you have high arches. Again in the interest of reducing cost, if the liners are packed out a bit and you find fit is a problem, particularly WRT heel lift, you might want to investigate ankle wraps or the various other shims you can get from (for example) tognar before shelling out MAX DOLLAR on a pair of new liners.

For the existing liners, IIRC the Suzukas came with either Thermofit (which auto mould to your foot while you use them) or thermoflex (heat mouldable) liners. Thermofit have a velcro strap, thermoflex don't.

http://tognar.com/boot_heater_warmer_fitting_dryer_canting_dryers_ski_snowboard.html#bootshims

[NateW]

The only issue I felt is that my heel was coming up of the bottow just slightly. I could see that being an issue longterm.

Try tightening the lower buckle on the cuff. If you stop your ankle from moving forward, that also stops it from moving upward. For a couple seasons I was trying to fix this by tightening the buckle over the instep, and it didn't work that well, and it hurt too. :) On a tip from my boot fitter I started tightening the cuff more and the instep less, and it worked better and was way more comfortable. For me, that was very counter-intuitive. Very effective though.

[NateW]

You can get adhesive-backed foam in a bunch of grades and thicknesses from McMaster-Carr (online) and pad out a slightly oversized boot.

Can you recommend some foam types that they stock that have worked for you?

I was just at their site, and I had no idea there were that many kinds of foam.