Jack M Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 So, my question is with all the advancement in alpine board design in the last few years, do we need new thought given to hardboot design? The DeeLuxe, Head, and UPZ design are very old, and by using their designs, are we getting the top performance out of our fancy new board designs? Try your RL12's on a new board and get back to us! I've never been able to figure out why snowboard hardboots don't have a 0 forward lean setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 I thought I would post a few pics to go alone with Jack's these two pics are of a Black Toped Kessler built less than a month ago for a female world cup rider. Pic #1-Board laying flat on the ground, no binding or weight on the board. Pic #2-Board is weighted to take the camber out so that the inbetween the bindings is on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colintkemp Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Phifell: This is a little OT, but what bindings/plates are on that Kessler? (The reason for my question: I'm curious about the camber in the photo of the board unweighted. It looks like my 185 w/ hangl.) Thanks, Colin PS - Jack, thanks for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Phifell: This is a little OT, but what bindings/plates are on that Kessler? (The reason for my question: I'm curious about the camber in the photo of the board unweighted. It looks like my 185 w/ hangl.)Thanks, Colin PS - Jack, thanks for this thread. My pleasure. By the way, can I cite your post in my upcoming master's thesis? It's entitled "People Don't Read". ;) ;) :p I kid, I kid. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 No bindings or plate on the board at the time of the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colintkemp Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 HA! You got me Jack. Missed the no binding comment indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Try your RL12's on a new board and get back to us! I tried it already! However, my Lange RL12s are the 160 full race plug, and calling them mega-stiff is an understatement. Incredible ski race boot, but way too much for snowboarding. I was really worried I was going to snap the Kessler right in half! An experiment I do not recommend to be repeated unless you have a bottomless bank account for new boards! I've never been able to figure out why snowboard hardboots don't have a 0 forward lean setting. Agree with you on this one. For my tastes, all the hardboots out there have way too much forward lean. I always ride mine at the most upright position--front and back. Just seems like I can initiate a turn better that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Thanks Phil. I am curious about how square Kessler noses are. I know, reduction of swing weight, maximization of running length, etc, but when the board is tilted up I would think the outline of the nose has a lot to do with terrain clearance. If so, wouldn't such a square nose be an issue in bumpy terrain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 They are pushing it in my opinion as far as shape goes. I think the Black Pearls are too squared. But with the mounting position and current technique there isn't a ton of pressure on the nose so it dosen't bash into stuff, but rather tracks over things. Have you taken a look closely at the coiler's tail? Is it's camber profile similar to the nose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Have you taken a look closely at the coiler's tail? Is it's camber profile similar to the nose? I have, and no, there is a lot less "decamber" in the tail. You can sort of tell in this pic: I really don't think there would need to be as much, because the tail isn't impacting oncoming terrain like the nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 I hear what you are saying. I'll take a pic of the Kessler I'm working on this week tomorrow after riding. I haven't looked at the tail while it's on a flat surface, but eyeing down it there is some decamber in the tail, not nearly as much as the nose, but there is some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 flat noses I read somewhere that the less nose you have the more you can dampen it. I think it was on this very forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 A reason to put the dacam on is also to make them more slide friendly. Once you get over 180 ish and have full camber with a decent stiffness they are beasts to slide. The amount done in the tail helps with that function of breaking the tail loose when needed. Back in the glass board day we just used lighter biax fabrics for more twist to allow for sliding. With metal ,the thickness and therefore the torsion is predetermined. You have to control power through shaping in this case. BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Thanks for the insight Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 A reason to put the dacam on is also to make them more slide friendly. Once you get over 180 ish and have full camber with a decent stiffness they are beasts to slide. The amount done in the tail helps with that function of breaking the tail loose when needed. When I first got my NSR in December 2007, this was the first thing I noticed... that it behaved as well on a skid or slide as it did in a carve. I think I mentioned on Jack's "Game Changer" thread that my 185 felt as maneuverable as say a Donek FC 175... should have mentioned it feels as skiddable as a a freeride deck when I need it to be. Knowing I could safely put on the brakes was huge in terms of getting into the right mental state to ride more aggressively and push myself harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Good work Jack, This is what you bring to the board, Although your current involment leaves you out of the loop on whats new and cool in the world of Alpine, It nice to see you share the info with others as you learn about it. This is what you bring ot the board, I don't have the time to take pics and then write, and edit to make the thread reader friendly and BOL approved. Thanks. Decambered tails rip also....Mad smooth realese lots of acceleration, crazy platform to pressure for and aft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiomoto Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Yes, this is a great thread. Hell, I even learned something about my skis. This is what you bring to the board, Although your current involment leaves you out of the loop on whats new and cool in the world of Alpine, It nice to see you share the info with others as you learn about it. Since you don't have time for the pictures and write-ups, maybe you should work something out with Jack. That way we would all be current. Not that all of us want to spend the money on the latest and greatest, but sure would be nice to know about. I could factor into our future buying decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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