Tinkler Rocketman

[Bruce Varsava]

Tinklers are hands down THE most super exotic techie boards ever produced. Split tails/noses, adjustable dampening rods, surfboard rocker.... YOWZA! If one can't wrap their head around the concept or try one out...maybe a little ( or a LOT more) ego gagging is in order?

BEST THREAD IN YEARS!

Heres my take and no disrespect to anyone

Lots of things are super exotic and techie but all that stuff really does for me is adds way more variables to getting a design sorted out. Split nose and tail with adjustable aluminum connection rods, built and raced them in 98 and still have a 196 if someone wants to send me a wad of cash for it:)

When adjusting stiffness I will change core thicknesses by a few thousandths of an inch or a few strands of carbon so the less stuff going on the better. I have had good race success on split tail adjustable boards but found it was too much of a pain to adjust and since you are not riding the same hill with the same conditions run after run, the last thing I want to do is to be standing at the top with a chart in hand trying to sort out which screws to turn. I did find that at the end of the day you could soften the board for easier riding but only did it once as again, too much hassle. All that hardware adds weight too as is I like my boards to come in between 7 to 9 lbs. Not sure what all that hardware weighs? Even if weight helps stability a bit its still not a good thing for a long day on snow.

Dampening rods, I guess they do something but for all around performance lots of dampening and stiffness can be designed right into the board if done carefully, though not adjustable of course. Never did like the way all the energy ended up at that one screw area though.

As for camber and rocker, if you move either way from what I and many others find a good all around amount, the boards start to do one thing better and other things worse. I tested 2 exactly identical boards and one had 6mm more camber, didn't like it as much as it was definitely a more demanding ride. Some would love it but not me and of course what a builder likes usually is where their designs head. Also recently tested 2 similar boards with varied amounts of tail decamber, we are talking a few mm difference here and the difference was noticeable in tail stability. This would lead me to believe that if these designs are taken to the max, it would really get funky.

With the reverse camber business, I would think ( notice I said think) that it would be pretty unstable on hard snow just due to my testing with the smaller varied amounts of camber. Sounds like a decent idea for soft snow though. As for racing them on steep icy stuff, well most courses are not steep all the way so the use, if it worked, would certainly be limited IMO.

Lots of sporting goods I have tested and dealt with that have adjustable parts are often compromises but do of course increase range of use a bit. Back in the day we had adjustable rocker sailboards (Mr Tinkler may have been involved in that?) , sails that you could zip parts on and off of but mostly things end up being heavier, more complicated and prone to breakage or having parts falling off and spoiling your day. Recently saw on TV recently a 2 piece surfboard! Certainly has merits but probably some pitfalls too. Even on my adjustable splits, I was always checking screw tightness!

I do have to applaud the inventiveness of the builders and also the customers who step up to help us out financially to do new stuff that otherwise would only be left in thoughts.

So having tried a bit of it, I do not think all the tech stuff is the direction I want to go as I do not feel it makes a good all around board( easy to build, cost effective, reasonably light and fun with good performance in the widest range of conditions) which is the direction I have been heading in for years. Thats my direction and my opinion so more power to y'all who have different thoughts as that where progress really comes from.

BV

Let the slamming begin:boxing_sm

[KingCrimson]

I would like to know how those ride. Phil did you like the skate banana? Did it have better edgehold on harder snow conditions with the rocker and the magna traction?

I'm waiting for the Lib-Tech van to come to Mt. High (it does..world class jib mountain) so I can try one. I have seen several Skate Bananas with Magnetraction in fairly shoddy conditions, definitely looked like they had something going right. Talked with a guy on the lift up, he said he loved the rocker in the deep soft snow that day. Made me really want to try one, because every time I ran out of speed, I was up to my ankles and unable to pull the board out of the snow.

[trailertrash]

Heres my take and no disrespect to anyone

Lots of things are super exotic and techie but all that stuff really does for me is adds way more variables to getting a design sorted out. Split nose and tail with adjustable aluminum connection rods, built and raced them in 98 and still have a 196 if someone wants to send me a wad of cash for it:)

When adjusting stiffness I will change core thicknesses by a few thousandths of an inch or a few strands of carbon so the less stuff going on the better. I have had good race success on split tail adjustable boards but found it was too much of a pain to adjust and since you are not riding the same hill with the same conditions run after run, the last thing I want to do is to be standing at the top with a chart in hand trying to sort out which screws to turn. I did find that at the end of the day you could soften the board for easier riding but only did it once as again, too much hassle. All that hardware adds weight too as is I like my boards to come in between 7 to 9 lbs. Not sure what all that hardware weighs? Even if weight helps stability a bit its still not a good thing for a long day on snow.

Dampening rods, I guess they do something but for all around performance lots of dampening and stiffness can be designed right into the board if done carefully, though not adjustable of course. Never did like the way all the energy ended up at that one screw area though.

As for camber and rocker, if you move either way from what I and many others find a good all around amount, the boards start to do one thing better and other things worse. I tested 2 exactly identical boards and one had 6mm more camber, didn't like it as much as it was definitely a more demanding ride. Some would love it but not me and of course what a builder likes usually is where their designs head. Also recently tested 2 similar boards with varied amounts of tail decamber, we are talking a few mm difference here and the difference was noticeable in tail stability. This would lead me to believe that if these designs are taken to the max, it would really get funky.

With the reverse camber business, I would think ( notice I said think) that it would be pretty unstable on hard snow just due to my testing with the smaller varied amounts of camber. Sounds like a decent idea for soft snow though. As for racing them on steep icy stuff, well most courses are not steep all the way so the use, if it worked, would certainly be limited IMO.

Lots of sporting goods I have tested and dealt with that have adjustable parts are often compromises but do of course increase range of use a bit. Back in the day we had adjustable rocker sailboards (Mr Tinkler may have been involved in that?) , sails that you could zip parts on and off of but mostly things end up being heavier, more complicated and prone to breakage or having parts falling off and spoiling your day. Recently saw on TV recently a 2 piece surfboard! Certainly has merits but probably some pitfalls too. Even on my adjustable splits, I was always checking screw tightness!

I do have to applaud the inventiveness of the builders and also the customers who step up to help us out financially to do new stuff that otherwise would only be left in thoughts.

So having tried a bit of it, I do not think all the tech stuff is the direction I want to go as I do not feel it makes a good all around board( easy to build, cost effective, reasonably light and fun with good performance in the widest range of conditions) which is the direction I have been heading in for years. Thats my direction and my opinion so more power to y'all who have different thoughts as that where progress really comes from.

BV

Let the slamming begin:boxing_sm

Well said, I think your point about adjustability is right on.

[Hans]

Interesting Bruce has to put here. Bruce has a point here and no point at all.

If you are seeking for an uncompromised board with more 'goals', you even have to buy more different boards from Bruce or any other boardbuilder. The boards can't do everything as good as you are looking for in one board.

I have been sailing competitionsailingboats for years. And I was glad that I could trim my sails and boats how I want them to be in different water and windconditions. Yes it will cost you a lot of time trimming sails and your boat. But you had the possibility to adjust and be faster then your competitor. In freecarving this is less important. But some adjustments on a snowboard can't do harm, as a matter of dealing with it, it are just the sticks you can fiddle with by a Tinkie, by no means does it come in the neighbourhood of the adjustibility of a (race) sailingboat. Just four sticks to fiddle with doesn't cost me time, I adjust them about twice a day when I am sitting in the lift or after having my lunch or beers and it cost me about 1 minute to adjust the sticks.

I just give it a few rounds or less and off I am. I like the adjustability of the sticks and Tinkies are super stable damp boards but lively though. At least my Tinkie 202 is no board for steep narrow pists though, there I use my Coiler X2 and Virus Cyborg for.

@ Bryan (Oldsnowboards): my board comes first, you have to wait......

[Bruce Varsava]

Interesting Bruce has to put here. Bruce has a point here and no point at all.

If you are seeking for an uncompromised board with more 'goals', you even have to buy more different boards from Bruce or any other boardbuilder. The boards can't do everything as good as you are looking for in one board.

I have been sailing competitionsailingboats for years. And I was glad that I could trim my sails and boats how I want them to be in different water and windconditions. Yes it will cost you a lot of time trimming sails and your boat. But you had the possibility to adjust and be faster then your competitor. In freecarving this is less important. But some adjustments on a snowboard can't do harm, as a matter of dealing with it, it are just the sticks you can fiddle with by a Tinkie, by no means does it come in the neighbourhood of the adjustibility of a (race) sailingboat. Just four sticks to fiddle with doesn't cost me time, I adjust them about twice a day when I am sitting in the lift or after having my lunch or beers and it cost me about 1 minute to adjust the sticks.

I just give it a few rounds or less and off I am. I like the adjustability of the sticks and Tinkies are super stable damp boards but lively though. At least my Tinkie 202 is no board for steep narrow pists though, there I use my Coiler X2 and Virus Cyborg for.

@ Bryan (Oldsnowboards): my board comes first, you have to wait......

Of course no one board will do it all but nowadays it is possible to get a lot more out of a single board through good design and materials. Before Titanal there was no way I could ride an All Mountain board easily on steep icy hills, then go off to the side and blast in the wind blown in powder, then go on a blue run and have some nice peaceful carves.Just did this a few days ago here:)

The adjustability of the sticks does sound easy but I was referring to my split tail raceboard which required a screwdriver to move parts around. The hardware does add weight and since I routinely look for lighter components to build with, it is of importance to me and I of course do hear that from others too when they like how the boards they are riding are still quite light.

I just try to keep it as simple as possible for ease of design and use.

BV

[Jack M]

Of course no one board will do it all but nowadays it is possible to get a lot more out of a single board through good design and materials. Before Titanal there was no way I could ride an All Mountain board easily on steep icy hills, then go off to the side and blast in the wind blown in powder, then go on a blue run and have some nice peaceful carves.Just did this a few days ago here:)

This has also been my experience on my metal Coiler. It does it all, with no compromise on carving ability.

[Hans]

The hardware does add weight and since I routinely look for lighter components to build with, it is of importance to me and I of course do hear that from others too when they like how the boards they are riding are still quite light.

I just try to keep it as simple as possible for ease of design and use.

BV

Interesting point you bring here about the weight of the boards. If you look at WC-riders who use plates like Hangl and so on, the average weight of a board with plates is around 13 lbs or heavier. So how important is weight then??

[Bruce Varsava]

Interesting point you bring here about the weight of the boards. If you look at WC-riders who use plates like Hangl and so on, the average weight of a board with plates is around 13 lbs or heavier. So how important is weight then??

I have worked and still do work with top riders and trust me, if they could get rid of the weight and have the performance they would. They have directly said that to me many times. Also its weight is mostly right under foot so no added swing weight. At this time it just seems like a necessary part of the competition. I know one top rider who spent hours trying to lighten it up just a bit.What exactly makes the Hangl an advantage is still up for discussion as I have tried boards with and without immediately on the same hills and could not give a complete answer, I know it nearly injured me a few times so I no way will use it for freecarving, probably not even for racing as at my ability level( which is still quite good) I didn't find I could use its advantages. One instance I went into a toe side and slipped slip out ,the board started bouncing then my front binding ripped out of the top plate as the aluminum threads in the plate could not take the stress. My ankles were glad and I was also glad that I did not start spinning when falling as I would surely have been seriously injured with 13lbs and 184 cms on one leg:eek: Admittedly because I cannot get the time to increase leg strength to my youthful levels I will stay away from it .

BV

[Jack M]

Interesting point you bring here about the weight of the boards. If you look at WC-riders who use plates like Hangl and so on, the average weight of a board with plates is around 13 lbs or heavier. So how important is weight then??

It is apparent to me that we have reached a point where the goals and concerns of racing and freecarving have more differences than things in common. Freecarvers are looking for the pure, round carve on groomed terrain. Racers are looking for maximum speed and the shortest line in a horribly rutted up course. I've done a little racing, nothing serious, but ruts are a major factor that we simply don't have to deal with in freecarving. So saying something is the standard in racing means little to me now. Of course we have racing to thank for metal boards and new nose shapes, but I'm not about to add a 5-7 pound plate to my board and mount my bindings with a 4" setback. (On that note, it appears racers will have freecarvers to thank for the TD3)

I would think that if a racer could have a board that performed as well as a Kessler with Hangl but weighed 5 pounds less, they'd want it. I had a first-gen Prior metal WCR, and it was the lightest board I've ever owned by a significant margin. It was a very cool feeling - almost felt like the board wasn't even there and I was just flying. It also had no topsheet, so it was fragile.

[Bruce Varsava]

Hey Donek, get off this site and get to work:):):)

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

No, this would be for review only. If this is truly the next big thing, he should be happy to get it out there. After I'm done with my review, I'll ship it back and it can become a demo with which to educate others, or you can sell it for a small discount.

But if he's not sure this thing will carve well on eastern hardpack/ice, he probably won't want to have it reviewed on those conditions. I don't think it will work well for freecarving here; that's really my only point in this thread. But if I am wrong then lets prove it.

Thanks Jack, not at this time.

[GeoffV]

Hey Donek, get off this site and get to work:):):)

Bruce you must be caught up with orders uh:lol:

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Well said, I think your point about adjustability is right on.

Oh course you would. Describe your experience with a Tinkler adjustable flex snowboard please?

[Jack M]

Thanks Jack, not at this time.

bummer. seems like a vote of no confidence in the board.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Bryan (Oldsnowboards): my board comes first, you have to wait......

Yes Sir, you are correct!! :)

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

bummer. seems like a vote of no confidence in the board.

Sorry Jack, you will need to put your money where your mouth is and then wait in line for your chance to express your opinion.

[Jack M]

Sorry Jack, you will need to put your money where your mouth is...

you've got that backwards.

[Rob Stevens]

Before Titanal there was no way I could ride an All Mountain board easily on steep icy hills, then go off to the side and blast in the wind blown in powder, then go on a blue run and have some nice peaceful carves.Just did this a few days ago here:)

BV

What is this board? Can you make it wide so I have no overhang in a duck stance? 175? How much? Bruce... I want one of these.

It is apparent to me that we have reached a point where the goals and concerns of racing and freecarving have more differences than things in common. Freecarvers are looking for the pure, round carve on groomed terrain. Racers are looking for maximum speed and the shortest line in a horribly rutted up course. I've done a little racing, nothing serious, but ruts are a major factor that we simply don't have to deal with in freecarving.

We're happy to bring the knowledge to you.

[trailertrash]

Oh course you would. Describe your experience with a Tinkler adjustable flex snowboard please?

i never claimed to have any experience.

i would never spend $2k on a snowboard i can't demo.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

bummer. seems like a vote of no confidence in the board.

Jack, you write some good articles, however, between your brief periods of objectivity the negativity and bias are simply not good characterists for a "Vice-Administrator-A-Go-Go" or a board tester. So , again Thank you for your offer. We are not interested. Thanks, Bryan

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

i never claimed to have any experience.

Exactly. Opinions and speculations then , correct?

[Rob Stevens]

you've got that backwards.

You've got an ego on you, buddy!

Through the magic of the 'lectriweb, we can see you ride. That, combined with your own admission as to your lack of racing experience, leads me to beleive that you are not in a position to be reviewing this product.

You definitely get the job done, Jack, but you should know where to draw the line, especially when it comes to pinning it on the lastest race stock.

Bryan... Want to sell a "Sno-Dad" yet?

[Jack M]

Jack, you write some great articles, however, between your brief periods of objectivity the negativity and bias are simply not good characterists for a administrator or a board tester. So , again Thank you for your offer. We are not interested. Thanks, Bryan

If the board is that good, it will win me over. I would have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by writing a biased review. I would have a lot to gain if this turned out to be a great board.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

If the board is that good, it will win me over. I would have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by writing a biased review. I would have a lot to gain if this turned out to be a great board.

Mike Tinkler will make this decision after reviewing your offer and this thread.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Bryan... Want to sell a "Sno-Dad" yet?

Not quite yet Looking for the "Blue" one!!

WARNING: Don't click the "Enter" link.