Surf Quebec Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hi, It's snowing a lot today and I'll be flirting with the dark side tonight : trying a soft boot setup for the first time ! I'm 5'6 and 162 pounds (usually ride Sims Burner 162 with Deeluxe700) Any advices on what size/type of board/boot to rent ? Please do not advice on buying an AM board, I can't afford it right now, maybe next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 My advice... DON'T DO IT!! Stay home and drink Laurentide instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 I do not think Laurentide is being sold anymore, it's more Molson Dry or Labatt Bleue ... I still have to see the dark side of the force ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Don't try to ride it like an alpine board. Don't try to face the nose. If you rotate, don't over do it. Don't forget, a board with softboots has much less edgehold. Don't use too high angles, softboot bindings don't have side support like hardboots do. I personally like around 24/15 angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 My advice... DON'T DO IT!! Stay home and drink Laurentide instead. Agree with Dave I'd get a freeride board and just slap your hardboots on them. I cannot ride softies anymore, hate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paragonUE Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 my advice, use slightly higher angles than you see on other peoples set ups, and remember its all in the hips, carving on a softboot setup is actually quite easy, it just takes a bit more force to dig the edge in, try to swivel your hips so it feels like the top of your hip is going to touch the bottom of your rib cage as you turn and good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 If you ride NE ice style.. The transfer to softies is nearly direct. Make sure you "Gilmour Bias" your toe and heel bindings towards the edges. Front heel to the heel edge as far as you can go without booting or "binding out" where the heel cup hits. Now the rear toe...move that again with "Gilmour Bias" over the toe side edge.. and let it extend just a tiny bit because the front of the board should make a channel for your boot toe anyhow. Rotate both highbacks. Make sure there is not slop inside the boot rotationally... Ride with high stance angles ... even 40-48 front and 35+ rear is ok get lower than normal- pressure the edge first with direct downforce..then after..with the highback if needed- do not just pressure the highback or it will be painful after a while. On toeside drive the rear knee away from your body towards the toe side edge laterally- Get lower and hold on..Boot grabs are ok for both heel and toe turns .. You may have to do this over 30mph because you asking the boards flex pattern to do something it was not designed to do. Your stance width can be nearly the same as for Alpine- or you can add about an inch. Use a 3 degree sidebevel and have the tuner really blend it way back from the tip so the nose does not catch and flap- the flex pattern in a soft boot board is so soft so you can't make it too sharp up front or you will pearl. Toeside work your back knee 40% with front knee to set the edge..once set- stack yourself atop it to create more downforce. ..ie don't extend. Laying out toesides at high speed is not a good idea because your boots are not supportive enough (sprain)... instead stack over the edge. Put an extra cushion layer under your insoles to help the ball of your rear foot deal with the extra pressure. Work the edge for grip in between the binding area... the nose is pretty much worthless on a freeride deck... just good for dealing with POW. The tail is nearly as worthless as the nose except on some boardercross decks. Buy a narrow freeride deck so you can pressure the edges. Anyhow..that's how I do it...most people might think I'm riding an alpine deck from a distance... I have no trouble holding an edge at high speed with this technique..even when riding a 2005 Rossignol Judge 159 split tail powderboard. I had to ride that first day of SES. Not many people noticed though. You can body smear turns Euro style too just get low set the edge and smoothly extend AFTER you are hooked in the carve. ________ Sexy girls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 DEMO, don't RENT. Go to a high end shop and get yourself a nice 155-58 and the best boots and bindings they'll let you have. Stock rental gear will have you back on your alpine gear in no time as it usually rides like ****. Do what you have to do, including borrowing from friends who ride good gear, or renting an instructors set up during a lesson while the instructor rides the crap rental. Please hear me on this. Ride with high stance angles ... even 40-48 front and 35+ rear is ok.Please don't. Maybe this is why John feel like freeride boards have no nose and tail support? (If you could hear my tone, it would be respectful, with not a bit of smartassedness to it) Lower angles will allow the board to ride as designed, not like a weaker alpine board. Soft boots are designed to apply soft pressure tip to tail through their soft lateral design, Edge to edge, you'll be more powerful with your feet perpendicular to the edge, using the foot in it's most natural and supported position for accepting and applying edge pressure. I do like the offset tech (Gilmour Bias? Uuhhh...) but agree that binding out on heelsides is a problem. I hard-mounted my highbacks with the strap mounts and completely removed the heel loop from my C14's , purchased on ebay, because there was enough material to allow this. Low angles and no overhang. Try this: About 20 - 30 degrees on the front. I have since lowered my front foot angle after many years of riding a higher angle. When I ride bindingless, I found my front foot backing off to a point where it naturally located itself in a position that would bias pressure control edge to edge, but with enough forward angle to still have my toes involved in tip to tail pressure control. Higher and I would be pressuring the nose and tail too much when foot steering, exposing the softer than normal flex of this type of board. Lower would result in good edge to edge pressure but very little tip to tail pressure control as I'd be on the side of my foot. Back foot? I do ride a bit duck. -3. This allows a very low position (try squatting with your back foot at 35... Now try it at something a bit negative). It also allows you to apply a ton of pressure with what John suggested by rotating your back knee out and away from your front as you go through the toe turn , while shifting pressure to the toe of your back foot. Admittedly, heelside posture can become an issue if you try to turn in a freecarve style, angulating your hips too much, heelside or toeside, (especially heelside) with these angles. The alpine technique favours edge angle over pressure control simply because in that forward-rotated body position you can tip it over that much. Since you can't edge (angle) as much heelside as toeside in this lower angle configuration, you have to rely on pressure between the feet and solid posture to turn. Edge (angle) less and pressure more effectively by staying more in alignment with your bindings, especially towards the last 3rd of the turn, in the hips and advancing the board under your mass with your core, legs and feet. Front foot to start, both feet through the apex and back foot to complete. The more forward the stance, the more mechanically similar the physicality of your posture will be. Low angles require 2 completely different techniques from one side to the other. Get into it. It is true that these boards do not carve as well as alpine boards, so don't try to make a alpine board out of a freeride deck. Flatten your angles, carve less hard and enjoy the advantages that will open up to you in the style the equipment was intended for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I had fun last night trying a soft setup for the first time , I was at a small resort, so not much choice for renting gear. I 've ride a freestyle board. From what I've read on bomber, I can imagine what it is to ride an all mountain board. I'll start bugeting for an all mountain board for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Freeride boards are great in powder (if you get the right shape), great in trees, easy to ride through bumps, and stable at high speeds. Very fun to ride. They will carve decent too. That is why I have both a softboot and hardboot setup. They each have their place. If budget will allow, it is definitely worth getting both setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 DEMO, don't RENT. Go to a high end shop and get yourself a nice 155-58 and the best boots and bindings they'll let you have. Stock rental gear will have you back on your alpine gear in no time as it usually rides like ****. Do what you have to do, including borrowing from friends who ride good gear, or renting an instructors set up during a lesson while the instructor rides the crap rental. Please hear me on this.Ride with high stance angles ... even 40-48 front and 35+ rear is ok.Please don't. Maybe this is why John feel like freeride boards have no nose and tail support? (If you could hear my tone, it would be respectful, with not a bit of smartassedness to it) Lower angles will allow the board to ride as designed, not like a weaker alpine board. Soft boots are designed to apply soft pressure tip to tail through their soft lateral design, Edge to edge, you'll be more powerful with your feet perpendicular to the edge, using the foot in it's most natural and supported position for accepting and applying edge pressure. I do like the offset tech (Gilmour Bias? Uuhhh...) but agree that binding out on heelsides is a problem. I hard-mounted my highbacks with the strap mounts and completely removed the heel loop from my C14's , purchased on ebay, because there was enough material to allow this. Low angles and no overhang. Try this: About 20 - 30 degrees on the front. I have since lowered my front foot angle after many years of riding a higher angle. When I ride bindingless, I found my front foot backing off to a point where it naturally located itself in a position that would bias pressure control edge to edge, but with enough forward angle to still have my toes involved in tip to tail pressure control. Higher and I would be pressuring the nose and tail too much when foot steering, exposing the softer than normal flex of this type of board. Lower would result in good edge to edge pressure but very little tip to tail pressure control as I'd be on the side of my foot. Back foot? I do ride a bit duck. -3. This allows a very low position (try squatting with your back foot at 35... Now try it at something a bit negative). It also allows you to apply a ton of pressure with what John suggested by rotating your back knee out and away from your front as you go through the toe turn , while shifting pressure to the toe of your back foot. Admittedly, heelside posture can become an issue if you try to turn in a freecarve style, angulating your hips too much, heelside or toeside, (especially heelside) with these angles. The alpine technique favours edge angle over pressure control simply because in that forward-rotated body position you can tip it over that much. Since you can't edge (angle) as much heelside as toeside in this lower angle configuration, you have to rely on pressure between the feet and solid posture to turn. Edge (angle) less and pressure more effectively by staying more in alignment with your bindings, especially towards the last 3rd of the turn, in the hips and advancing the board under your mass with your core, legs and feet. Front foot to start, both feet through the apex and back foot to complete. The more forward the stance, the more mechanically similar the physicality of your posture will be. Low angles require 2 completely different techniques from one side to the other. Get into it. It is true that these boards do not carve as well as alpine boards, so don't try to make a alpine board out of a freeride deck. Flatten your angles, carve less hard and enjoy the advantages that will open up to you in the style the equipment was intended for. I like riding Rob's way for wide, stiff, longer boards or the board rides me... Everyone should try what works for them.. My riding style responds well to high stance angles on freeride boards... believe me... I'm no great athlete..(I probably can't leg press more than 200lbs- and I have had more surgery than the $6 Million dollar man + I'm OLD like 44 years Old with long grey hair) yet I ride in complete control fast by just making sure the gear isn't set up to work against me. If you want to ride terrain parks.. don't even bother with my stance angles. If you are riding powder and on groom.. you might like what I do..and it translates well to the New England ice style (low, square, forward, aggro style) of hard boot carving. you just need to be lower than in alpine and pop your edge angle up aggressively. Vin of out of bounds rides the same way... we sorta banged out the concepts together one year when I was living in VT. i just find that I really don't miss my alpine board much on green and blue trails when I do this binding set up. I just wish it didn't dump so much speed on a power carve. Also if you are on a really stiff freeride board..my stance angles are not the way to go..... but then again.. if you ride powder...don't you want the nose to stay on top of the snow and absorb shock? Nose Flexy is good..and if you aren't riding powder..shouldn't you be on an alpine board blasting arcs at super high speed? My stance angles also won't work on a cheap freeride board with a crap (flex and suddenly hit a brick wall) flex pattern. If the board chatters like hell- don't bother to try and make carve. Go directly to Ebay and start over. A slightly narrow for your boot size, more flexible directional freeride works best for the higher stance angles. IMHO because since the boots and bindings can not deliver tons of power.. you need the boards flexy softness to make the edge the correct shape for the turn at speed (too stiff and you can't bend it into he right shape- also it won't start to bend easily and fast at the beginning of a carve)... yes it does seem counter intuitive at first. So many guys on Bomber own tons of decks... seems like they have a board for each run...lol (Note...there is envy in my voice...) I like my boards to have some versatility and overlap. If I'm on my Madd 158 and I want to ride GS I can make it do it. If I'm on my Madd 170 and I want to ride slalom or Powder.. I can make it do it. If it is a day after a storm and I'm riding this tiny 2005 159 Rossignol Judge split tail flexy noodle (has tons of flex through and surprisingly Triax on a powder board)... I can make it work in powder (with speed).. trees cuz its small, and jump right out of the trees onto groom and land a carve in midair.. point it downhill...... get up to 20mph...and carve right off trail into the powder again.. So rarely do I feel Like I wish I brought another board. sometimes I wish the 159 rossignol judge was a 163 or bigger (bowls)... but that is about it. I don't mind that it is small because I would rather override the board than have it hard to override in the trees. For that reason alone I think that is why I can ALWAYS outcarve at speed far younger more athletic snowboarders with more days in softboots than me- while they ride on their stiffer longer directional freeriding boards and I am on a 159 floppy split tail Rossignol Judge. The snow does not care whether you are on a Stiff alpine or freeride or twin tip board or ski..it just wants to see an controlled flexed edge on the snow with edge angle. So anything you can do to control more of the edge effectively will result in a more controlled higher speed turn. So Rob.. for a wide heavy stiff longer Never Summer deck that is my neighbors house.. I will set it up with exactly your suggestion :) I know I'll have to ride that Aligned shoulder way with the boots... and that would be my terrain park set up.... and probably................................................................................. I shouldn't even load that gun. ha hah.. I'm 44. Thanks for giving both sides...no offense of any kind taken... after all.. isn't that what BBS's are for- showing all sides? ________ Gm High Value Engine History Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 +1 for the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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