Kesslers and vist/ hangl plates

[James Ong]

Hi Folks,

I am kinda curious about the plate mounting systems and how they work with the board, i checked out the vist plate at ses and can kinda see how it works.

My big question is are the boards built with plate use in mind? In particular does the stiffness or flex pattern different than a non plate board?

[bobdea]

Hi Folks,

I am kinda curious about the plate mounting systems and how they work with the board, i checked out the vist plate at ses and can kinda see how it works.

My big question is are the boards built with plate use in mind? In particular does the stiffness or flex pattern different than a non plate board?

to me boards feel stiffer with a hangl

might just be the weight though

there are specifics though, I guess the boards are built slightly different for the plate not sure if it's stiffer or softer I assume stiffer.

I also assume although I may assume wrong but I thinks they expect you to ride a plate and this is why there's inserts for them of SGs but as far as kessler goes it's custom anyway unless you get it from bola or catek.

[bobdea]

Are you sure? I don't think so, probably the other way around especially if you use the side inserts.

Bola

http://www.allboardssports.com

1-303-415-1600

yes bola, absolutely sure something is more demanding.

the board might be need to be stiffer or softer with the system IDK but I do know that it's ****ing and hard on the body.

like boards that are too stiff can do to you. heavy and you feel it.

Sorry, I made the assumption that when someone says they carry a line of boards it did not mean they can get something if you ask for it, now, if you have boards in shop that would not be custom. different thing. I assumed wrong.

sorry

now, if you go back and read my previous post I said specifically it may have just been the weight.

I put in a few days with hangls some of which were heavy bumped up low vis days that the hangl did nothing more than make me hate life.

at higher speeds where I can see I liked it better.

I base this on a coiler that is real stiff and threw me around with or without the hangl.

Bordy said the plate may have been binding up, I think he may have been right.

I say things and I feel like you take things personally, I seriously am not trying to talk smack or upset you.

[Coloradoking]

both kessler (KST) and SG (fullrace/PT) boards are designed to work with specific plates, if you flex each one you can see the flat spot in the middle of the board. (this is necessary to how the board tracks even without the plate). the kessler has a smaller flat spot because the hangls actually partially bind the board, the SG has a longer one because the vist doesn't do that as much. you can run any setup on either board (can't run hangls on fullrace/PT) and it will still work very, very well. the plate system is based purely on rider preference. the coiler boards are not built to work with the plate like the kesslers or SGs, so the experience would be different if you were on one of them.

mind you the plates just dont work for some people

[WinterGold]

Can someone explain to me how the vist plate works?

There are different ways of mounting the plate onto the board, right?

What is the difference? And how should I mount it the first time around?

[Coloradoking]

its a piece of plastic with some slots cut in it so it flexes, and it has a piece of metal on top for your bindings. thats how it works.

you need to lock out part of it with the rectangle washers, it can be the front, back or middle of the plate or any combination of the three, it's all about personal choice. as far as my opinion goes lock out your tail and leave the center and front floating to start out (this means using red loctite in the inserts and not tightening the screws all the way)

[WinterGold]

I have the plate here, but unfortunately no board to mount it to at the moment.

So I use the rectangle washers in the back and the round ones in the middle and the front? (I just have 4 rectangle washers and 6 round ones ...)

And how does the ´floating´ work?

Red Loctite and no tightening??? Sorry, I don´t get it ... Do you mean the connection to the board?

[neil sunday]

if you are not racing, i would not be bothered with the hangl plate. if you are racing, the vist or the hangl will help you with absorption. if i were simply freeriding, I would ride the sflex system and save my knees for later in life.

[WinterGold]

I have heard so many different opinions about the plates that I now want to try them myself. If I don´t like them, I will resell ...

But in the ski industry nobody would even think about using a carving ski without some kind of plate system. So there must be something ...

Can anyone elaborate further on how you mount your Vist plate?

@Coloradoking - thank you so far!

[KingCrimson]

both kessler (KST) and SG (fullrace/PT) boards are designed to work with specific plates, if you flex each one you can see the flat spot in the middle of the board. (this is necessary to how the board tracks even without the plate). the kessler has a smaller flat spot because the hangls actually partially bind the board, the SG has a longer one because the vist doesn't do that as much. you can run any setup on either board (can't run hangls on fullrace/PT) and it will still work very, very well. the plate system is based purely on rider preference. the coiler boards are not built to work with the plate like the kesslers or SGs, so the experience would be different if you were on one of them.

mind you the plates just dont work for some people

Mind if I ask why you say Coilers aren't made to work with Hangls? Mine is inserted, and Bob Dea ran it with Hangls for a little while.

[Coloradoking]

that's not exactly it, the coilers just doesnt have the specific flex pattern that the kesslers and SGs have

[Coloradoking]

okay okay i'll help you out here

you will receive the vist plate with all but 4 inserts in a bag, the 4 missing are holding the binding plates to the rails.

take the binding plates off of the rails and place 2 rectangular washers into the farthest back 2 inserts on the back foot, take 2 circular ones and attach the farthest forward on the back foot to the board as well. lock these 4 down completely.

take 2 rectangular washers (if you have the center holes on your board, if not don't worry about these unless you feel like drilling your board) and place them in the center 2 holes and lock these down completely

then take red loctite, and going 1 hole at a time, put about 2 drops of it in the holes and then tighten the screws down, leaving them a little loose so that when you flex the board, the front of the plate slides forward.

following all of this, take the binding plates and put them centered on the lower plate, attaching them with the wood screws that came in the bag. dont super-tighten these things, get them to where they have decent pressure on the binding plate then stop, or else you'll strip the plate out. (there goes $500)

then mount your bindings!

mind you you can adjust this however you want, i'm just giving an overview of how you might want to start out with this thing, you can change it up however you like (remember that you must have at least 2 rectangle washers parallel in the plate at all times or else it'll shift, then you're f**ked)

side not: i do not recommend locking the front AND back foot down at the same time, it will stop the flex of the board (THAT'S A BAD THING) in an unnatuaral and uncomfortable way.

if you don't have the center holes and you want them (DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU DECIDE YOU TRULY, TRULY WANT THE CENTER LOCKED DOWN, WHICH MEANS RIDE IT MANY TIMES IN DIFFERENT WAYS FIRST, I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS ON A BOARD WITH A METAL TOPSHEET, IT TENDS TO CRACK) then you completely lock down the whole plate in exactly where you want it, place the rectangular washers in the center holes (without screws in them) and mark the spots where they line up with the board. then remove the plate entirely and using a 5mm drill bit, make holes in those locations about 1/4 of an inch deep (DO NOT F*CK THIS UP), you can then mount your plate in the center (don't tighten the screws too much or you'll tear your board apart, these are not reinforced holes)

anyone using these instructions owes me $100, ahahaha i win.

[tpalka]

James, if you're thinking of buying one, this might be a fun summer project... I've seen a number of home-built ones, e.g.

The springs in between adjust the stiffness a bit, you get a riser with the plates (these were cut out of an old snowboard), and they seem to make a bit of difference in stiffening the board. For what it's worth,

tom.

[KingCrimson]

that's not exactly it, the coilers just doesnt have the specific flex pattern that the kesslers and SGs have

Which is?

The flatspotting, do you mean the apex of the camber curve is stretched way out or something?

Palka- Love the avatar!

[Bordy]

Which is?

The flatspotting, do you mean the apex of the camber curve is stretched way out or something?

Palka- Love the avatar!

He means that the SG and Kesslers are desighned around the plate system and almost every board they build ends up being ridden with a plate.

Bruce builds board made to mount plates on them also, most of his boards are built to be ridden with out plates since as you have read, he builds his "NSR" boards to race at a level which really doesn't invole as many athletes with plates. I have ridden all 3 boards and the rides are all different.

I will have to say the use of plates is growing there wher lots of lower level athletes ridding plates at the USASA events last week.

There is a huge difference detween the "home made" plate systems and floating plates. They work very differently, and provide different rides on stiffens and provides lift, while the good plate allow float and bend while providing dirrect inputs.

[KingCrimson]

That much I gather. But that's just telling me they work.

Qualitatively and quantitatively, what makes them work? Why doesn't an NSR work as well with plates?

[Bordy]

That much I gather. But that's just telling me they work.

Qualitatively and quantitatively, what makes them work? Why doesn't an NSR work as well with plates?

Cuz its not a Kessler or a SG flex pattern built around a plate. The NSR is a board built by the boardbuilder using experance experementing with plates and board that use plates, Not a board built around the plate and the changes it makes in input and pressure, twist and tilt, I am sure if you put a plate on your board it would make a big differance if installed properly. All real plates make a big difference. Do a search on plates I have covered this in detail in the past, a few years ago.

If you can get a hingle plate rock it out. Unless you are racing PSL at the Nor am level the plate is a bit overkill. If you have little to no flaws in your ridding then you would see lots of differences, however unless your technigue is rock solid the plate isn't going to "change" your world. Most avarage riders would benifit more from coaching then a plate.

[KingCrimson]

Don't worry, I'm not planning on using a plate, the inserts are there because it was a prototype of Bruce's. I'm still a ****ty carver on a good day. I had searched the topic when I made that first post, but I'm still either missing something or nobody has posted what I'm looking for.

I'm curious about specifics, both in qualities of flex and dimensions that make a Kessler suited to the Hangl, rather than the circle of "Because it works well" -> "They are designed for it" -> "Because it works well" etc

[Bordy]

The flex of the boards are changed to account for the torsinal change since you are adding a metal mounting plate for your bindings above the board,(twist). The for aft flex is also changed to account for the type of plate, IE one piece vist vs. two piece hangle(pressure). And lastley the board may have a waist width change to help use the extra leverage you get due to the lift(Tilt). Other then the width change there are no shape changes to the board. Most riders run between 19.5 and 21 for widths based on foot size and prefered angles.

[KingCrimson]

That's what I was looking for.

As always Bordy, thanks for keeping us up to date on stuff like this! :D

Theo

[WinterGold]

@Coloradoking - thanks so much!!! I am getting closer ... but you said at the beginning the I should fix the back and leave the middle and the front floating ... so I thought I put the 4 rectangular washers at the back and use the round washers for the middle and the front (I will be mounting to a 2010 SG, so the inserts are there ...). Why do you suggest to use only 2 rectangular washers at the back? And also rectangular washers in the middle?

[Coloradoking]

i think i said to lock out the middle, i meant to lock out the middle

the reason i recommend locking out the middle to start off is that when you lock the middle it reduces the floating on the front foot doing 2 things, helping the transition be more direct (this is good for slalom and for people just starting on this plate because it is more comfortable to start off with less change then work your way up). the rectangular washers are what lock the plate out, the circular ones allow it to shift. the reason i say only 2 in back and 2 in the middle is because the plate only comes with 4

congrats on the 2010 SG, i just picked one up myself

[Bordy]

@Coloradoking - thanks so much!!! I am getting closer ... but you said at the beginning the I should fix the back and leave the middle and the front floating ... so I thought I put the 4 rectangular washers at the back and use the round washers for the middle and the front (I will be mounting to a 2010 SG, so the inserts are there ...). Why do you suggest to use only 2 rectangular washers at the back? And also rectangular washers in the middle?

Lock all four front insert, OR all 4 rear inserts OR only the 2 middle with the full lockers. Float the middle and back if you lock the front, float the front and back if you lock the middle, float the middle and front if you lock the back.

Most of us like rear, locked. I Like rear locked for SL and Middle locked for GS try all the ways you can really feel the difference!. You can lock middle like CK said but it stop the float on half the plate. Thats the cool thing about the Vist its adjustable!

Have fun!

i also get buy with out the locktite but i check my screws often, cuz I move one plate around between 8 boards. The trick is to not crank down any of the floating screws to tight or they may bind, most new Vist plates need a few days of "break in to help every thing move well.

I tighten down the screws then flex the board and watch the floaters move, then I'll tighten just a bit more and make sure they still float.

[WinterGold]

@Bordy and Coloradoking - thank you so much!!! There is hardly any info about the plate on the net ... I think I understand now how it works. Making the plate work without the Loctite would be nice because I will be switching between two boards and also compare boards with and without plate ...

[Coloradoking]

sorry man, it just doesnt work without the loctite, the screws would come right out if you tried it without it.