eaglez Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I agree this is sad. It is sad that the ski resorts won't mandate anything that affects their ability to make money. It is sad that the government won't mandate something that might affect votes. It is sad that ski instructors who rarely fall don't mandate helmets for beginners who DO fall. It is sad that a father and sons have to live without their wife and mother. And it is sad that she made the wrong choice here. But she made the choice, uninformed or not. Given the choice people make stupid ones quite often. 3 people died as a result of impact while skiing or boarding in my little area of the world this season alone. I think that is alot. It is a helmet people. Put one on, and go ride. What is the worst that could happen. It might or might not save your life. 50/50 chance. You'd buy a lottery ticket with those odds wouldn't you. As long as nobody mandates you to.....;) D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Sorry, definitely a VAIN idiot! "I'm an actor and I don't want to mess up my hair!. They make me look stupid. I don't need one, I won't be going that fast." Well, now see what you look like. She thought only of herself, and now a husband and 2 kids are trying to get on with their lives. So stupid and so preventable. And for all those that preach "I do what I want, and no one's gonna make me wear a helmet", good for you, more hill for me. That's called Darwinism at work. D. Eaglez...You don't know this woman and you certainly can't attest to her reasoning as to helmet use. I'm sure every one of us knows or is someone who has made what , in hindsight, turns out to be a poor decision... Are you saying that you've never made a poor choice that could have resulted in a catastrophic injury (ever drive tired, not wear a seat belt, drink too much and take a chance?). If you say you never have I'd have to question your veracity. So if you died as a result of a lapse of judgement should we all analyze your motives and your lack of consideration as relates to your friends/family? Should we pose on your self image? Give the woman a break...She made what turned out to be a poor decision but only because of a fluke event. I suggest we all get off of our high horse and have some reverence for someone who has tragically lost their life and left behind the grieving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I don't think we need a government mandate here... I think the insurance companies will take care of that one. "We will not write your policy unless you require helmet use by all instructors, patrollers, and require that all children and beginner-intermediate skiers wear helmets during lessons." If I were insuring a ski area, I'd damn sure add a clause like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglez Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Eaglez...You don't know this woman and you certainly can't attest to her reasoning as to helmet use. I'm sure every one of us knows or is someone who has made what , in hindsight, turns out to be a poor decision...Are you saying that you've never made a poor choice that could have resulted in a catastrophic injury (ever drive tired, not wear a seat belt, drink too much and take a chance?). If you say you never have I'd have to question your veracity. So if you died as a result of a lapse of judgement should we all analyze your motives and your lack of consideration as relates to your friends/family? Should we pose on your self image? Give the woman a break...She made what turned out to be a poor decision but only because of a fluke event. I suggest we all get off of our high horse and have some reverence for someone who has tragically lost their life and left behind the grieving... That's what is wrong with people these days. No one is required to take responsibility for their actions anymore. Oh, they must have had a problem in life that made them drink, drive and kill someone... it's not their fault. Oh, that kid came from a broken home and he shot up a school... it's not his fault. You make your choices. You live or die with the consequences. It is that simple. I don't know about you, but knowing I have a family at home that depends on me for a great many things, makes me think twice or more about everything I choose to do in life. And I don't live in a bubble. I think about more than just me when deciding to do or not do everything. That is called taking responsibility for ones self and thinking about others. More people should try that sometime. The world would be a better place. And the lawyers would be obsolete. It may not be the way you live your life. But I want to be around for my family for as long as possible. Go ahead now, find fault with that. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 I don't think we need a government mandate here...I think the insurance companies will take care of that one. "We will not write your policy unless you require helmet use by all instructors, patrollers, and require that all children and beginner-intermediate skiers wear helmets during lessons." If I were insuring a ski area, I'd damn sure add a clause like that. That's a good observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhaskins Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Eaglez: you make too much of what is going on. In a lot of endeavors, it is monkey see, monkey do. Just watch any young kid learning anything and it is pretty apparent. You come to a mountian, a cold bright/cloudy place to learn an arcane sport, and you can only take in so much in at one time. Most people are gliding around and looking cool with three-quarters wearing sunglasses as their only head protection, what are you to think? People learn things differently. There are a lot of people I have met that could be given a demo, and they can do it themselves. they are more "physical" in their learning. Other people (like maybe engineers?) study every facet of the new sport before they commit to actually trying it out. Others just put themselves in and go. Vastly different approaches to learning. Richardson may have turned into a skier or she may have decided that she would rather base jump, who knows? You cannot judge from your pile of experience if she even made a mistake as her level of exposure and experience was so minimal. The statement "You should wear a helmet" coming from an instructor not wearing a helmet and a holiday atmosphere at the resort where most people are not wearing helmets, is just not effective. Turn it around tho, and state "you must wear a helmet at all times at this resort unless you sign a complete liability waiver" coming from an instructor who is wearing a helmet WILL give a newby something to reflect on before they worry about getting helmet hair. That gives them a sense of perspective. Make it apparent that all people with purple ski passes have signed the waiver (and organ donor cards) and those with regular colored passes and helmets have not, and then all your arguments make sense. Put it this way: You go in and purchase a house and you have to sign a purchase agreement, and all those loan documents. Do you have any idea what all those documents, clauses and statements acually mean? Unless you are a lawyer and have a real estate practice, you do not. That's why you rely on the people in the process to help you, and that is why a lot of people get/got screwed on their mortgages. You would need a month of classes on mortgages, finance and real estate to understand the basics of the risks involved. And I stress just the basics. There is a difference in making an informed decision and just making a decision. Richardson probably had just minutes to make that decision on what equipment to use. Peace to her and her family. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 That's what is wrong with people these days. No one is required to take responsibility for their actions anymore. Oh, they must have had a problem in life that made them drink, drive and kill someone... it's not their fault. Oh, that kid came from a broken home and he shot up a school... it's not his fault. You make your choices. You live or die with the consequences. It is that simple. I don't know about you, but knowing I have a family at home that depends on me for a great many things, makes me think twice or more about everything I choose to do in life. And I don't live in a bubble. I think about more than just me when deciding to do or not do everything. That is called taking responsibility for ones self and thinking about others. More people should try that sometime. The world would be a better place. And the lawyers would be obsolete.It may not be the way you live your life. But I want to be around for my family for as long as possible. Go ahead now, find fault with that. D. Eaglez...You seem bound and determined to condemn this woman and I guess if that's how you feel, nothing I can say will make you view her death in a compassionate way. I didn't say it wasn't her fault...I didn't say she didn't have a responsibilty to her family...I didn't mention anything about lawyers...I didn't say that there were no consequences for ones actions...Nothing about school shootings. What I did say was have a little compassion and maybe avoid condemning someone who in this particular case made an error in judgement. As to how I live my life if you must know...I try to conduct myself in a way as to not endanger others but mindful that a full life entails certain risks which I'm willing to take...along with the consequences. So, as far as logic is concerned, I can't fault what you have said...But compassion? I find fault with lack of that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I agree - as snowboarders, we all know that it's pretty silly to ride without a helmet (I certainly ride with one every day), but1) As a beginner it may not be obvious that you need a helmet while going 3 mph on basically a flat trail, especially since the majority of people you would have seen on the beginner slopes around you have no helmet, either, and 2) the injury she got was just a terrible fluke from what seems like a pretty minor fall. It seems like she could have tripped and fallen in her living room and received the same impact: it's just bad luck, imo. FWIW, I ride with a helmet all the time, but I did not wear a helmet on my first day of lessons. I think it would be fair to call myself on day 1 ignorant, but not an idiot: I did not make a conscious choice not to wear a helmet - I didn't even know it was regular equipment. If you can put yourselves back in the mindset of your first day, I think you might find it more understandable that she did not wear a helmet - as a non-skier/non-snowboarder, you are not bombarded with "ALWAYS WEAR A HELMET" the way we are, you probably hadn't bought a helmet yet because you didn't know it was "required gear" or weren't sure you were going to get into the sport for sure and they didn't rent helmets at the ski school, snow (to a non skier) sounded like fluffy soft stuff, you didn't have a bunch of skier friends that had gotten concussions, etc., etc.. I mean, on my first day I think I showed up with wind pants on top of jeans, cotton socks, and like a windbreaker on top of a sweatshirt. I had no idea what I was doing; I was a beginner. How would a person like that own a ski helmet?! Have to say,Ken, I agree...Well put... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 That's what is wrong with people these days. No one is required to take responsibility for their actions anymore. Oh, they must have had a problem in life that made them drink, drive and kill someone... it's not their fault. Oh, that kid came from a broken home and he shot up a school... it's not his fault. You make your choices. You live or die with the consequences. It is that simple. I don't know about you, but knowing I have a family at home that depends on me for a great many things, makes me think twice or more about everything I choose to do in life. And I don't live in a bubble. I think about more than just me when deciding to do or not do everything. That is called taking responsibility for ones self and thinking about others. More people should try that sometime. The world would be a better place. And the lawyers would be obsolete.It may not be the way you live your life. But I want to be around for my family for as long as possible. Go ahead now, find fault with that. D. Honestly, I don't see what any of that has to do with anything. I think you're wrapping up a whole bunch of unrelated stuff with an accident (sounds like you have a problem with the nanny state, or people not taking responsibility for their actions, or you just don't like her because she's an actress and therefore her not wearing a helmet is due to her not wanting to mess up her hair?). Here's a hypothetical story: I don't know if you kitesurf or not, but just for the sake of argument, let's assume you don't. Say you want to learn, so you go to a school and take a lesson. The guy gives you a harness, a kite, a PDF, and a helmet, and shows you the quick release, the safety leash, and the secondary quick release on the safety leash in case things go really wrong. You're at South Padre Island where the water is only 3.5 feet deep so you can stand up anytime you want anyways. You accidentally fall, and the kite falls out of the sky and you get tangled in the lines. You pull your quick release, but it doesn't depower the kite, so you pull your secondary quick release, but one of the steering lines has wrapped around your legs and it takes off, and drags you and you drown to death in 3.5 feet of water. Now: Are you an idiot because you didn't sew your hook knife to your PDF? Obviously not; you didn't know what a hook knife was, and most people don't ride with them anyways, the instructor didn't tell you to bring one, and there wasn't already one on your vest. Is the instructor at fault? Possibly, but I don't really think so - how many people get tangled in their lines and drown in 3.5 feet of water on their first water lesson? 0? Should the government have made hook knives mandatory or banned kitesurfing? Of course not. Who's at fault? In my opinion: nobody - sometimes bad things happen to good people - it's called an accident. Is anybody an idiot? I don't think so either. The point (which may be totally lost on you if you already know how to kitesurf) is that I think you should try to put yourself in the shoes of the other person. As experienced snowboarders, what we consider to be obvious, basic knowledge is not obvious to beginners because they are, by definition, new to the sport. It doesn't mean we're smarter, it just means we did it before, or had related knowledge from similar activities or from knowing people who did it before. For all I know, this woman may in fact have been advised to wear a helmet and purposely declined because she didn't want to mess up her hair, but until you know so for a fact, it seems totally callous to direct the kind of distain you seem to have at her, just like it would be completely wrong to you and your family to call you a fricken moron for not bringing your hook knife to your first lesson and drowning because of it. Now, if you had purposely decided not to wear the hook knife given to you because you didn't want to look like a safety wuss, then you would be an idiot, but we don't know that that's why you didn't have one, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Honestly, I don't see what any of that has to do with anything. I think you're wrapping up a whole bunch of unrelated stuff with an accident (sounds like you have a problem with the nanny state, or people not taking responsibility for their actions, or you just don't like her because she's an actress and therefore her not wearing a helmet is due to her not wanting to mess up her hair?).Here's a hypothetical story: I don't know if you kitesurf or not, but just for the sake of argument, let's assume you don't. Say you want to learn, so you go to a school and take a lesson. The guy gives you a harness, a kite, a PDF, and a helmet, and shows you the quick release, the safety leash, and the secondary quick release on the safety leash in case things go really wrong. You're at South Padre Island where the water is only 3.5 feet deep so you can stand up anytime you want anyways. You accidentally fall, and the kite falls out of the sky and you get tangled in the lines. You pull your quick release, but it doesn't depower the kite, so you pull your secondary quick release, but one of the steering lines has wrapped around your legs and it takes off, and drags you and you drown to death in 3.5 feet of water. Now: Are you an idiot because you didn't sew your hook knife to your PDF? Obviously not; you didn't know what a hook knife was, and most people don't ride with them anyways, the instructor didn't tell you to bring one, and there wasn't already one on your vest. Is the instructor at fault? Possibly, but I don't really think so - how many people get tangled in their lines and drown in 3.5 feet of water on their first water lesson? 0? Should the government have made hook knives mandatory or banned kitesurfing? Of course not. Who's at fault? In my opinion: nobody - sometimes bad things happen to good people - it's called an accident. Is anybody an idiot? I don't think so either. The point (which may be totally lost on you if you already know how to kitesurf) is that I think you should try to put yourself in the shoes of the other person. As experienced snowboarders, what we consider to be obvious, basic knowledge is not obvious to beginners because they are, by definition, new to the sport. It doesn't mean we're smarter, it just means we did it before, or had related knowledge from similar activities or from knowing people who did it before. For all I know, this woman may in fact have been advised to wear a helmet and purposely declined because she didn't want to mess up her hair, but until you know so for a fact, it seems totally callous to direct the kind of distain you seem to have at her, just like it would be completely wrong to you and your family to call you a fricken moron for not bringing your hook knife to your first lesson and drowning because of it. Now, if you had purposely decided not to wear the hook knife given to you because you didn't want to look like a safety wuss, then you would be an idiot, but we don't know that that's why you didn't have one, right? Good analogy (sp?)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Im sure "Vanity" is what lead to it. Ive had my share of celebs on the hill, and they are often are more interested in "looking the part" than actualy being a "goober" and wearing a helmet. Im sure out west at upscale posh resorts it is even worse. Brain Injury, the Silent Epidemic by Nansie Chapman Each year in this country approximately 2 million Americans will experience a brain injury and 50,000 will die. And what happens to those who live? It is estimated that around 80,000 of those who survive will suffer from a long-term disability as a result of their head trauma, also known as Acquired Brain Injury (ABI) or Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). ABI is the leading cause of death and disability in children and young adults. It is not surprising to find the highest rate of injury from a head trauma occurring in young men between the ages of 15 and 24; young males participate in a higher level of competitive and extreme sports than other age groups, and there is a growing number of boys involved in violent crimes. The other age group affected is the over 75 years-of-age. This group, however, has a larger percentage of afflictions as a result from accidents, strokes and brain disease. What is interesting to note is, at any age, men are twice as likely to experience a traumatic brain injury as women. The top causes of ABI are motor vehicle accidents (where the person is either riding in the car or is struck as a pedestrian), falls, violent crimes (especially from firearms), or head injury as a result of shaking a child (often seen in cases of child abuse). So What Exactly is Acquired Brain Injury? ABI occurs when a sudden physical assault damages the brain. The damage can be focal (confined to one area of the brain as in a physical blow to the head) or diffuse (occurs in more than one area of the brain as in some forms of brain cancer). The severity of the injury can range from a mild concussion to a complex injury that results in a coma or even death. There are Two Ways in Which Acquired Brain Injury Occurs. (1) Closed Brain Injury When there is a sudden non-penetrating injury to the brain with no apparent breaks to the skull, it is known as a closed brain injury. This is usually caused from a rapid jerking or forward and backward movement to the head. It is often seen as a result of car accidents or falls where there is no physical impact from an object but the head is severely jerked, causing tearing of the brain tissue and blood vessels. In young infants, a closed brain injury can result from severe shaking of child that often results from the actions of a frustrated sibling, caretaker or parent. There have been too many incidents when a child dies or ends up with severe brain damage as a result of someone's frustration. Education and proper childcare techniques are important tools in making everyone aware of the dangers that can result from this type of inappropriate treatment of children. (2) Penetrating or Open Head Injury The second kind of trauma to the head occurs when there is a break in the skull, such as when a foreign object like a bullet pierces the brain. Primary and Secondary Brain Injury Primary brain injury occurs from the initial sudden impact. This occurs at the time of the car accident, fall, gunshot wound or other devastating blow. Secondary brain injury is what happens to the brain over a period of time after the initial blow. This includes a variety of symptoms resulting from cellular and chemical changes that occur after the initial blow that result in further damage to the brain (like severe swelling and internal bruising or bleeding). Imagine your head is a basketball. Inside the basketball is a volleyball, which is your brain and of course is smaller in size. If you had a video camera attached to the volleyball and dropped the basketball from about five feet above the ground, you would see what happens to your brain during an injury. The volleyball (your head) hits the ground. The initial impact is called the direct blow and is known in medical terms as what causes the coup lesion (pronounced COO) or a bruise directly related to trauma at the site of impact. After the initial impact the volleyball then hits the opposite side of the basketball causing a bruise called a countercoup lesion. This secondary reaction can often cause more damage than the initial impact. Tearing of internal tissues and blood vessels leads to further bruising, bleeding, swelling and additional trauma to the brain. Brain tumors and strokes can have the same devastating effects as a severe blow to the head. Like in all head trauma, symptoms can be mild, and with proper care, disappearing over time. Or, the results can be more severe with permanent disability or even death resulting. Long-term care for ABI usually lasts over a lifetime. Most studies suggest that once the brain cells are destroyed or damaged, for the most part, they do not regenerate. However, the latest research now shows that the brain can compensate for the injury by learning to reroute information to other parts of the brain. New pathways form and the brain finds ways to adopt to old and new stimulation creating what seems at times as miraculous recoveries. However, in most cases the recovery is long, painful and physically and emotionally debilitating not only for the patient but also for family members. Permanent disabilities often follow the ABI patient from the time of the initial impact until the end of his/her life. In Santa Barbara we are extremely fortunate to have two outstanding facilities* that are available to assist brain injury patients with short and long-term recovery. The Rehabilitation Center of Santa Barbara is equipped to handle immediate and short-term traumatic head injuries with a full staff of doctors, therapists, nurses and staff. Jodi House is a day facility that is available to assist in the long-term concerns of head injury patients and their families. Here you will find support groups, classes, independent living skills, recreation, etc. For further information call 563-2882. The above information was extracted from material provided by the National Association of Head Injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 guys, all this vanity talk and so on is kinda rugged. I'm the first one to say someone is stupid for not wearing a helmet but I think this is mostly due the average beginer being naive as opposed to vain. most ski instructors don't wear helmets, why would a beginner even think about it? They usually think "I'm not gonna go that fast." dumb yes but vain is pushing it. at least when you're talking about beginners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak_rider Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Im sure "Vanity" is what lead to it. Ive had my share of celebs on the hill, and they are often are more interested in "looking the part" than actualy being a "goober" and wearing a helmet. Im sure out west at upscale posh resorts it is even worse. QUOTE] no offense to you or your hill, but i can't see big time celebs, such as natasha richardson, going there. I had a little bit of experience with celebs while i was in CO. The most recent that I taught was Jessica Alba, probably slightly more famous than richardson was. She was not concerned in the least about "looking the part". She was also not concerned with people knowing she was there and vanity seemed to be the last thing on her mind. so for you to make a statement about vanity as you did and assuming all celebs are concerend with is looking good is complete BS. i'd be willing to bet richardson's hair style had nothing to do with her decision to not wear a helmet. it was probably the same reason the majority of beginners don't wear one-they are uninformed. for all we know she could have planned to go out and buy a helmet after the lesson and just never got a chance to. if you look at the facts it just comes down to her being an uninformed beginner who didn't realize skiing can be deadly and unfortunately that opinion cost her her life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhaskins Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 So Dave: are you going to make your students wear a helmet? Are you going to work to change the policies of your hill to require helmets for students of all ages and all instructors? Or are you going to just go with the flow? Change has to begin somewhere. And I am just curious, not trying to start anything. BTW, congrats. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Im sure "Vanity" is what lead to it. Ive had my share of celebs on the hill, and they are often are more interested in "looking the part" than actualy being a "goober" and wearing a helmet. Im sure out west at upscale posh resorts it is even worse. I am actually flabbergasted that you have passed judgment on a (now dead) woman's state of mind, her decision making process, and even her character based on... her occupation. Seriously? You really think all "celebs" are the same? I think you need to generalize less, and empathize more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Globe and Mail article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090327.wrichardson0327/BNStory/National/home/?pageRequested=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 The most recent that I taught was Jessica Alba, probably slightly more famous than richardson was. She was not concerned in the least about "looking the part". She was also not concerned with people knowing she was there and vanity seemed to be the last thing on her mind.That jibes with the impression I've had of her from interviews. Good to know the public image matches the private to a certain extent.Plus, I hate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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