BadBrad Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 I've been frustrated with learning to carve on steeper terrain. I did a search and found this thread where someone had a similar problem, and he was even on the same trails. http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=14917&page=1 I also read the tech article about carving the steeps: http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/carving_the_steeps.cfm I was on the beginner/intermediate run and making some great carves. Nice S-shaped lines in the snow, completing my turns, and when I saw my shadow my form looked like it was pretty good. Then I went to the intermediate slope and went from carving hero to zero. I'd make a couple of turns, then accelerate so fast that I'd have to skid to get my speed under control. In analyzing myself, I figured that I need to do the following: 1. Get the board higher on edge with hips closer to the snow to make tighter turns and control speed. 2. Finish my turns so that I'm making complete 180* arcs. But these are much easier said than done. At higher speeds I should be able to flex the board more and make tighter turns, but the opposite was happening. The faster I went the bigger my arcs got. If I finished the turn I ran out of room to carve the next turn without throwing the board around. I'd get the board on edge and for some reason I was unable to tighten up the carve when going faster. I don't know if this was due to lack of leg strength or just fear or what. Even on the gentler slope, when I got going fast my arcs got a lot bigger. I tried lots of things. One thing I did was to reach across the board. On heelside I'd reach both hands across the heelside of the board, and on toeside I'd reach the forward hand to the outside of the front boot. This helped a little, but not a great deal. Another thing I tried was getting as low as possible, so that my thighs were actually pressing into my body. Again, this helped a little, but I pretty much ride like that anyway when I'm doing deep carves. Another thing I tried was flexing my ankles to put the board higher on edge. This helped more than anything else, but still wasn't enough. So, what drills can I do to help me make tight turns at faster speeds and on steeper terrain? In case it matters, the setup was a Prior 4WD 164, 9m scr, binding angles 54f/51r, 19.3" stance width, rear binding with a 7* cant/lift, front with just a tiny bit of toe lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Read the tech article here. There's more to it than just the 'cross' techniques but without these you will have a difficult time progressing. Being able to prepare early (read that as having the downhill edge of board set while still crossing the fall line) for the next turn ensures you have time to complete the turn. Oh yeah, there's one other thing too... read about it here. This helped most for me. Edit: I found this old stick-man diagram that I used years ago to illustrate the down hill edge set early. Notice the stick-man's body is falling down the hill in the 'begin turn' stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 ErikJ breakin' the law.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 I understand what you are saying about quickly transitioning to the other edge, and I was trying to do that. The big problem was still that the radius of the turn got bigger at higher speeds. At some point the radius gets so big that you just have no room left -- you are at the edge of the run when you finish a turn, so even if you quickly cross to the other edge you are into the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 You may need to pressure the nose a little more to bend the board and get it to carver a tighter turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Brad, can you post any video? It sounds like you're going through the same thing I did, but never completely solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Sorry, no video. I went to the ski area alone, so there was nobody to take any video of me. I'll have to try the pressuring the nose more. I think I did try that once and felt like I was going to hook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 I'm working my way through this as well, ive managed a few turns and when i did get it right i was driving forward to initiate,starting "upside down" (something really hard to get used to, versus initiating sideways) and holding the tight arc all the way around until i was past perpendicular to the fall line again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 it's really hard , esp on fairly steep pitches. Gilmour is a master on a shorty madd at speed. Amazing to watch. PaulK has madd skills on steep stuff. hard to find steep stuff that's groomed, usually it's all bumped up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Jack, excellent example of what I was referring too. BadBrad, I think I didn't tell you enough. If you can complete the turn by running back up the fall line, you will start to feel a HUGE loss of speed and this brings you back into your comfort zone. Then, if you can get through the transition fast enough, you simply don't run out of room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 If you can complete the turn by running back up the fall line, you will start to feel a HUGE loss of speed and a huge loss of leg strength! fatigue sets in quickly on the steeps, or maybe im still just doing it wrong:o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Jack, excellent example of what I was referring too.BadBrad, I think I didn't tell you enough. If you can complete the turn by running back up the fall line, you will start to feel a HUGE loss of speed and this brings you back into your comfort zone. Then, if you can get through the transition fast enough, you simply don't run out of room. exactly. If you've ever ridden a carveboard on a steep hill you have really concentrate on controlling your speed.A regular skateboard is close to the feeling too.Try a wider hill that isn't crazy steep. Big wide turns and concentrate on finishing the turn heading up the hill a bit to scrub speed, sounds weird but it's really fun to push the envelope a bit, get out of your comfort zone.Even break the edge loose a little to get used to it.Prob bad advice here. I have no idea what I'm talking about....but it works for me. :rolleyes: we need a video here to demonstrate the technique Jacks pic is a good start I think it's easier to learn it with lower angles, too. Not cranked up to 55 degrees on an 18 cm wide board. at first,anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 BadBrad, I think I didn't tell you enough. If you can complete the turn by running back up the fall line, you will start to feel a HUGE loss of speed and this brings you back into your comfort zone. Then, if you can get through the transition fast enough, you simply don't run out of room. Ok, I will give this my best..... I am not good at verbalizing this. When you carve back "up" the hill, it not only scrubs speed quite fast (the steeper the faster), it allows you to begin that early transition "earlier" with less of that "I am falling off the hill feeling" because your board is facing up hill somewhat. You will see what I mean when you try it. This all happens very quickly when it is really steep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Pow, you're not doing it wrong, of course it takes leg strength but again, there's more to it. In my experience, holding a long, high speed arc takes more out of me than riding steeps. I attribute this to the forces necessary to hold that long turn. On steeper terrain my legs are being extended and retracted each turn, giving them time to relax. MUD, agreed. And that goes back to my 'grow some balls' link. I had a difficult time getting past the 'I'm falling' feeling. Once I did, it all came together nicely... most of the time, or some of the time, or occasionally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 I have the problem too. I think what it comes down to is having the balls to drive the board. On the moderate greens to easy blues it's easy to drive, cause what do you have to lose? If (and that's a big "if") you end up with some speed it's very easy to bail. But when you get on a steeper hill it's harder to bail, so you end up scared to drive it and the board ends up driving you. You just gotta learn to trust yourself and trust your equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Funny part of this, you have trained yourself to NEVER engage the down hill edge as you learned early on what a face plant was But in a true carve using the down hill edge is a must and may be one of the coolest feelings you can get on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmaron Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Brad; I'm working my way through this as well. Two thoughts: - my success is partly dependent on slope conditions, i.e., recent groom vs. end of the day hard-pack; and - when I'm pressuring the nose enough, both shins are fully engaged against the front of my boots. Oddly enough, I manage this process better on my heelside (probably because I've worked on that side so much). It's frustrating that I can't be more consistent with this, but it's so sweet when I do pull it off!! Hang in there - you'll get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 And that goes back to my 'grow some balls' link. I had a difficult time getting past the 'I'm falling' feeling. Once I did, it all came together nicely... most of the time, or some of the time, or occasionally! which link is that ? 'grow some balls' ? I like that sorry if it's an obvious link and I missed it, I wanna read that. don't be afraid to trust the centrifugal force, with enough momentum and aggro attitude it's amazing how you can mess with gravity http://www.metacafe.com/watch/243856/gravity_sucks/ and always remember.... F1+ F2 = – (mv2/r) ru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 A good mental trick I use to get that early transition is to always be thinking of your next turn; If you think too much about how you're finishing the turn that your in, especially at speed, it's too late to make the "early" transition. Let your body finish the job while you head leads the way:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Post #2 in this thread... second word 'here'. Or read about the sex change 'here'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 I have been thinking about this. The other thing is to reduce the time between carves..... Make sure you are not standing up too much between carves (this is ralative). Stay low and transition quickly, it will help keep the speed down. To do this you really NEED to look ahead, get caught too low and you will not have enough compression to make it over a bump, this sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 MUD, that's what the tech article about the different 'cross' techniques is about... reduction of time spent changing edges. Fast good, slow bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Post #2 in this thread... second word 'here'. Or read about the sex change 'here'. thanks alot ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 MUD, that's what the tech article about the different 'cross' techniques is about... reduction of time spent changing edges. Fast good, slow bad! Sure...... Steel my thunder!;) I suppose I could read them, then I wouldn't be repeating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 MUD: There is nothing more satisfying than pointing out the shortcomings of others! What is 'steel thunder"? You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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