John Bell Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 How much camber is a Prior 4x4 164 supposed to have? How much does it begin with new? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted January 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 The guy on the phone--who was very cool; he actually went downstairs and asked Chris Prior--told me they come out 1.2-1.4, so the 7-8 mm on my used '05-06 is normal, having reduced by about half. Background here (for those who are curious) is that the board I bought on eBay, listed as in "awesome" and "barely used" condition, just arrived with a scrape in the base (which the seller had said was only in the wax) and apparent epoxy repair (about 5 inches long) to the sidewall on the side of the nose--which was not mentioned at all. It also has the original owner's NAME, in addition to the specs, written on the topsheet. (He mentioned the specs, but not the name. Grrr.) Not sure what I'll do. I got a good deal on it ($345 plus shipping), but I'm pretty steamed that the seller basically lied about the condition--or exaggerated at best. And he had 100% feedback. I think I'm going to call him and see what he has to say before I leave a "neutral." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted January 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 What do you guys think? I mean, I did get it at what is now less than half price. OTOH, it's also well used (though not in BAD condition). But the guy left out a lot of information that I had specifically asked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 I'd send it back Sidewall epoxy = not "awesome" or "Barely used" condition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted January 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Here's the link, btw: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190190433064#description I'm definitely gonna give the guy call here in a bit. I'd like to think I'm wrong, but when I look at this sidewall, i see white, then four inches of translucent yellow with the white ramping down under it before it emerges on the other side of the 4-inch strip. Definitely a repair, right? I'm really surprised; the guy works for a major software company, so he probably makes lots o' money and isn't desperate to unload the board. Plus his e-mails were polite and articulate. Not sure what recourse I'll seek; I could ask him to repay me some of what I paid, but that sorta feels like blackmail. Sending it back would be a PITA, and he might refuse to send me the postage for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 send him a note, then if it doesn't work out use the ebay dispute feature. That seller sounds familiar - I think he sells a lot of hardboot gear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted January 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 His BOL name--he's only posted a few times--is muymal, and his real name is Michael Lim. I just talked to him on the phone; he said he knew nothing of the repair but asked that I send him photos. He said he's worried that Prior might have sent him a blemished board, rather than the custom he ordered, back in March '06. Seems odd to me that he would not have noticed this--pretty glaring in my view. The middle photo below is of the unrepaired side. In the top photo, my finger is covering up the left end of the repair, but on that end, it tapers into the white, unlike the right-hand end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 just arrived with a scrape in the base (which the seller had said was only in the wax) ... and apparent epoxy repair (about 5 inches long) to the sidewall on the side of the nose--which was not mentioned at all. It seems possible to me, that the seller may not have had a particularly technical understanding in terms of what he was saying in the auction. Since wax is supposed to be *absorbed* by the base, and not sit on top of it--I would have found the statement that there was a scratch in the wax somewhat curious, and assumed that he was somewhat of a noob who doesn't totally understand what he is talking about. I agree that the ommission of sidewall repair work is somewhat heinous, though towards the bottom of the auction (in the questions) he does seem to feign admission of it. It does such to have found out that the seller was not being totally transparent in his description. Nonetheless: I would take it out on the mountain and see how it treats you. Assuming that the sidewall repair really isn't covering up for a core-shot (I'm not sure how deep sidewalls go before you hit wood), you still got a great deal. Although the "scrape in the wax" comment seems to intimate a noob who doesn't understand how waxing is supposed to work, the use of the word "core-shot" in the auction suggests the seller is actually not a noob. I can totally understand being pissed, I would be, but I would probably still take the board out. My point: just because the seller didn't put a smile on your face, doesn't mean the board won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtanner Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Sidewall = repair I've done this once before with a board, the sidewall has popped out and was repaired with some clear epoxy. Check in with Prior on this one to get their opinion (complete with pics) When it happened to me, Bruce @ coiler took care of it (wasn't his board) and it was fine after that. -Gord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted January 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Queequeg--Thanks for the thorough analysis--and the encouragement. I would love to just take it out on the hill, but I don't want to jeopardize my chance at recourse via eBay. He did intimate there was a scratch on the base, but if you look again at the questions, he said nothing about the sidewalls at all. He's still claiming to me that he didn't notice this--on a board he supposedly bought new, in a custom size. How many people would not notice this after paying $715 for a new board and riding it 10-15 times, as he said? Gord--Thanks for the insight into the repair. Bruce is obviously beyond being a stand-up guy to repair a board by another maker. If the guy had only been up front about all this stuff, he probably still would've gotten a fair price for the board. OK, enough about this from me. Thanks again, guys. I'll make the best of it, however it ends up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muymal Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Since I am being called a liar I thought I would set the record straight. I was totally up front about my ebay listing and have always responded honestly to any and all replies. I think the positive feedback on my previous transactions, the majority of which were for alpine carving gear, attest to that. I stated that the board was purchased in March of '06 and that it was in "awesome condition". I still believe the board is in awesome condition for being almost two years old. The facts are these: - No repair work was made to the sidewall or to any part of the board. - Although the board was *not* defective and my listing stated that I wouldn't accept returns unless the product was defective, I went ahead and offered to refund the entire $375 the winning bidder paid for the board at a loss to myself for transaction fees and shipping. I didn't want to waste everyone's time by prolonging this thread but I felt I should at least get my say in here. I won't waste everyone's time further by responding back to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 While I can't be certain, this does not look like a repair to me. It looks like a slightly missaligned core. When assembling a board the core is typically a little bit bigger than the base. This allows a small amount of sidewall material to be trimmed off when the board is finished, leaving a clean looking sidewall finish. If the core is missaligned by as much as a couple millimeters (meaningless when it comes to performance), the core may not overhang the edge. The result is a few inches of sidewall covered with epoxy. While some manufacturers might call it a blem, others might consider it completely acceptable. I seriously doubt it will affect the performance or life of the board in slightest. Depending on the base scratch, it's likely that you can get the board ground and it will be as good as new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Here's the link, btw:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190190433064#description I'm definitely gonna give the guy call here in a bit. I'd like to think I'm wrong, but when I look at this sidewall, i see white, then four inches of translucent yellow with the white ramping down under it before it emerges on the other side of the 4-inch strip. Definitely a repair, right? I'm really surprised; the guy works for a major software company, so he probably makes lots o' money and isn't desperate to unload the board. Plus his e-mails were polite and articulate. Not sure what recourse I'll seek; I could ask him to repay me some of what I paid, but that sorta feels like blackmail. Sending it back would be a PITA, and he might refuse to send me the postage for doing so. John, I feel your pain - went thru that recently on a diffent product but similar complaint. I personally would pretend I am looking at the board for the very first time and ask myself is the board I see worth the $$$ I paid including the loss of $$ in shipping charges. If you beleive it is then ride it and forget the past, if you have any hesitation it is not worth the $$$ then send it back and look more for a Happy board.. it may be a PITA now but well worth the time to get what you want with a smile on your face. ( BTW - I'd send it back) Good luck - Also 4WD board is an awesome ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 My Prior metal 177 came from the factory with this same exact blem. I got mine on proform, so I didn't worry or complain about it one bit and the board rides awesome. I think if the board has relatively few days of riding on it, you got what you paid for and then some. That's a $783 board new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 you got what you paid for and then some. That's a $783 board new. And only $48 to ship to Continental US if ordered on line, Prior has a new 164 in stock listing out at $734. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I am sure there are ten or more of us who would take the board for that price. half my boards are cosmetic blems. theys cheap and they rides much good. Go ride it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Just now saw all the replies; thanks for the helpful responses. If Sean Martin says it's likely not a customer repair, then I believe him. He should know. (It is, however, a structural defect—epoxy where there should be wood or ABS.) But for me the main point is that whether it ultimately will affect the performance or not, I had a right to know the blemish/repair was there. I also had a right to know about the rust, the scratch in the base, and the fact that if I were to keep this board, I’d forever have some other guy’s name on it. Thus the seller should not have said it was in "awesome" and “barely ridden” condition. If he meant “decent for a 2-year-old board with a factory blemish," then that’s what he should have written. I'm not saying there's no way I'd have bid on the board--but I definitely would have bid way less. I've seen all-mountain boutique-maker boards (Priors, Doneks, Coilers, Madds) in this condition (i.e., well used with dings) for $300, shipping included, right here on BOL. And I could’ve bought a new Donek Incline for another $105. Also: Lim's claim here that he paid the shipping to me is erroneous. I paid $345 for the board plus $30 shipping, for a total of $375. But more than the money I overpaid, it's the feeling of having been misled that bothers me. This guy has indeed offered a refund, but he refuses pay the return shipping. I should not have to pay it, because the omissions in his ad were his fault--not mine. But I'm pursuing this through other avenues and will very likely prevail. As to the point that racing boards may often have cosmetic blems: I’ll take your word for that. But that amazes me, because when you buy other new high-end sports equipment (e.g., a racing bike), it doesn’t have noticeable cosmetic damage to it (e.g., a huge gouge in the paint). Still, I would note that this blem or user damage or whatever it is (since it is in the core of the board, via the sidewall), may in fact turn out to hurt the performance. I also note that this isn’t a racing board. But the greater point is that I had a right to know all of these blemishes before buying the board. If I sell you an item with a problem I consider to be minor, would you want me to keep that from you? Or would you want the right to decide yourself whether the problem is significant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaida Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I think blems that occur during manufacturing that don't negatively affect performance aren't a big deal when you consider these snowboards are handmade. If everyone expected a perfect product given how they're manufactured, it would lower the production yield and increase the price. If the original buyer didn't get a break on the blem, should you? The buck will have to stop somewhere if such a precedent begins, and ultimately, it'd go back to the manufacturer and lead to higher prices. As for names being printed on the board, that's not terribly uncommon. I believe Donek puts on every board, along with the specs, the name of the person for whom the board was built for. I'm not taking sides about the whole auction situation, but I believe your expectations may have been a bit high for the type of board you purchased. These aren't off-the-shelf mass produced boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 He should have told me about it. That's the point. Does the seller get to decide unilaterally whether something is relevant or not? I don't think so. And again, it's damage that Sean said is likely from a problem in manufacturing the core. The core is pretty important. Whether this problem affects the lifespan or the performance, only time will tell. But I would have preferred not to take the risk. And that decision is mine to make--not the seller's. And then there's the gouge and the rust. One was described inaccurately, the other not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Just an unrelated sidenote: when people said racing board, I think it's not the racing board you buy in a shop or direct from the manufacturer but a racing board built to spec for a sponsored racer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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