Soft Boot Carving

[Rob Stevens]

To see if you're really getting maximum compression and extension (vertical movement) I'd have you stand in your regular (forward) stance and squat and then do it with your back foot kicked out a bit duck.

Most people seem to be able to get alot lower when their feet are splayed a bit, much like the position a weighlifter would use in a squat rack.

This doesn't meen you'll feel more balanced, or "better" as you should feel stronger in the stance you use now, rather than a new one.

[lonerider]

I don't see where that should go over your head.

You misunderstood me. I mean that whenever someone says "it's for the cause" or for the "good of the community" in reality they are trying to convince of something they don't agree with and not bothering to give the real reasons. Instead you should just present your point of view and let people decide for themselves. Like in your second post you gave a better line of reasoning. Here you are putting for your opinion and allowing people to judge it based on it's own merits.

don't alienate people based on suppositions. Do you really think that the comment "Guys who gave up their hardboots for softboots... well, I find they really can't rail their softboots either, so I figure carving wasn't for them" is not accurate where many riders are concerned.

It's not like members of BOL don't alienate people based on suppositions. Try searching for "jibber" or "monkey" and you'll see a lot "alienating" comments. Every couple of months, someone posts asking about improving their carving (without alpine gear) and inevitably (most posts are helpful) someone says the equivalent "give it up, you can't carve in softboots. buy hardboots". The difference is that those comment alienate the "outsider", Gilmour is attack the "main group" which is kind of difficult to actually "alienate" don't you think?

So I see John Gilmour's comment as a reply to people who say things like "The only thing soft boots are good for is walking... Oh, well I guess soft set ups do make it easier to slide sideways." or "YEECCHH!!!! I hated riding in that gear! I couldn't wait to get that crap off my feet! And dealing with those insane strap bindings was obnoxious" To them he's saying "it's not the gear that sucks... it's you that suck"

[Dr D]

Our stated purpose is to advance the sport. The way I see it that means reaching out to softbooters and showing them what we do. Carving is the first step and the desire for better equipment is the second step. We should discuss these things openly and without negative comments toward the gear we all came from. we should also try the old softies every now and again instead of sitting in the lodge when the groom isn't just right;) or learn to ride the hard boots in the deep and steep your choice.:D

[Rob Stevens]

I'd just like to go riding, eat and chug some booze with you people live.

We'd all get it so much better.

[Guest mattyd]

Hey Rob!

I heard about noboarding when I was in Whistler recently. Saw some photos in a local mag there and I like the look of this style. Will contact Cholo and see if he can ship a kit or two down here.

Thanks for the website link.

Matt.

[Bullwings]

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that, I think, spending quality time carving soft makes you better when you carve hard. I hate to admit it here but I took all of last year and most of the year prior off from my hard set-up. Spent lots of time soft carving. Not intentionally, just worked out that way. And now this season, I broke back out the hard gear and things feel different, better, more precise and consistent.

I could say the same in the opposite. Picked up the softboots this season after riding only plates all of last season, and my softboot riding has improved dramatically.

Last year, I was ready to dump my softboot gear. It's a good thing I broke my leg and decided to ride softies this season, I've been having so much fun. It's also a lot more friendly in powder, chop, and crud. This might be a mis-informed and narrow minded statement, but it seems that hardboots are only good for groomers and hard packed conditions. Once conditions get all tracked out, or it's a pow pow day, the softies shine.

As for carving, it's like the EVO VIII vs. the Ferrari F1 analogy. Sure the F1 eats up the turns on asphalt, but would you take it on a dirt/gravel road? Hardboots = mad carver, low versatility. Softboots = capable carver, high versatility. That being said, people here use hardboots for everything and swear by it, which is cool. You can use a regular screw driver for a philips head screw, but it would definitely be better if you had a philips screw driver... You can also use a spoon to cut a steak if you really wanted too...

[photodad2001]

Our stated purpose is to advance the sport. The way I see it that means reaching out to softbooters and showing them what we do. Carving is the first step and the desire for better equipment is the second step. We should discuss these things openly and without negative comments toward the gear we all came from. we should also try the old softies every now and again instead of sitting in the lodge when the groom isn't just right;) or learn to ride the hard boots in the deep and steep your choice.:D

Preach it brother D!!! Don't be too good for the snow!!!

[Steve Prokopiw]

I don't fully buy the versatility argument against hardboots.From a performance standpoint, my hardboots ,even when mounted to a freeride board are so vastly superior to any softboot I have ridden that the small trade off in comfort in powder(actually no trade in comfort for me personally) is well worth it in almost any other situation.Except for this particular winter,most time spent in the real world is spent on packed snow even when tree riding.As for the park,my hardboots are much easier on my ankles and my knees can apparently handle the stress. As for screw drivers,sometimes a flathead actually works better in a phillips screwhead that has been rounded out.And as long as the spoon is sharp...The board is more important than the boots when determining versatility or lack thereof.As I pop a fat three with a grab off the cat track and into a bump field with no care as to what line I will have to choose upon landing,(one of my favorite maneuvers on my 168 proton)I thank my lucky stars I have the support so generously offered by my hardboots.

[newcarver]

I'll 2nd you on that Steve. I have just started riding in HB's this season and love it so far. I rode an AM/FC board in 5" of powder and was able to do everything I do on my FR board in softies, except faster and with more control. Then I was able to lay over some mean carves on the groomers. I am going to try out my favorite powder/free ride board with plates now. I think it will be a great experience:ices_ange I don't do freestyle anymore so I think this is the ticket to the most fun. Only part that isn't as fun is walking around in the HB's. I think I can live with that though to get the other added benifets. I do have to say that carving in softboots did help me a great deal to transfer over to the hardboots. The hardboots made it much easier to carve, along with a carving board, and was much easier on my feet than carving in softies.

[Neil Gendzwill]

This might be a mis-informed and narrow minded statement, but it seems that hardboots are only good for groomers and hard packed conditions. Once conditions get all tracked out, or it's a pow pow day, the softies shine.

Most of where I ride isn't groomed. It's not that I don't enjoy a good groomer, just that I'd rather be elsewhere, and I do it all in my soft hardboots. I see some guys who do it all in stiff softies. There's compromise equipment for either style. If I switched up to a super-stiff raceboot with Bombers or Cateks, I might be struggling off the groom, don't know - never been inspired to change up to that.

That being said, people here use hardboots for everything and swear by it, which is cool. You can use a regular screw driver for a philips head screw, but it would definitely be better if you had a philips screw driver... You can also use a spoon to cut a steak if you really wanted too...

I think of my boots more like a swiss army knife - I can cut that steak pretty well with the blade, and turn that screw with the screwdriver but if I wanted to do either of those things all the time I'd want the dedicated tool.

[b0ardski]

I agree with Steve, there is no problem riding pow in tight trees on a wide all mountain board with stepin plates, then stepin to the AM carver for steeps & bumps, then stepin to the alpine for some trench diggin, then stepin to skis for some switchcarving. Different tools for different jobs with 1 universal interface.

Changing boots to use a soft powder board just seems like a waste of time & money to get inferior edge control. I'm all about convenience, comfort,& control, laces & straps do none of that for me.

I ride all types of boards switch all over the mountain (sans alpine in pow) but the knees wont let me ride duck even if I wanted to.

I see no advantage to buying a soft set up.

[BlueB]

I feel quite the same. Yet, I ride softies for some other reasons.

Just not to get into another soft vs. hard discussion, let's get beck on the toppic:

SOFT BOOT CARVING, which is a great toppic already.

[John Gilmour]

If your snowboarding consists of simply turning left and right, you might be on to something...

**** Well for me and many on this site... most of snowboarding is turning left and right... I must admit I barely ride fakie and my air days are limited by my free access to orthopedic surgery,

Ouch. This comment does little to help the cause. You're straight out alienating me, for one. Preferring soft boots means a person has chosen low performance riding, or an easy way out? I just choose "horses for courses".

**** Well when speaking strictly of carving on hard snow- soft boots are the low performance choice. Similar to racing SUV's on a F1 track. Not that it is not fun- but certainly not pulling leg buckling G's.

I won't try to rationalize peoples choices with foolish statement like the previous one. I hardly ever ride alpine anymore, but when I do, not many full time hardbooters can hang. I did my time and the skills haven't gone away... They're just being put to work differently.

This is like the stupid debate between "eurocarving" and "race carving". The best can do both and will apply either whenever the urge strikes them. That is the benefit of being super-so-rad.

So this guy chose soft boots because he couldn't properly flex an alpine board? OK.

***I'm not giving an opinion- AT ALL. I'm just noting what I have seen. I've seen tons of softbooters who can carve in softboots that gave up Alpine soons after buying a cheap low performance Alpine set up- they gained little from hardboots on say a Burton Alp and 2-3 seasons of riding and went right back to softbooting...unfortunately...without learning good Alpine skills before abandoning Alpine. (the cheap alpine gear was limiting in allowing their skills to progress efficiently and quickly)

***I've also seen Alpiners who rode low quality rentals (or poorly sized hand me down halfpipeboards) on softboots and went straight to Alpine and have a bad view of softboots. They never learned to carve softboots at a high level either. (Uhhh... hello.....little confession...... I gave up on softboots for 12 years after swapping to hardbboots in 1983 -despite the fact that some decent softboot set ups were around and could carve in the 1990's- I did not return to Softboots until 1995...so I am one of those people I am talking about).

***Todays Softboot set ups have much higher performance than those of years ago- mostly because the highback interface has improved in terms of flex pattern (on top models)... the straps now help with progressive flex (on mid level to top models) ...not unlike a hardboot, and the boots are a far cry from 1991 Airwalks... The entire adjustability of the binding on higher level models has helped too. It's not just about levering the board... its about biomechanically placing your feet where they will be most efficient on the board. Todays soft bindings have really improved in this realm.

***I personally think snowboarders should be able to turn well in both kinds of set ups. Why? Because I think if you are out there amongst others...who can maneuver well.... (on skis and boards) you should make an attempt to be as competent as you can be both in skills and your equipment choice.

If a hardbooter is riding with 11 inches of choppy new snow on top of groomers.... lets face it... he is not well equipped to deal with that mess... and he should be on soft boots- or at the very least on softer hardboots on an all mountain set up.

And conversely if its chalk and ice out there... the soft booters are the poorly equipped riders (except for exceptionally good softbooters) and if you have the choice you should be on a nice alpine set up- if you are out there arcing at speed.

***But snow conditions change... So IMHO all snowboarders who carve Hard boots should also know how to carve in softboots. I WOULD wish it also was vice versa (except I enjoy having the slopes to myself on chalk days).

***So my response will inflame both groups.. softbooters and hardbooters.. in that I feel you both should know how to do both.

***Look I can carve chalk on steeps in softboots. I also can run in deep powder in bardboots (if it is steep) and deal with some chop too and air.. But why force an inappropriate set up upon a particular snow condition? It's really taxing on yourself to force the gear upon the wrong conditions- you'll fatigue faster and find it more difficult to recover from a mistake- and harder to regain balance or reset your edge.

Your last sentence is probably more accurate and goes aways to pointing out why a good rider should learn to appreciate both setups.

I find it pretty shocking when a person of substance in snowboarding, like you sound to me, has such an outlook on this subject.

*** Thanks for calling me a person of substance in snowboarding.. I'm just another snowboarder like everyone else on this board whose opinion is worth the same as everyone else's.

***You see- oddly, I'm one of those guys who rides hardboots and still encourages hardbooters to learn how to rail in softboots too. And in regards to self handicapping... when I'm riding with softbooters in 11 inches of chop on soft groomers....and I'm the only one in hardboots... I am the one who is self handicapping in hardboots... it all depends on the snow conditions you are presented with. It works both ways.

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Bmw r90s

[John Gilmour]

I think that's all that's being talked about in the thread... I know I want softies in the chop and powder, and I think that's what others are saying in previous posts. I'd even concede that if I could only have a single board, it would be a freeride board. I just find it interesting that if someone really likes carving and you have the means - why wouldn't you ride hard gear when you have that carving jones - just like you'd ride a powder board in the powder? I contend that a lot of it - for many riders - is image. Alpine snowboarding doesn't fit in with the all-to-ironically labeled 'counter-culture'.

I read a lot about Vin too, and have even seen pics... I bet he really can carve the hell out of softboots, but I wonder if he can carve chalk down the headwall of Superstar? I'm willing to eat my words to see it, but I have rarely seen that done in hardboots (not by me of course :rolleyes:) - I am awaiting the day I see it done in softies.

Vin is also (to my possibly faulty knowledge) the head snowboard guy for Basin Ski's snowboard side (Surf the earth?). They are RIGHT across the street from the most fashionable, most popular snowboard shop in town - Darkside. From a business perspective, maybe 5 years ago, for a well known Ski oriented shop to contend with the coolest of the cool snowboard shops directly across the street, one could argue that pushing Alpine was not the thing to do. This was roughly when they dropped alpine gear (to their credit - I believe they were the last around Killington to do so - and you certainly lose $$ on product that doesn't sell).

Vin and I used to carve Superstar in our softboots on chalk. Me, just to see if it could be done... but Vin was having a blast. He had given up hardboots at that point and he was one of the most best Killington carvers on His hardboot 24/7 set up. I was his old roommate years ago.

Vin also carves Outerlimits on a regular basis whenever the bumps are off of it on his softboots. That's a steeper trail than Superstar. Vin does ride a super stiff all mountain board- the stiffest bindings he can find along with the stiffest hardboots he can find and as a buyer for Out of Bounds Snowboards- he has access to everything.

Both of us run high stance angles for soft boots and rotated highbacks. We ride forward and low.

I'm not the same gear wise- in that I prefer a flexier softboot set up that is powder friendly, a softboot binding with a highback with some give that won't dig into your calf, and very supportive straps - I would replace my old Malamutes in heartbeat as soon as I step into a boot that is as comfortable and has a smooth flex pattern.

Vin is perhaps the most knowledgeable person I know of to talk with about softboot carving AT SPEED. He also takes the time to properly set up everyone makes an effort to ride with his customers... not talking with Vin before you buy a Softboot carving set up is likely a big mistake. If there is something out there that will help your riding- it is likely he knows about it- and possibly sells it or has access to it.

________

FORD REFLEX SPECIFICATIONS

[DiveBomber]

You misunderstood me. I mean that whenever someone says "it's for the cause" or for the "good of the community" in reality they are trying to convince of something they don't agree with and not bothering to give the real reasons. Instead you should just present your point of view and let people decide for themselves. Like in your second post you gave a better line of reasoning. Here you are putting for your opinion and allowing people to judge it based on it's own merits.

It's not like members of BOL don't alienate people based on suppositions. Try searching for "jibber" or "monkey" and you'll see a lot "alienating" comments. Every couple of months, someone posts asking about improving their carving (without alpine gear) and inevitably (most posts are helpful) someone says the equivalent "give it up, you can't carve in softboots. buy hardboots". The difference is that those comment alienate the "outsider", Gilmour is attack the "main group" which is kind of difficult to actually "alienate" don't you think?

So I see John Gilmour's comment as a reply to people who say things like "The only thing soft boots are good for is walking... Oh, well I guess soft set ups do make it easier to slide sideways." or "YEECCHH!!!! I hated riding in that gear! I couldn't wait to get that crap off my feet! And dealing with those insane strap bindings was obnoxious" To them he's saying "it's not the gear that sucks... it's you that suck"

I can rail it pretty good in soft boots, But why would I want to?

I stand by my statement soft boots suck. You wouldnt ski in soft boots would you? They stopped that Decades ago.

I think you are confusing the board with the boots.

Just get some really soft HB bindings like burtons/ibex.

Ridining in soft boots feels like driving with half inflated tires.

I take my HBs everywhere. on any board. But why the heck would I want to ride a 25cm wide board???(in anything but chest deep pow)

the only thing SBs are good for is the rails and HP, but I'm working on taking the HBs in the HP too (my boards dont touch rails or anything hard)

I can wear my HBs all day long, I ride from open to close, SBs kill my feet.

Oh and you can make the Mistu Evo vs F1 comparison

but this works <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFg3wZleZ-Y&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFg3wZleZ-Y&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[mrjamie]

it's been snowing and the wind has been howling at 25m/s for the past two days... today all the mid and upper-mountain lifts were closed. Tomorrow is going to be a lot of wind-packed powder that collapses when an edge cuts in.

Any advice on what to do with this snow from those of you who do see some reason to put away the hardboots on occasion? :p

[kmartshopper]

...wind-packed powder that collapses when an edge cuts in.

Any advice on what to do with this snow from those of you who do see some reason to put away the hardboots on occasion? :p

You'll be in good shape if you don't let the downhill edge get under the crust. So simple! :rolleyes:

That's actually a good example day for what I've been saying - I'd ride hardboots and pull the big G's in the AM on what will likely be hero cord. Switch to softies after a couple hours after it gets broken up a little and cruise the soft snow - and still be able to carve (a little less hard) when I end up on a groomer from then out.

________

Curvy Webcams

[kmartshopper]

Vin and I used to carve Superstar in our softboots on chalk.

...

Vin also carves Outerlimits on a regular basis whenever the bumps are off of it on his softboots. That's a steeper trail than Superstar.

I wish I had run into him over the years. I did shares at Killington for 5 years and rarely ran into any carvers (I only did a few days/year on the hardboots myself until things started clicking and I finally eclipsed my soft carving abilities this year). I even more rarely saw decent soft carvers. I haven't been there in two years though. I'd love to see that though. I'm not much of an athlete, so I know there are people that can do what I can do, but much better... it's just statistics that are working against me running into them (ie. such a small % of boarders actually carve turns)

I think (specifically) the superstar headwall and Ovation endwall are the steepest pitches... OL is just longer more continuous pitch. I'd carve OL in softies in groomed nice snow, but not chalk - also, not as tight of a radius that I'd like.

I saw a guy - once - popping tight hip to hip SL turns, speed perfectly controlled, down that superstar headwall in chalk, and that's what actually made me try hardbooting! I can lay one or two big S's down it, but that's not *really* carving, as I aspire to do it. Plus I'm too chicken to go that fast. :rolleyes:

________

AVANDIA LAWYER

[mrjamie]

You'll be in good shape if you don't let the downhill edge get under the crust. So simple! :rolleyes:

That's actually a good example day for what I've been saying - I'd ride hardboots and pull the big G's in the AM on what will likely be hero cord. Switch to softies after a couple hours after it gets broken up a little and cruise the soft snow - and still be able to carve (a little less hard) when I end up on a groomer from then out.

er, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. There is maybe 50cm or so of windpacked powder... any time you put an edge in, regardless of where it's facing, the nose tends to submarine 50cm down to the bottom... it's really light snow (-14c) but really windpacked. So it's not so much that there is a crush on top, or if you want to use that analogy, the crust is quite soft.

[GStam93]

im new, can ski boots fit into carving bindings??

[John Gilmour]

I wish I had run into him over the years. I did shares at Killington for 5 years and rarely ran into any carvers (I only did a few days/year on the hardboots myself until things started clicking and I finally eclipsed my soft carving abilities this year). I even more rarely saw decent soft carvers. I haven't been there in two years though. I'd love to see that though. I'm not much of an athlete, so I know there are people that can do what I can do, but much better... it's just statistics that are working against me running into them (ie. such a small % of boarders actually carve turns)

I think (specifically) the superstar headwall and Ovation endwall are the steepest pitches... OL is just longer more continuous pitch. I'd carve OL in softies in groomed nice snow, but not chalk - also, not as tight of a radius that I'd like.

I saw a guy - once - popping tight hip to hip SL turns, speed perfectly controlled, down that superstar headwall in chalk, and that's what actually made me try hardbooting! I can lay one or two big S's down it, but that's not *really* carving, as I aspire to do it. Plus I'm too chicken to go that fast. :rolleyes:

Vin used to run "The Breakfast Club' with Dave Dutton from Out of Bounds. A bunch of carvers out on Sunday mornings for first chair until about 11:30. Typically they start at Bear and move across the hill to Bunny Buster. Soft boot carvers and Hardbooters mixed in.

Vin likely still does this. He also guns ovation... in fact he is proud to say there is not a pitch he has not been able to carve at Killington..... and to see Vin ride.. he gets Cat like Limbo low.... freaking glued to the snow-- very cool.

Rob- I'd never let anyone think of me as closed minded.... so I'm setting up a board.. So given size 27.0 1998 Salomon Malmutes and Union Force DLX bindings...I am 5'10" - 174 lbs, with 32 inch inseam... What board, stance width, and binding angles and offset would you recommend.

Still debating whether to teach for the mountain as opposed to being in the race dept.. (they offered me a position today) I actually tried to ride sorta crappy in front of the testers so they wouldn't bug me too much- but they saw a few carves they weren't supposed to see and offered me the job about 1/3 of the way into the test..argh.... but then again.. I'll have to ride Ginger Bread man as a instructor clone... (there was only a single Snowboard coordinator that made Ginger Bread man look smooth in mixed crud)

So I'd like to try your advice. I've got a Never Summer Board to ride..I'll measure the waist width.

I have gotten feedback that gingerbread man heelside carves are much harder (As I have found in the past) but if you can solve this.. I'm open to any suggestions. I wanna carve plate binding fast on steeps.

I can guarantee you that they wouldn't want me teaching a forward low aggressive edging riding style for steeps. They want something that can be achieved by a 80 year old 300 pounder as well as by a 5 year old that had his parents lie about his age to get into the program.

So what's my riding prescription? I'm also bowlegged enough to hold a grapefruit between my knees with my feet touching.

________

[Donek]

I don't have any video to prove it but I think I can make a softy board hold a edge almost anywhere I could trench the race stick..

What happened to the video Gilmour took while we were carving softies at SES?

[John Gilmour]

I do have that video.. not much of it..But Sean- you were ripping a nice carve. I'll email it to you to post up.

Funny thing working for Aspen Ski co the first thing they asked was for me to turn down my stance angles and get off that '05 Rossignol Judge.

You'know snowboarding should be snowboarding (Alpine, Freeride, splitail powderboards, directionals, asyms, downhill guns,) ... not just twin tips. How else is anyone potential buyer of gear going to be exposed to the great variety of stuff we have?

Like should skateboards only be twin tip park boards? What about longboards, downhill, slalom TS, GS, SGS, flatland freestyle, old school freestyle, pig skates, 8 wheelers, 6 wheelers, mini boards...etc etc...

Like I probably think it would be okay to teach skiing using Randonee gear, freestyle ballet skis, downhill and GS skis, ...perhaps to draw the line at using cross country gear and ski jumping gear to teach downhill. But most snowboard movements are translatable from one board to the next.

So today I was with someone who was used to skiing on older skis using an older technique. Super sidecut skis have completely replaced older sidecut skis in rental departments. And here for the pure sake of uniformity we had a person who could not rent what they wanted...their sport had changed- and they could not even find a non super sidecut ski to buy. The way they enjoyed the sport was gone.

Skateboarding is different. You can buy an old school deck- old school wheels and still have the old school groove. Most decent skateboard shops have a mix of longboards and kickflipper decks. But now through mandates by ski resorts and corporate ski shops.. you aren't seeing much if any variety in snowboards.

________

M130 Engine

[BlueB]

Funny thing working for Aspen Ski co the first thing they asked was for me to turn down my stance angles and get off that '05 Rossignol Judge.

Ha, surprise, surprise? It's just the current state of the industry.

Search up the tread "Hardbooting instructor in trouble" to see my pains... No need reviving it in this tread, but short brief goes like this:

- After a full year of teaching on hard gear (am board, low angles), we had supervisng staff change-over, I got ordered to switch to softies.

- 45/30 angles with 3 strap bindings on 3800 were just too much of the shock for the system.

- 30/20 angles still no good - no lessons assigned to me - I got told that we should all strive for "duck".

- 21/6 just bearly does it. They still cringe a bit on directional 3800 and 3-traps. Changed 3-straps for switch step-ins recently...

If you felt like responding to this, please do it in that other tread, so we don't polute this tech discussion on carving more then necessary.

[Donek]

So today I was with someone who was used to skiing on older skis using an older technique. Super sidecut skis have completely replaced older sidecut skis in rental departments. And here for the pure sake of uniformity we had a person who could not rent what they wanted...their sport had changed- and they could not even find a non super sidecut ski to buy. The way they enjoyed the sport was gone.

It's funny how the industry is moving towards gear designed to be the easiest to ski, sometimes with significant detriment to the existing customers and the more skilled athlete. At SIA this year every board in Lib/Gnu's booth had reverse camber with wavy sidecut. A system that allows someone who has never been on a board to simply tilt it on edge and have it turn for them. The stability at higher speeds running flat will be non existent. The amazing thing is that Lib/Gnu isn't producing anything but entry level boards now. This banana technology was actually the hottest selling product last season in the FS market.

The ski industry is not one that thrives on diversity. Look at how long it took them accept snowboarding. Once they get it in their head "this is the way to do it", they never look back.

In the future you can send guys like your skier student to companies like myself or Wagner Custom. Custom shaped skis don't come cheap, but I've duplicated straight skis in the past. I'm actually duplicating a Checker Pig from the 80's right now for a customer.