New Guy, Wants to Carve

[willywhit]

That's funny, I have a pair of barely ridden Nordica SBHs that are too big for me, but they are 28.5s and may be a little tight. KingCrimson, measure your foot using this technique:

http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/Sizing_boots.pdf

and see what you come up with. All the bindings I've used (Bomber TD1 & TD2, Catek, Burton/Ibex and Phiokka) have worked fine with the SBHs which have a ski boot style DIN sole. The only issue I've seen with ski boots or the SBHs is that F2 toe bails don't fit right and you have to do some creative dremeling. F2 bindings are great -just not with ski-style boots.

I might be into buying those sbh's. Remind me or send me an email. I've graduated to head stratos but haven't ridden them yet. SBH's are great.

gotta run~

the court of the crimson king

[KingCrimson]

We slowly turn the grinding wheel...

So the 28.5s would be foolhardy for me to quickly swipe out from..under willy's feet, being that they are too large?

I guess I didn't have a great time carving with the 13's the silly rental place gave me..what a game that was, I felt like I was in Rain boots or something, but I found some cleats on the side of the lace guides (I think cleat is the right word, I'm thinking sailboats here, such as a line cleat, same function) to really tighten the laces and then click them in before tying, but obviously that would be difficult to do with the laces on a hardboot...being that they don't exist.

I did make a post expressing interest in them, but if you want to sell them to willy, that's a-ok.

Lullabies in an ancient tongue..In the court of the Crimson King...

Sorry, don't get me started on King Crimson, I never stop.

Thanks for the Coil ad, looks like a nice board, can't wait to try one out, thanks guys! One comment on the Ride Faster, Skiers Are Beating You- No they aren't, even with a freestyle board. If you get a snow enema on a double black diamond covered in ice for a quarter mile with a board that won't even dig in because it keeps being deflected because of all the toe overhang, no skier is gonna keep up, unless they themselves are getting a good cleaning in the process. It's been proven :)

[BlueB]

Ted, welcome on Bomber!

Carrefull with boot sizing, it's crucial component for your riding.

You sound a bit confused there. Started with statement that you have 12 US street shoes, and rode too big 13 soft boots, then somehow sized yourself to 27 mondo? Just doesn't sound right... 27 mondo is more like 9 US size...

Start by drawing outline of your bare foot to a pieco of paper. Measure in centimetres the length of the drawing - that's your mondo point size. Do not buy bigger boots hoping to grow int them. Majority of people downsize at least 1/2 number. Too large boots will ruin your performance and comfort and can lead to serious injury.

My 2c Cad.

Boris

[KingCrimson]

Haha, busted out the BIG calipers, 28.

Does that sound more realistic? My sizing for 12 is based off Converse, not exactly precision shoes.

Man...why can't everyone just be american? Farenheit and completely erroneous scales not relative to each other at all for life!

[KingCrimson]

Hey, sorry to double post, I know how irritating it gets when people do it all the time, so I'll keep this to a minimum.

Does anyone have the number for Tim's shop in Wrightwood? That would be so convenient, being that he's RIGHT there.

1 more thing- I understand the flex patterns are different, so will Ski boots severely hinder good technique?

Proper snowboarding boots are a real challenge for me to find.

[AaronG]

Does anyone have the number for Tim's shop in Wrightwood? That would be so convenient, being that he's RIGHT there.

King, it appears that they had a name change, it is now called Powder and Sun Mountain Outhouse.

1433 State Hwy 2

760-249-3191

[NateW]

a) go for it.

b) keep an eye on the 'for sale' forum here, you should be able to find bindings for under a hundred or less, and a board for $200 or less. Maybe significantly less.

Ski boots will work, and some people actually like them, but I think you'll be better off getting snowboard boots. Used snowboard boots show up for sale fairly often here.

[KingCrimson]

Well, I talked to my dad just now about Ski boots, he says even with a non race oriented boot, there isn't much flex, does this make sense?

I think that I will like Ski boots because A. They are going to be much easier to find, and B. will leave money over for lift tickets, even if there is harm to my technique.

But of course, until the point at which I buy stuff, I will be constantly looking at the for sale section. Thanks for your info.

Oldvolvo- Thanks for the number, I shot off an email upon finding their site, and will call as well on Monday.

I hate to be nagging with lots of questions on the same topic, but it seems like some people are "eh" about using ski boots, some people say it would be fine, and ToolCan has said definitely not.

Right now, I should be looking for a damp board with a wide waist and mid 160cm and greater in length, does this sound right? It's basically what I've gathered from reading the Almanac. Is there a particular shape that would be better for me as well? One more versatile such as the Burton Coil?

[Steve Prokopiw]

If you are set on using skiboots,you will find that throughout hardbooting history that there is no other boot that has the legendary status for fit and ease of modification as the Raichle Flexon Comp.I have some that I intended to use for days of teaching on skis and then switching to carving boards between lessons. It turned out that I was busy enough with snowboarding this season that I never once skied ,but I used Flexons as hardboots for several years in the late 80's early 90s and always liked them.There are several companies using the same design base now ,such as Dalbello,Line,and Full Tilt(which uses exactly the same as the old shell design) Apparently,as stated in another thread,some world cuppers are now using the Dalbello ski boots.

[KingCrimson]

Haha, gotta love Galactic Snowsports..

http://galacticsnowsports.com/dalbello-rear-entry-ski-boots-grey.html

Now, surely, these aren't what you're talking about.

But for seriousness's sake, http://galacticsnowsports.com/dalbello-mx-ski-boots-grey.html

Are these what you're talking about? Something tells me that's more of a..wallet friendly alternative.

These are what have been on my rental boards, I love these, I could pick them up for a penny..

http://galacticsnowsports.com/rossignol-step-in-snowboard-bindings.html

And then ductape them to the dalbellos, and have a 30.01 hardboot...ish setup.

I can use scotch tape, and call it a loose DIN setting. :D

Sorry, strike of the non-Ritalin suppressed ADD..

Could I use the stiffer step-in style Rossi boots with the Rossi step in bindings I just posted up on a Carving board? Would that provide adequate performance?

Further unsupressed ADD strikes again (Bigmouth strikes again La-Dee-Da?)

What if I unscrewed the plate from the bootom of the 1 penny Rossi step in boots, and mounted them on the bottom of the 30 dollar Dalbellos, and used THOSE as step in on Rossi bindings?

Would this work, or I am just being overly creative and cheap?

[Steve Prokopiw]

on the Rossi stepins! Those are the worst rental binding since clickers and worse than that.They develop enough play(slop) eventually to detract from your riding and inhibit performance. As for the boots,no on those also.The Rampage and the Krypton are the Dalbello models I was referring to.I have seen the Rampage go for 175.00 new on fleebay.I have seen older Flexons in great shape go for 50.00 shipped however.If you go with older Flexons, they tend to run more true to street size than newer boots.Get the ones with the dual density tongues(Comps)

[KingCrimson]

on the Rossi stepins! Those are the worst rental binding since clickers and worse than that.They develop enough play(slop) eventually to detract from your riding and inhibit performance. As for the boots,no on those also.The Rampage and the Krypton are the Dalbello models I was referring to.I have seen the Rampage go for 175.00 new on fleebay.I have seen older Flexons in great shape go for 50.00 shipped however.If you go with older Flexons, they tend to run more true to street size than newer boots.Get the ones with the dual density tongues(Comps)

Haha I kid I kid..I know they are garbage, it was my ADD talking of course.

I will be sure to keep my eyes open for Flexons, thank you.

Found some Flexon T's in the right size. Nothing about being a comp, is there a huge importance to the dual density tongue? Is it for flex reasons?

I tried to bid on the Burton Factory Prime 167 someone here on BOL has up on eBay, but I didn't meet his reserve, as I didn't want to bid much before making sure it would be okay for me. What are your guy's opinions on that board for all 6 feet 1 inch and 185 lbs of meat of me?

[BlueB]

Look also for the model CarveX or CRX (same thing), at the pic. They are the same as the Head/Blax Stratos, so highly spoken about snowboard boots. They are a bit harder to find but worth the effort.

Keep in mind that Flexons fit narrow - try them out in a shop. Older Raichle version is easy to find cheap in used condition.

Old Nordica 881 work great to. Fit is wide. Very cheap used.

There are few older Dynafit and Dachstain models with flexing devices built in (springs at the back) that might work too.

Boris

[BlueB]

Another Dalbello CarveX pic.

[Steve Prokopiw]

about the narrow fit of Raichles.I have always found it easy to shave the liners where the hot spots were.The dual density tongue just has a slightly stiffer plastic in the center that keeps it from deforming as much when flexed.A feature I wish the Raichle snowboard tongues had.

[KingCrimson]

Great, I will definitely keep my eyes open for these boots.

Really appreciate your guy's help here :)

I'm gonna hit Mountain High this evening, and then in the morning, and high tail it outta there when it gets warm.

[willywhit]

That's funny, I have a pair of barely ridden Nordica SBHs that are too big for me, but they are 28.5s and may be a little tight. KingCrimson, measure your foot using this technique:

http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/Sizing_boots.pdf

and see what you come up with. All the bindings I've used (Bomber TD1 & TD2, Catek, Burton/Ibex and Phiokka) have worked fine with the SBHs which have a ski boot style DIN sole. The only issue I've seen with ski boots or the SBHs is that F2 toe bails don't fit right and you have to do some creative dremeling. F2 bindings are great -just not with ski-style boots.

sent email about da boots, nice lookin Kessler ya got there:biggthump

[KingCrimson]

Hey guys!

I me a TON of progress the past few days, I'm one of the faster ones down the slope now (not bad for 4 days on the slope)

I can ALMOST keep up with my dad, but using the POS Rossi with softboots doesn't give me very much edge hold, or very much responsiveness.

Loading the crap out of the tail will give a good response, but the lack of torsional stiffness forces me to have a very responsive rear foot, I guess that's a good thing.

Saw 2 carvers, both on Swallowtails (I think) absolutely flying down the hill, made me wish I was on a real board..Any chance I spotted one of you guys?

I tried setting the angles forward on the bindings, but it made my heelside go to hell, and my toeside fantastic..Lot more control and better feel with my knees driving the board, I liked it a lot more, but couldn't keep it up..my lack of heelside was causing me to lose control a little too much.

Also, my foot goes facing forwards on the stomp pad, and it feels more normal.

I'm hooked, I've got to go hardboots. Every lack of something I've complained about seems to be something an Alpine board excels at.

Carve or die..couldn't be better said.

[AaronG]

Saw 2 carvers, both on Swallowtails (I think) absolutely flying down the hill, made me wish I was on a real board..Any chance I spotted one of you guys?

Any board can absolutely fly down the hill, point it straight it goes fast. I get that question all the time at Summit, "Wow, that must be a fast board?" Sure it is fast if I point it straight down the hill, same with skis, or freestyle decks. When I am carving I am actually going considerably slower than most snowboarders due to the carving through and across the fall line. On steeper slopes I actually carve back up the hill and then roll onto the new edge to help keep the speed in check. That is why most carvers here will actually take a peek uphill while on their toeside turns to see if someone is overtaking them.

In carving, it is more about the G-forces that you feel when locked into a carve, hauling ass straight down the fall line doesn't get my adrenaline going, besides, it is unsafe to do so. Watch the videos on you tube, you rarely see a vid (besides the speed snowboarding vid) where the carvers are zooming straight down a hill, where is the excitement in that??

Alpine (carving) boards are desigend for carved turns, notice the sidecut!! Absolutely flying down the hill while not turning is not what they were built for. It is all about the carve!!

[SEJ]

So true oldvolvo. Bet I had five people ask me today "I bet that goes really fast?" I said "A cafeteria tray will go really fast if you wax it." These do however have much more control at speed. That's what they're built for, CONTROL at speed, unlike the other boards you see going a million miles an hour straight down the hill, this one can actually stop and turn at speed. Got a good laugh out of it every time.

[carvedog]

I'm hooked, I've got to go hardboots. Every lack of something I've complained about seems to be something an Alpine board excels at.

Carve or die..couldn't be better said.

Have you found some boots? Sure you are a size 30?

I may have some gear for you. Will have to root around. Definitely have some size 29 reactors and some old Megaflex in a 30. Cant find the raichles right now. Who knows.

[Jack M]

KC, there is some info in the links below that you will probably find helpful. They directly address your questions.

And, uhh... anyone care to clue me in as to why these weren't mentioned earlier?

[willywhit]

theo~

we're gonna follow your ongoing progress with alpine. I want you to throw some elbows on any so cal poseur chain wallet sportin' knuckle draggin' punks you might run into/over on tha hill. tear it up , kid !

[KingCrimson]

I wasn't pointing straight down by any means, I was doing my best to mimic my father's Skiiing technique.

He's fairly oldschool, first time on shape skiis was...2 weeks ago.

But he carves it up like no other, and from the lift, I could tell what I had been doing.

My carves are linked beautifully, I'm rather surprised how professional it looks...nothing I do turns out neatly :D

I wasn't doing the "point flat, tear until premature fecal release, try to edge to stop, fall until premature bone...snappage" technique by any means. I got that out of my system my first day.

2nd day, I tried carving, but couldn't link very well, I had to go goofy-regular-goofy staying on heelside until I fell, and then went toeside, and vice versa

3rd day, same case, getting more familiar

4th day, Sunday HOLY COW out of the blue, I was linking heelside to toeside carves, springing the tail, not stopping, and having the time of my life! Not to mention spending time teaching my older brother how to carve, who had taught me the basics a few days earlier! Heck, any of you who are younger siblings know how awesome that is!

And now I sit here, 4 days on the snow..and addicted to carving.

Yeah..the wallet chain punks are real trouble. Now, I may walk around with long hair and usually an ACDC shirt, (sometimes Journey! Yes, everyone at school hates a lot of the music I like!) but I certainly don't get into the junk most of these kids are doing, like getting of the lift, and sliding down into the trees and smoking pot...and the total disregard for safety..doing jumps and such without a helmet..

Oh well..You get into a sport, you have to deal with the ninnies.

Oh, one more thing!

Those carvers weren't going straight, they were taking a very tight carve, only about 8 feet in width.

They started out wider and faster, but there was slush and people at the bottom.

Moderator- Thanks for the links, but all that stuff was pretty much covered in the almanac. I just wanted some clarification on a few things. All that stuff like the Norm, I just managed to sneak right by it, I'm beyond that, I just need to get into real alpine gear now :)

I really am blessed with an addiction to edging on the board. I'm sure a dull, pitted, chipped, rusty edge on the rental Rossi was doing wonders for my edge hold too. The board folds up and clacks and jumps when I go beyond a certain point, making me slow down, and loosen up my carves.

[Allee]

From someone who took aboput 10 days to even learn to stand up - well done, young one. Now you just need some gear, a mentor who knows what he's/she's doing, and you'll really be carving.

I also want to hear about the first time you load the nose and go for the mackerel slap from hell. Cos you're not a real carver until you've done that!!

(Props to Terekhov for the awesome pic ...)