What floats best? Rad-Air Tanker 200 or 187?

[Helvetico]

I've been riding a 182 for three years now, and it's a great board, but it's just not wide enough off-piste. I have to lean back to keep from burying the nose. I'm 5' 11" and 180-185...190+ with my hydration pack, helmet, etc. on.

My feet are small, but here's the thing...what if I put my Catek Freerides on a wide board? Shouldn't the power plate transfer more than enough...what else, power?...to the 187?

The advice of anyone who's ridden both boards is especially valued.

Thanks.

[felix]

If you really want loads of float, don't go for a tanker IMHO. I have a tanker 200 03/04 and ridden the newer 200s too. They're very nice allround boards and provide lots of float compared to most boards, however for entering turns with pressure on front foot just like on a raceboard.

I've only ridden the 200 (various seasons) so can't coment on the 187.

I'm probabely into buying a Powderequipment TypeB 190cm or 210cm next season as a supplement to the Tanker for big pow days when my tanker isn't enough anymore. Never had any board with so much float that wasn't a Swallowtail. Tried Dupraz and many other shapes, also many good pintails like Never Summer Summit which had very good float, but never had so much float and stability like on a Powderequipment Type B Custom. (They're manufactured at Jester - The first ever European snowboard builder - many should still know snowboard legend Werner Frueh who is still with Jester/Powderequipment). Also with 2.7-2.8kg at 190cm no other board comes even close in weight in this length. If you want loads of float, you'll need a powder specific board, not just a longboard.

[Helvetico]

Felix,

The Powderequipment type B looks very interesting. It reminds me of the Pogo longboard...the long nose and squared tail, that is. You feel you get more float of out one of these than a 200 Tanker? Impressive. I live in Switzerland and will actually be in Austria this week, but I doubt there are any demos available near Pitztal or Soelden...too late in the season.

How do these do on-piste in between powder runs? Swallow tails are notorious for breakage; are these capable enough to make it all the way down the narrow Talabfahrt at the end of the day?

Oh...you wouldn't have any idea of the price on the board, would you?

Thanks

[felix]

They go between 800-900€. Depending on what you want for layers. Like adding a an aditional carbon belt, or no topsheet, etc.. The basic shape has been evolved from the Jester Element (also loads of float, but only available up to 179cm - therfore only around 500€) however every Powderequipment is handmade and unique vs small production runs for the Jesters. You could give them a call in Konstanz. I'm sure they'll go touring with their boards as long as snow is left.

They are pretty different from the Pogos, but then for me it's been about 3-4 years since I've last tried Pogo longboards.

I think for trying them out this season might be a bit late. I tried them on the Freeride Test days and again at the Longboard Classic.

For riding on piste, they were o.k. Rode more like shorter boards, but then effective edge is very short compared to overall length (remember the nose being 34cm looooong). On crust the performance was very good too, only moguls were a bit more work for me than on a tanker. Straightlining moguls isn't that easy on them. Longlivety I have no clue, but quality is really nice.

Anyone I spoke with who tried the TypeB was very impressed for soft snow. You won't win any races on the Type B as on steep mogul sections I couldn't keep up to the speed I can go on the Tanker, but therefore in the forest the Type B turns much easier due to shorter radius and much more setback if you put the binders all the way to the back. With the low weight they are perfect boards for touring. 3-Splits are also available but I haven't tried them as I usually make my tours with others on snowshoes.

I never had problems with breakage of Swallows on the other hand. Only problem like on every other long board with much setback folding the nose on riding error. Simply much longer so higher chance of being trapped into something inside the forest.

They will attend all big freeride events next year again according to what they told me, probabely also the Swallowmania (they are not to keen on France as expensive boards are not easily sold there). They were also at the World Carving Session

[bobdea]

I've been riding a 182 for three years now, and it's a great board, but it's just not wide enough off-piste. I have to lean back to keep from burying the nose. I'm 5' 11" and 180-185...190+ with my hydration pack, helmet, etc. on.

My feet are small, but here's the thing...what if I put my Catek Freerides on a wide board? Shouldn't the power plate transfer more than enough...what else, power?...to the 187?

The advice of anyone who's ridden both boards is especially valued.

Thanks.

I like the 187 by a WIDE(pun alert!) margin mainly because it floats as well but due to width but handles easier in bumps and trees for the obvious reason, the vintage of the two boards I am comparing is possibly signifigant though this year's 187 compared to a 200 from around 02 or so. the new ones are supposed to have more taper and are softer which IMHO for those of us that ride softboots and ride pow is a plus.

My only complaint about the 187 is I'd actually like it a hair wider even though my feet are not huge but I like 20/10 degree angles and like tipping the board high so my ideal width is 27 with the cateks on a board.

if you're size ten and you're like me I'd say the 187 would be the board if you're a size eight then go for the 200, size 9 then you may be able to make both work if you don't mind really having to power a wider board. if you like higher angles I'd avoid the 187 because you'd be a little inbound with a size nine at 35 degree angles I'd think.

I'm trying not to pitch the board I have in the classifieds because I don't want you on somethng to wide that would be bad the minute you got on hard pack or if you decided to ride hard boots.

I wear a size 11 burton driver x BTW

if you want it let me know.

what size are your feet?

[Helvetico]

My feet are 9 wide, and I ride 30 F, 15 R. I'd take the 187 off your hands, but I live in Europe, so the shipping is a no-go...unless you've still got it on your hands this summer. I might go to the States to buy a car, what with the great exchange rate.

[bobdea]

I suppose if you only rode in soft snow it would be fine.......

you're right on the line where it would be pretty wide though

[Helvetico]

Thanks. I like the Tankers because of the speed they can generate on and off-piste, with the secondary being a greater concern. If I were to move up in price I'd probably talk to Radical in Zurich about a custom-made board.

[Mike T]

I know a couple of bigger guys (Greg M and Dan R for you Bachelor locals) who own both, and don't read or post here. I have observed they are usually on their 187s on the deeper days and 192s or 200s when there is a harder layer underneath the fluff.

[D.T.]

In this thread I posted a surface area comparison of the different '02 - '03 model year Tankers. The 187 and 200 had essentially the same surface areas. Don't know how that will vary now as Rad-Air has changed the dimensions over the years.

One thing I found out this weekend was that in ~8" fresh with ~24" in the last three days (combination of fresh and wind deposit) the Dupraz D1+ 6' out-floated/performed my 192cm Tanker!

[felix]

Well I only tried the Dupraz D1+ shortly, too short and though the snow was deep, it was very heavy too. I'm sure the Dupraz floats at least as good as the Tankers, however like the Tankers it needs to be ridden with centrail weight position (that's what Serge told me and he should know). Loading the front foot on Turn entry will be punished like on a tanker. While the tanker might dive in, the Dupraz would just not steer exactly anymore. Float is nowhere near to what you get on long Swallowtails or on a Powderequipment Type B, the Type B however being much better on traverses.

I'm a big lover of boards like Tanker or the excellent European alternative LTB, liking them for being really allround. However they simply don't give me the feeling of surfing and floating completely relaxed when you need the float. Especially when going slower the Tanker doesn't float enough to my liking which means much more work to do and having 60cm from the middle of the last insert to the back of the board simply takes loads of work to turn it around on jumpturns. With the Type B I had around 40cm only, making the board 10cm longer to the front, and 20cm shorter to the back. Maybe putting in some additional inserts 10cm back on the Tanker would work, but I think in that case the sidecut wouldn't work anymore for carving.

Just being in the backmost inserts on the Tanker 200 (mine has 1.2cm taper) I often have the nose below the snow, not necessarily getting stuck, but still under and not over the snow.

After trying out a many boards at the Freeride Test Days in Davos I posted a thread over those boards over at the EC forum: http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4013&highlight=powderequipment

You might have a look into that one too. Since then I've tried some more freeride sticks, and again the Type B which is still my great favourite, if it just were not so expensive. I too had one ride on the Radical Surf 222 (more exactly the Killer Loop 222), but too short to judge. It for sure floated pretty nicely though too.

[Jon Dahl]

In this thread I posted a surface area comparison of the different '02 - '03 model year Tankers. The 187 and 200 had essentially the same surface areas. Don't know how that will vary now as Rad-Air has changed the dimensions over the years.

I remember a post a while back, talking about SBX and equipment choice. Seems like Sean Martin chimed in about board width being a big factor in the speed on softer snow. So a 187 Wide would be theoretically faster than the 200 due to the extra width, as the snow got softer. So despite the same surface area, the wider board would be the better choice in deep snow. The trade-off is slower edge to edge performance on hardpack. There is always a compromise somewhere. The narrow Tanker may be the best all-rounder, but the Wide will be faster in the pow.

[refried]

I have two Tankers a '06 200 and a '03 177 HelliSnowcat and the 177 will float better than the 200 in light powder. I ride both with Catek Freerides and never had a problem with the board feeling too wide, I only use it on powder days so it has a different use than the 200 (it gets more use on groomers). It's not as good as a swallowtail in powder but it still gets lots of use.

[Helvetico]

Looks like the 187 is the way to go. I actually bought a used one on Ebay.de (Germany), but got ripped off by the person selling it: he never sent the thing. It's funny you should point out the 177W's float: I rented one three years ago and it was just astonishing the way it glided over deep, deep power. I bought the 182 without thinking much about the width, and was surprised at how much less float there was.