don pedro pistola Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 What is it with the heel edge? I can layout toe side and it feels great to put the palm of my hand on the hill! Then comes the heel edge and it's a different story...argh! The edge either slides out or skips like I'm playing hop-scotch. Should I increase my angles? I'll be getting a 7 degree cant plate soon but I already tuck my knee certainly enough to do the mysterious heel edge layout. How-now-pro-bro's??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glynn Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Most of the time heelside wash out happens for one or two reasons or both. Not enough weight on the front foot at the beginning of the turn or the riders hips are into the hill and not stacked over the board. On the first issue try to pull the board back and under you during the transition from toeside or bring your body over the front foot, either way amounts to the same thing. Then work the board front foot, both feet, back foot through the turn or feed the board through the turn as many people i.e. William Blake like to describe it. On the second issue it is frequently caused by your back hand trailing.It pulls the shoulder which pulls the hips then your toast. Bring that back hand up front and square up to your turn and that will pull your hips over the board. You should then start sticking your heelsides at least as well as your toesides if not better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don pedro pistola Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks so much, Carver! I'll try that out today (some of the midwest actually still has snow-can you believe it?) I'm pretty sure I understand all that you are saying-gives me some good stuff to try out! Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicHard Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 What is it with the heel edge? I can layout toe side and it feels great to put the palm of my hand on the hill! Then comes the heel edge and it's a different story...argh! Answering is easy: on the toeside, it's easier if you don't have a good technique to pur your palm on the snow (why are you talking about this as an "indicator" of the level of riding?), on the heelside it doesn't happen in the same easy way. I would suggest to post a video of you while riding and things could be much more clear... :) The edge either slides out or skips like I'm playing hop-scotch. Should I increase my angles? I'll be getting a 7 degree cant plate soon but I already tuck my knee certainly enough to do the mysterious heel edge layout. How-now-pro-bro's??? Ehm... you are not mentioning that the guilty could be your technique. You are just blaming cant plate, binding angles and heelside! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Most probably it is (lack of good) techinqe... counter-rotation, sticking out the butt and not flexing the knees are the usual suspects... But it is only natural, everyone goes through almost the same learning curve. It will go away, and with time your heelside will outperform your toeside. Ask the question then again and people here will also give you an explanation why that happens. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I try to keep in mind a couple things. One is to drop your rear knee into it. On heelside it may feel like you're tucking it behind your other knee (frowned upon these days) but it's just a coincidence. Of course you still need to be weighting your board correctly, but this should help keep your edge on the snow and keep you from sittin on the toilet. The other thing (they kinda work hand in hand) is to keep your trailing hand in front of you. On heelsides it helps to reach it down towards your leading knee. Either one of these tricks can be done without the other, but putting both together should really help hook up a good heelside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don pedro pistola Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thank you all VERY much! This gives me some really good ideas on technique to try out and apply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 What is it with the heel edge? I can layout toe side and it feels great to put the palm of my hand on the hill! Then comes the heel edge and it's a different story...argh! The edge either slides out or skips like I'm playing hop-scotch. Should I increase my angles? I'll be getting a 7 degree cant plate soon but I already tuck my knee certainly enough to do the mysterious heel edge layout. How-now-pro-bro's??? Welcome Mr. Pistola. Tough to say over the internet what the heck is going on but....... Tail washouts are often caused by over rotation of the upper body especially if you do so early in the turn. Just sets you up to be unbalanced straight legged on the front leg. Chatter seems to be more addressed by turn shape. If you point it down the mountain and turn the board sideways it will chatter. If you tip it up on edge early and guide the board (feed works too) through the turn you will start to eliminate chatter. Try to start focusing on the smooth feeling part of the turn and keep trying to get that feeling earlier and earlier. If your turn is complete by the time you cross the fall line you can't chatter. What are your angles? Not that I think that or cants will make much difference. What board? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Inkaholic gave me some good advice to stop chatter. He said to push the board through the turn with your feet and follow through with the turn. Or something to this effect. It worked for me. Like said above, complete the arc and don't get going down the fall line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Most of the time heelside wash out happens for one or two reasons or both.Not enough weight on the front foot at the beginning of the turn or the riders hips are into the hill and not stacked over the board. On the first issue try to pull the board back and under you during the transition from toeside or bring your body over the front foot, either way amounts to the same thing. Then work the board front foot, both feet, back foot through the turn or feed the board through the turn as many people i.e. William Blake like to describe it. On the second issue it is frequently caused by your back hand trailing.It pulls the shoulder which pulls the hips then your toast. Bring that back hand up front and square up to your turn and that will pull your hips over the board. You should then start sticking your heelsides at least as well as your toesides if not better. I think David pretty much nailed that answer. IMHO you also need to be lower for your heelside and driving towards your heelside more than toeside. Keeping in mind that your rear heel is often the very closest of your 4 pressure points to the middle of the board you really need to stack your weight over the front heel (70% ) at the turn initiation and pressure the nose of the board more suddenly and aggressively in the start of the turn (hips more forward than toeside). That is one way to "project" your weight forward so the board flexes the edge the way the snow wants to see it for a chatter free turn. ** one caveat... don't do this with a soft nosed board like a Burton PJ, Stat, Ultra Prime, Wild Duck Ducksifier, old Oxygen board, old Rossignol throttle, or moany older boards of common consumer quality- you could fold the nose and go over the handlebars. The most important key trick I tell people to get low for their heelside is to (AFTER YOU ARE OVER YOUR BOARD not sitting away) literally Bounce their front butt cheek off the snow (say 2 lbs of force- not even enough to break an egg) at the start of the carve... not great permanent technique.. but it is a positive feedback to confirm that you are low enough to start your heelside carve. Then once you know where that low point is.. you don't bounce off the snow anymore...just come really really really close every time. Everyone thinks they are so much lower than they really are... only the bounce tells you that you actually ARE low. VERY IMPORTANT- And if your rear ELBOW is not where you can see it out in your peripheral vision (remember you are looking towards your heelside so it has to be really forward) then... you may as well have not even bothered to start to turn.. You gotta have that rear hand forward..and the rear hand is not enough if your elbow is back (that cancels it out too). ________ Ford F-4Eat Transmission Picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Bring that back hand up front and square up to your turn and that will pull your hips over the board. You should then start sticking your heelsides at least as well as your toesides if not better. Worth repeating! Also, I find carving easier (both sides) with my stance centered. I rode for years with my stance a couple inches back, and switched a few years ago, and I think it helps. I'm more comfortable keeping my weight centered vs. keeping my weight forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 One day, as if by magic, your heelside will be better. After that point your toesides will never catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimo Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Keeping in mind that your rear heel is often the very closest of your 4 pressure points to the middle of the board you really need to stack your weight over the front heel (70% ) at the turn initiation and pressure the nose of the board more suddenly and aggressively in the start of the turn (hips more forward than toeside). Huh? Is an edit required here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 One day, as if by magic, your heelside will be better. After that point your toesides will never catch up. And when that day comes... read this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK moscraciun Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Sorry to jump in I don’t want to highjack the thread but my question is somewhat related? (I-mi still a newbie, it was my second year on hardboots) is my heelside(sequential shots) qualifies as a classic “seating on the toilet”? or how you guru's advise me to improve? Thank you BOL Rulz!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK moscraciun Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 and yes, i feel that I'm struggling with toeside even harder! classic but up sindrome! as described in Mr Michaud exceptional article! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnar Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 What is it with the heel edge? I can layout toe side and it feels great to put the palm of my hand on the hill! Then comes the heel edge and it's a different story...argh! The edge either slides out or skips like I'm playing hop-scotch. Should I increase my angles? I'll be getting a 7 degree cant plate soon but I already tuck my knee certainly enough to do the mysterious heel edge layout. How-now-pro-bro's??? My cure for the heel chatter was to tilt the canting of my front binding towards the heel edge. That makes the heelside less agressive. The difference was amazing... (Its very easy to try different canting and lift adjustmen on Catek's. Can easely be done on the way up in the lift! Thanx Catek!!!) Copied from www.alpinecarving.com : "Cant/Lift can also prevent the board from twisting, a common source of heel side chatter. If you rotate your torso toward the nose of the board, and you have a bent-knee style of carving, your stance will naturally twist the board, causing the nose of the board to carve a tighter turn than the tail. As a result, the board may skid or chatter...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 19, 2008 Report Share Posted April 19, 2008 something that helped me elininate heelside chatter was "Gilmour bias", slightly moving the rear foot to the toeside helped me prevent over pressuring the tail on heelside carves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.