Colorado thoughts...

[SWriverstone]

Holly and I are back at work, bumming out at the crush of reality after a week in paradise!

Our first week carving out west was fantastic. We've never been to *any* big western resort before, so it had to be an amazing experience no matter what...and it was!

In retrospect, SES was almost irrelevant for us—and that's not meant in a negative or critical way...just that we were so utterly happy and blown away to be carving Buttermilk and Snowmass that we were on Cloud 9 just doing our own thing. Of course it was fun to occasionally see better carvers than us doing their thing...but we spent most of the week on our own, just carving away in a deliriously happy zone!

The length of the runs was mind-blowing for us. After being used to only 900 feet of vertical at our local resort, the runs in Aspen were almost incomprehensible. :) We'll never forget the first ride up the Summit Express chair at Buttermilk—we approached the halfway point (where you crest the first hill) and started lifting the bar, thinking that was it! LOL Then we saw the lift just kept going up the mountain, stared at each other and laughed.

We never made it to Highlands nor Ajax...and that didn't bother us a bit because (again) Buttermilk and Snowmass kept us totally busy and content. Snowmass in particular was our favorite, and we never got tired of it for a second. In particular, we couldn't get enough runs from Elk Camp (Bull Run and Gunner's View)...and Big Burn (Sneaky's and Dallas). Carving around trees was just an amazing blast (I definitely spent more time riding across the slopes than down them.)

We thought about checking out some of the clinics, but really felt they were too advanced for us. Our perception was that SES is an event for advanced-to-expert carvers...not beginners and low-level intermediates. (Again, that's not intended as criticism, just an observation.) We didn't feel comfortable hanging with the group, as most of what we saw consisted of high-speed trains of super-experienced carvers laying down big EC turns...and that just wasn't our thing.

But we definitely rode our legs off...3 straight days...a day off...then 4 straight days. Unreal! We're hooked on Snowmass and definitely plan to return.

I did take advantage of a board demo and tried out a Prior WCRM 173. Wow! What an eye-opener! I've carved for 4 seasons on the board I learned on—a Nidecker GS Extreme 164. I knew that board was too small for me, but had no idea how small until I rode the Prior—it was like night and day! I hate to say it, but no frickin' wonder everybody there is laying down EC turns right and left on those boards! LOL It was SO much easier to hold an edge and get low on that big board—not to mention a LOT faster down the slopes and a LOT more stable riding through chop and powder piles. (BTW, I'm 6'0" and 220lbs...on a 164!)

It was an amazing week, and MORE than worth the expense of going. We're already booking our trip for next year.

Perhaps it's not really the point of SES...but we both felt (and talked with a few other carvers who agreed) that the event could be made even better by adding more instructional opportunities for beginners and low-level intermediates. I think because carving is such a small sport and so many people are self-taught that there is an assumption the best way to learn is just to "hang on" with the big boys and get tips when you can. This might work for some, but we didn't want to do that.

As an example, it would be great if there could be a half-day clinic offered specifically for beginners/intermediates (and if you can EC you're *not* an intermediate!) that focuses on basic technique, perhaps with the use of FRS radios so the instructor could station midway down the slope and offer comments to each person when they arrive at the bottom.

But again, I might be pushing the boundaries of SES beyond what the experts want? If so, that's fine—I know for many people it's just a chance for experts to let it all hang out with each other and party! :)

In any case, we are seriously glad we went. Carving out there for 7 days pushed our abilities to a new level, and our local hill will NEVER look the same again!

Scott

[Allee]

Glad you had a good time Scott. I ran across you and Holly a couple of times, you looked like you were doing pretty well from what I saw!

It's a shame that Sean Cassidy from Snowperformance wasn't there this year, as the clinic he runs is just what you were looking for. Maybe next year.

I found last year that it pays to circulate and eventually you'll end up in a group that's pretty similar to you, and that's where the learning starts. I watched a lot of people do the same thing this year. Don't be afraid to jump into the clinics next time round ... even if they're not your style of riding, it's an easy way to meet people and find some riding buddies. Nobody is going to give you a hard time about how well you ride. Yes, there are a lot of very, very good riders screaming around the hill, but if you look hard, there's a lot of intermediates learning the ropes as well. Surprisingly enough, most of the good guys don't bite, go and say hi.

I'm with you on Snowmass. Gunner's View was my fave run of the entire session, Felicia and I played boardercross on that until our legs fell off...

[carverchick]

OMG Gunner's View was off the hook. Al, I loved playing boardercross with you. It was such a hoot. Damnit I'm poopy again, I miss Aspen and my friends :( I see you baby!!! Shakin that ass :P

Glad you had a good time Scott. I ran across you and Holly a couple of times, you looked like you were doing pretty well from what I saw!

It's a shame that Sean Cassidy from Snowperformance wasn't there this year, as the clinic he runs is just what you were looking for. Maybe next year.

I found last year that it pays to circulate and eventually you'll end up in a group that's pretty similar to you, and that's where the learning starts. I watched a lot of people do the same thing this year. Don't be afraid to jump into the clinics next time round ... even if they're not your style of riding, it's an easy way to meet people and find some riding buddies. Nobody is going to give you a hard time about how well you ride. Yes, there are a lot of very, very good riders screaming around the hill, but if you look hard, there's a lot of intermediates learning the ropes as well. Surprisingly enough, most of the good guys don't bite, go and say hi.

I'm with you on Snowmass. Gunner's View was my fave run of the entire session, Felicia and I played boardercross on that until our legs fell off...

[SWriverstone]

Glad you had a good time Scott. I ran across you and Holly a couple of times, you looked like you were doing pretty well from what I saw!

Yes! Glad we got to meet for a few seconds, LOL. (You found us during one of our many breaks on our way down the slope...)

It's a shame that Sean Cassidy from Snowperformance wasn't there this year, as the clinic he runs is just what you were looking for. Maybe next year.

Yeah, I heard good things about that clinic!

I found last year that it pays to circulate and eventually you'll end up in a group that's pretty similar to you, and that's where the learning starts. I watched a lot of people do the same thing this year. Don't be afraid to jump into the clinics next time round ... even if they're not your style of riding, it's an easy way to meet people and find some riding buddies. Nobody is going to give you a hard time about how well you ride. Yes, there are a lot of very, very good riders screaming around the hill, but if you look hard, there's a lot of intermediates learning the ropes as well. Surprisingly enough, most of the good guys don't bite, go and say hi.

That's good advice, and if I were there alone I might have done that. But I think the wailin' gangs of testosterone-laden EC-carving guys (that's said tongue-in-cheek) were too much for Holly—she's much happier in dedicated instructional situations. We met another couple who felt the same way.

I'm with you on Snowmass. Gunner's View was my fave run of the entire session, Felicia and I played boardercross on that until our legs fell off...

Yes! Gunner's View was TOTALLY a boardercross course! That gully shape with rollers and tree islands was killer...insane fun!

Scott

[RDY_2_Carve]

Well I don't think you have to be expert to EC. I don't even think I've broken through the intermediate barrier yet and I can borderline EC.

As far as clinics go I thought the Wed EC clinic by Alexis (G-Force) was pretty good. Even if I only got 2-3 pointers out of it I thought I benefited from it as it gets you thinking about proper technique and you get to see it being done by expert level riders. I thought that particular clinic had novice-intermidiate riders. The only expert riders in that clinic were the instructors IMHO.

Scott I think you did yourself an injustice by not carving Highlands. It's probably the most carver friendly place in Aspen! With carving it's all about pitch and Highlands has the perfect pitch for laying down some serious carves. Snowmass does seem to have the most variety but it also was the most crowded-especially near the demo tent area. Granted my idea of crowded is a bit jaded with our empty New Mexico ski resorts!

My new nickname for Buttermilk is "ButterBomb".

Oh yeah I got the most "natural" air ever for me on Adams Avenue traversing from Elk Camp to the Bomber Tent on Thursday. I guess that comes with not really knowing the run and going too fast? I stuck the landing though but my heart sunk a bit. Luckily there was no major wipe out...I'd say it was about 20 feet in length or so. I'm sure I'm exaggerating a little but I didn't land on any downslope...I flew over the rest of the hill! Scared the crap outta me! I normally don't do "jumps" on plates...at least not real jumps. I've done the little jibber park jumps on plates where you get a few feet length and maybe 12 inches off the ground...

Good times! :)

[SWriverstone]

I'm sure the clinics were great! (And certainly never intended to suggest they weren't.)

I think we're at a point in our carving where (being victims of Mid-Atlantic slush or ice 95% of the time) we did the best thing for us: just carved, carved, carved and carved some more in fantastic conditions! It was a revelation to be able to trust my edges 100% in every turn—I don't think an edge ever blew out on me once (which is a regular occurrence back east).

I'll definitely check out Highlands next year. If we'd gone this year, it would have been like someone giving us a trillion dollars...then saying "Hey, you want a trillion more?" :)

Scott

PS - Everything is definitely relative—we saw some folks over at Buttermilk at the blue pitch on Westward Ho. Later they said the conditions there were lousy (crunchy, frozen, etc)...we thought the conditions ROCKED and happily rode our faces off! LOL (But remember, we're from the titanium-surfaced east...)

[Daneille]

I'll definitely check out Highlands next year. If we'd gone this year, it would have been like someone giving us a trillion dollars...then saying "Hey, you want a trillion more?"

The correct answer of coarse would be "yes, thank you".

Daneille

[Mellow Yellow]

Next time don't be put off by the more experienced riders... you should approach them, trust me when I say they will be more than willing to take a few "instructional" runs with you.

Also, let me know if you plan to ride winterplace or the shoe, I am going a few more times this year, I would be happy to ride with you.*

*take my advice at your own risk!

[Steve Prokopiw]

Put on an entry level carving clinic.As it was I did get sent out a couple of times to help new riders who were demoing their first real carving setups.I would love to give a couple of entry to mid level clinics next year if Fin and co are cool with it.Here at home that's what I do;spread the gospel of hardbooting.

Like many of the bomber faithful,I am always happy to provide advice.On the other hand,if it means blocking out a half or whole day,well then you gotta pay:)

[SWriverstone]

With respect and genuine appreciation to anyone who would offer to help to lower-level carvers, I suspect there is a subtle, yet deeply instilled value in the carving community for its "unique" status...which leads to a kind of self-selection process: if you're aggressive, and want to learn, and press more experienced carvers for information, you'll get it. But if you don't, well...

My point being that there doesn't seem to be much of a desire within the community to really expand the participant base for carving. Why else—after decades of people doing this sport—is there not a single book on carving technique? Or a single DVD on learning to carve? (If I'm wrong, please correct me!) BTW, I say this with great appreciation for the efforts of Jack Michaud and others who have contributed to the educational articles on BOL.

I came from another fringe sport—whitewater slalom racing, where I competed at the national level for a few years back in the late 80s. I'm pretty sure there are actually fewer people in the US who are whitewater slalom racers than there are snowboard racers...yet there are several excellent books on whitewater slalom technique.

Please don't read any sour grapes into anything I'm saying—I love carving as it is! I'm just observing that it sometimes appears to be a bit of a club with entry gained the hard way—watching, asking, and/or moving someplace where you can take regular lessons from the few instructors who ride and teach plates.

Scott

[Corey]

Someone on here self-published a short book about high-level carving, can't recall who it was now though.

Sean's clinic at last year's SES was targeted directly at the beginning carver, though a bunch of intermediates showed up with one beginner. Sean ran an intermediate clinic for the group and then a long lesson for the single beginner.

There are more examples but my point is that it isn't some secret sanctum that's hard to break into. Carving is just so small that no one is willing to risk footing the publishing costs for something that may only sell 20 copies. Heck, Donek's calendar isn't moving as well as expected and it's freaking awesome. A book would have an even harder time making a profit or breaking even.

[Allee]

Scott, you're making a good point. I had a long conversation with Chris Prior about it, and the attitudes that we sometimes put up to outsiders, and it's a very valid view. How do we deal with it? I have no idea, apart from my being polite, friendly and helpful to anyone that approaches me about my riding or my gear.

For Holly, it's tough being a girl in this sport, because there aren't a lot of other females around -so you just end up having to toss your cookies in with the boys and tough it out until you learn the ropes. Not that this has ever bothered me, but then I'm a little more athletic and aggressive than your average girl. Myself and Wonser have also been lucky enough to have a talented and incredibly patient coach in Darcy, as Felicia has with Al ... but we had to be willing to ask for help, and take the occasional pasting when we're riding like wimps. The girls clinic at SES would have been good for Holly, I'm really surprised that she didn't make it.

There were plenty of opportunities for people to get together with others over the week. I watched Ann from our Calgary crew, on her first week ever in hardboots, riding around the hill with Gretchen and Vanessa with Beth coaching. They recognised kindred spirits, worked it out, rode together and had a great time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're not going to get anywhere expecting it to fall in your lap ... you need to get after it. Talk, ride, schmooze, ask. It's a pretty good club, once you get in the door. Don't be standing round outside the door if you're serious about joining the party...

[Steve Prokopiw]

On the subject of expanding the carver base;there are some here that are always doing something geared toward getting others into this awesome sport,myself included.

At SES there was plenty of evidence of this,but I do understand that the event did have an elite air about it since there were so many good and knowledgable riders and a bunch of cutting edge gear.

At my home mountain I have helped at least a dozen other people buy and learn to ride alpine equipment last season and this season and I still have a few people to go this season.The packages for mostly new old stock and good used gear have been as low as 275.00 for board, boots and bindings.

I think it is important for those of us who would like to see the sport grow to be easily approachable.That's how I make the initial contact with any new prospect;by answering any and all questions they may have and offering the most useful information I can give.

[Snowman]

I would be more the happy to offer any kind of help. All you gotta do is ask. This year was a big reunion year for me and a bunch of the fellas and we definately didn't stop very often. But mabey next SES we can do something more organized. I hope you all still had the time of your lives, it was a very good year for the SES. Keep in mind that for many of the guys its the absolute biggest vacation of their year, the spend all year thinking and dreaming about riding at the best carving resort in the world. They wake up a 5am every morning for seven days straight to drink half a pot of coffee and them go charge hard all day. Yea it definately is a little to testosterone driven but its the big one. I noticed a bit of it also don't take it personally, blame it on the coffee. Everyone there is approachable and more than willing to help whom ever with what ever. Does any body wanna do a long board clinic next year?

[Steve Prokopiw]

would be great, but everyone has to wear neon and lots of padding:)

[BlueB]

I don't quite understand what attitudes are we talking about... On our hill, we are all more then willing to share the information with outsiders and newcomers. To the point where we almost pest people to try and learn.

I keep couple of setups at the hill and everyone is welcome to try. Over the years I gave away numerous boards and few bindings (they are harder to find).

Year after year I put up with the attiude of my snow school TOWARDS the alpine riding, just to have a chance to maybe, sometimes, teach few people h/booting in formal manner.

Don't quite know what more to do, short of starting full-blown independant alpine school, for which I nither have time, money, nor nervs...

So, ask and it will be given...

As for the books, the days of paper book necessity are gone. PDF is the answer. Yet, why? You can find all that's needed on our few favorite web sites.

[SWriverstone]

Sorry BlueB if I sounded like I was suggesting that carvers--generally--are a "closed" community. I know there are many people across the country who regularly support the sport by helping new people get into it.

I was mainly talking about SES, and as I said earlier, I understand that the intention for SES was probably never to make it an educational/instructional event...but rather a fun gathering of peers---which is totally cool!

Perhaps it would be a good thing if a different event was organized next year--an event dedicated to organized instruction (as opposed to freecarving)...where the focus is on teaching technique, providing realtime feedback via radio and video, etc. It could have an appropriate name like "The Carving Concordia" or something like that. Heck, I'd be glad to help organize something like that!

Scott

[BlueB]

at Sun Peaks, BC, is your answer.

It happens every year in late December, I think...

[SWriverstone]

I was told by Cliff a bunch of people are coming together to Express themselves

LOL—true! And I realize now that's exactly what SES is! (Though it might better be called the "SSS" or "Summit Showoff Session." :D)

Scott

[Corey]

LOL! It's certainly not the SWS (Summit Wallflower Session)!

Seriously though: if you would like some awesome instruction, any of the instructors listed in the local ride boards or Sean at Snowperformance would be exactly the ticket. I took 2 or 3 runs with Sean last year during his clininc and it changed my whole approach to the sport.

Get out there, ask for help. You'll likely be pleasantly overwhelmed with the response.

[John E]

Lots of great folks and help all around. I'm a wanna-be carver and I had several folks give me some helpful tips on the runs & on the lifts. I learn best with a few short tips (work on this or try this) instead of a long description of technique. Thanks to Al from Wisconsin ("get lower").

I also had the pleasure of doing several runs with Bruce from Coiler. We talked board construction and technique on the lifts and he gave me some brief tips on each run. Very helpful. Now I just need to spend more time listening to these voices in my ear and practicing on my own.

I think Chris Prior said it best at the banquet that we need to get more young people into the sport for the manufacturers to survive. Compared to soft booting, carving is more "work", you have to think about what you are doing and practice the techniques. Compared to softbooting, there is a relatively narrow range of the "right" way to carve. Also, it is not perceived as "cool" and there is a lack of "bad boy" attitude.

Maybe in order to appeal to large numbers of teens, we'll have to tap into our inner gangsta.

[Steve Prokopiw]

I'm out.I agree that young people would be good for the sport;I've helped a couple of teens get into it this year.But it's not as if adults are all dying and there aren't any left to populate the sport.AASI went totally to the freestyle squatty stance image and left most adults out in the cold.Pandering to the ageism that dominates our society just to try and make a sport legit will kill it for most grownups I know who got into this precisely because it looks and feels like a sport for grownups.We are the largest sector of the population,how can there be a shortage of people to get into it?

In fact,as soon as you make it obvious that you are pandering to teens you will turn them off.They know when they're being patronized.When a teen comes up to me to tell me how rad carving looks it has nothing whatsoever to do with me caring if they think it's cool;that's what makes it cool.

[CarveItUp]

Derek and I ran into Holly and Scott on Saturday and got to chatting about the session. We had a good hash out about what both couples experienced as we hadn’t ran into each other before then. I’ve been trying to figure out how to put what I felt about this year’s session in words, here’s my best shot.

Corey has it right when he says it’s not the Summit Wallflower Session, but I think Scott has raised some very good points about the event.

Allee mentions the attitude we put on to outsiders – It’s also intimidating if you are a carver and not on the inside. I agree with her comment that if we want to grow the sport we should be more inclusive and encouraging.

I was at last year’s SES as well as this year’s and the vibe was very different this year. Last year I left feeling confident in my abilities and like I’d made some new friends. This year I felt put down constantly. It’s a good thing the snow was good.

Yes. I ride a Burton board. Yes, it’s a few years old. To have over 90% of people criticize my board or other equipment on seeing it without seeing me ride? To have people start a conversation on the bus but then stop talking to us once they find out what we ride? For people who have been riding for less than a year to tell me my equipment is unsafe? What about the “Oh, you should be on a 157 not a 168” comments from people who haven’t seen me ride? That’s really hard to take for 3 days straight. Sure, make a suggestion on how to improve my skills once you’ve seen something I can improve, don’t diss what I have to my face without seeing me use what I have. A conversation on the lift can be about something other than boards and equipment.

I wanted to demo a new board. I asked what I should ride. The person in the tent (who was not Fin or Michelle or any of the board builders I know so I’m not taking it to heart) said I should be on board X without asking anything else. Then Derek asked the same person what he should ride and was told that the person had to see Derek ride before making a suggestion. Hmmm. What was the suggestion to me made on then? My XX chromosomes? It sure came across that way. I tried a few more times, never getting anywhere because of my weight and height. I finally rode down to where Sean from Donek was taking pictures and said to him “you just saw me ride down here, what Donek should I be riding?” He told me what he suggested. Unfortunately it was too late to demo at that point. Next year.

I know I can ride my board my way. I’m not doing EC carves, but I’m having fun using the hill to get some exhilaration. Last year my style was described as “smooth as butter”. I also know that I was one of the younger participants, I look young and I sound young, so I’m choosing to take the constant comments as people trying to help out a younger person.

If you didn’t come to the SES, don’t let this convince you not to come. Start saving your pennies now. Aspen is an amazing hill, watching people carve is astounding and you’ll never regret seeing so many carvers in one place.

Beth

Orange coat, White Helmet, Yellow Burton Ultraprime 168

[Steve Prokopiw]

All good and valid points.I think that we hardbooters can be quite cliquish but I also think they majority of us are stoked any time we can help someone get into it and feel what we feel.

If you look at society as a whole I would go so far as to say we are much more inclusive and community oriented than many other groups.Many niche sports tend to look cloistered to the unitiated and are then written off as being elitist or too expensive.

I don't care that you ride a burton;I'm just glad you carve.Besides,you'll get hooked and the manufacturers who want your business and appeal to you will get it in the future.But maybe it will be that Ultra Prime that brings back the best memories.It's all good.

[SWriverstone]

Throughout the season, I've had many adults at our local resort ask me about my carving gear. I tell them all the same thing: "If you want to snowboard, and you don't want to do tricks, then this is the way to go." Unfortunately, other than saying "Check out BomberOnline.com and AlpineCarving.com," there's nothing more I can offer them about how to get into the sport. People ask "Where can I buy that gear?" and I'm always a little disappointed to say "Only online."

I realize that every niche/fringe/oddball sport struggles with the same issues. In whitewater it's exactly the same: slalom racers (the "carvers" of whitewater) versus playboaters (the "jibbers" of whitewater). The numbers of each are damn near identical to carving and freeriding. (Few slalom paddlers, a zillion playboaters.)

What I've seen over the past decade is that playboaters (jibbers) have gone WAY out of their way to introduce more people to the sport. They've positioned it as something completely approachable, friendly, fun, easy to get gear for, etc...and every time I turn around there are playboat clinics, playboat rodeos, playboat clubs forming, etc...but meanwhile, slalom continues to languish on the fringe even though it's a spectacularly beautiful and challenging and rewarding form of paddling. Many slalom paddlers pay lip service to the notion of getting more people involved...but ultimately they all just go off and do their own thing.

IMO, there is absolutely nothing in the way of getting thousands of adults into carving. Sure it's a bit of a challenge to learn, but so is skiing and freeriding...and if we don't expect everyone to be able to do EC turns, it suddenly gets a lot easier for adults (and younger people) to enjoy.

I think a lot of it is about lowering the bar—openly communicating that it's perfectly okay for people to carve without racing or Eurocarving or Pureboarding or any of the other high-end stuff. It's perfectly okay for people to "toodle" their way down a slope on plates without reaching extreme lean angles...and (yes) perfectly okay for people to skid sideways on a carving board if they feel the need to (but of course we should always point out that's not the right technique! :))

My belief is that much of the sport's perceived exclusiveness comes from the hero-worship of the top carvers and the general scramble within the ranks to emulate the heroes.

With no disrespect, I say "Screw the heroes, let's hear it for the little guys!" :)

Scott