Soft boots vs Hard in powder / soft groomed snow

[lonerider]

Well,

Do you experienced hardbooters switch back to soft boots in this kind of weather? Or should I try a more "surfy" style with my hardboots?

Yes, I always ride powder in my softboots - they are still my preferred setup for freestyle and powder.

Has anyone out there gotten 10 years of hard use(min 30 days per year) out of soft boots & straps, if so do you still like to use them??

I have ridden softboots and straps 30-40 days a year for the past ten years and not only do I like them... I still prefer them for general riding where I might be carving up some steeps for a while... then hit the park for some jumps and rails... and particularly for powder. I find them more versatile personally (no question that hardbooters have more power in their carves) Although that could be because at 140-145 lbs... even the softer boots are still kind of stiff for me. I suspect that many of the die-hards here tend to be bigger guys (over 200 lbs) and so they need the support hardboots give them... while obviously softboots don't given that type of support... I've found since I'm lighter, I need less support than they do I can support myself using my muscles instead of plastic.

Actually... another problem is despite what everyone here says... I have not found hardboots particularly comfortable. I have purchased 3 pairs of hardboots in three sizes (one size too big, one size too small) and have tried 3 heat molded liners and gone for 3 bootfitters and have had 3 sets of custom footbeds and I still find hardboots more uncomfortable (again I think it's because I'm not as big as everyone else). This season, I sold my extra snowboards to get brand new set of boots with foam liners... and I hope that will do the trick... else I might stop riding hardboots because they hurt my feet too much (can only got half a day in them).

I personally agree with D-Sub in his observation that most hardbooter don't "get" softboots. They go with a super stiff Catek FR2 and like Salomon Malamute or Burton Driver and then try to ride the board like a alpine setup... you are going to be disappointed if you are going to try that - they just have the wrong philosophy - kind of like Hawaii T-shirt day at the office - if you are a stiff and uptight... it doesn't matter what you are wearing.

I'm considering taking a backcountry course soon and I only have hard boots (Track 325's). I don't really want to take soft boots out for the day, as I haven't ridden softies since my third day of learning.

From what I'm hearing I should be okay in the hard boots in powder mode and the right board underfoot. Guess it just means that I'll have to use approach skis and carry the board rather than being able to rent a split.[/Quote]On can attach a intec toe/heel block to the Voile mounting plate... check ou www.splitboard.com for more info. I'm going with the new Spark Intuition binding an intrepid engineer made (following in Bomber's footsteps). Actually I just realized that Bomber makes a splitboard binding I think... although none of the splitboarders I've talked to seem to like it (too stiff).

[MUD]

Seems kinda...not sure the word Im looking for...counterintuitive that the people that do switch to soft setups look for the absolute stiffest setup they can find, mimicking a hardboot setup.

I don't, I ride a northwave freestyle boot that is really flexible and drake bindings that basically only holds your boot to the board.

Just because I ride hardboots does not mean when I get my softboots on I want a stiff setup. I like my softboots to be soft in the right places......

I also like my hardboot setup with some "flex".

Maybe I am the minority.:o

[lonerider]

I don't, I ride a northwave freestyle boot that is really flexible and drake bindings that basically only holds your boot to the board.

Just because I ride hardboots does not mean when I get my softboots on I want a stiff setup. I like my softboots to be soft in the right places......

I also like my hardboot setup with some "flex".

Maybe I am the minority.:o

I'm right here with ya... but the world is against us!

[Mark.Andersen]

I'm considering taking a backcountry course soon and I only have hard boots (Track 325's). I don't really want to take soft boots out for the day, as I haven't ridden softies since my third day of learning.

From what I'm hearing I should be okay in the hard boots in powder mode and the right board underfoot. Guess it just means that I'll have to use approach skis and carry the board rather than being able to rent a split.

Comments?

Hi Allee, I peeked at your profile and it says that you have a set of F2 Carve RS bindings. The great thing about those bindings and the Voile split interface is that the hole patterns match up perfectly. You can pull the toe and heel blocks/bails off the F2s and mount them right to the Voile slider tracks. You may need to fiddle with the mounting screws, but its very easy to do. The more challenging part is getting the board-mode bindings angles high enough. On my Voile split I can get up to about 39*f and 30*r before serious modifications would be requried to go higher.

Here's a picture that is probably worth 1000 words. The aluminum thing is the Voile slider track. While the toe/heel piece shown is actually from a pair of Head INTECs, the idea and hole pattern is the same as the F2s. Enjoy!

[Allee]

Ooh!

I'll have to talk to the instructor about taking apart one of their rental boards, but as far as I know they're Prior splits with the Voile system so that should work great!

Good to know. Thanks much Mark!

[paragonUE]

With limited cover, i ride my softboot rock board setup at the beginning and end of the season. In powder, however, I'm still hardbooting but on a powder specific board (a big beefy Pogo Longboard 175). I used to use softboots on it but now i just dont like the slop you get with softies.

hey, you dont have to get slop with soffties, look at espi, hes got it down pat

[Jon Dahl]

I also like my hardboot setup with some "flex".

Maybe I am the minority.:o

No, I too like a little movement in my boot/binding interface, so I use bails exclusively now. I may try a pair of softboots again, but they will need to be comfy on my feet, not something I've achieved yet. And I did start carving in softboots, after switching back to them from my SB boots. I was then able to take those beginner steps back to the hardboots to progress along the road to better carving. It will probably take custom footbeds, rear foot cant/lift, and a stiffer boot to get there, though.

[Rob Stevens]

Use no bindings.

[Mark.Andersen]

I'll have to talk to the instructor about taking apart one of their rental boards, but as far as I know they're Prior splits with the Voile system so that should work great!

My pleasure. Don't wait until the last minute though as you may need to monkey with the screw lengths. I think I remember using 20mm M6 pan head screws, but I cant be sure. Basically you need a low profile head (so the bindings can adjust) but they can't be too long or they will protrude through the bottom of the aluminum slider and interfere with the split mounting system. Obviously too short is a problem as well... :D

[Jrobb]

I started hbing last season with boots and bindings only. Popped them on my A-Frame 170 that had the intended use of being my all purpose board. It is however too stiff to eat pow for breakfast in my soft boots (Pro800's and Salomon Dialogues). But once I put my Sazukas with the BTS on it and a pair of Snowpro FAST bindings, this thing woke up in the pow. Much more control and power. I don't have to lean back so much as power is transmitted instantly. I do ride lower angles on it...35R 40F or so. Switch, straight, and small jumps (baby steps here) are all fine.

This season I picked up and older Renntiger and should finally get out on that next week.

Anyway, having ridden softies for the 14yrs prior and having big feet(12's), I like the hb's ability to let me ride a narrower board and still use a modest angle with enough power hitting the edges. I routinely go from groom/scraped to pow on back to back runs and during runs so I like to just stick with what works best for me...Hb's.

J

[roscoe]

I'm definitely nothing near a pro at hardbooting, but i also prefer softies in powder (or crappy conditions) and for general riding

I find that in powder, my nose bends too much and i just go over the handlebars, so to say. when i correct for that and lean back and switch the angles up, its just not that comfortable on the legs. with softboots tho, it doesnt hurt nearly as much.

and for just general riding (this is probably b/c i've only been hardbooting for a year) I prefer softies, usually b/c im trying to keep up with friends who aren't taking their time carving down the mountain, but are going all over the place, blasting into the woods for a bit or doing a run with moguls ( ) or who knows what, so the softies just give me a lot more versatility

after a few good days of powder last year, i ended up buying a 4807 from blueb, hope to get a bunch of chances this year to try it out and see what its like, both with HB and SB

[Silver Bullet]

How peculiar that this thread was started. I was about to pose the same question yesterday. I went to REI the day before last and picked up a pair of Burton Driver X's (their stiffest boot) and a binding set up to mount on a Burton Frontier big mountain board.

I took the board out Wednesday morning to float around in the POW and hated it. It seemed like my feet were taking incredible abuse from both the boots and the bindings.

Also, my size 11 feet were hanging way too far over the edges causing boot out and my joints were hurting. I suppose that a few tweaks to the binding could have fixed the discomfort, but the payback did not warrant the effort. I went back to the lodge and picked up my BTS Suzukas with conformable liners and had a fabulous time. It is funny how one's body adjusts. I had ridden soft boots for 20 years. I guess those were my tougher younger years.

Thank goodness for REI's 100% satisfaction guarranty! I returned the setup that evening. I am now in the market for a more floaty alpine board;-)

[bobdea]

well, the overhang is due to board width, get something wider.

with a 11 I ride boards between 26.5 and 27 cm wide

[lonerider]

I took the board out Wednesday morning to float around in the POW and hated it. It seemed like my feet were taking incredible abuse from both the boots and the bindings.

Also, my size 11 feet were hanging way too far over the edges causing boot out and my joints were hurting. I suppose that a few tweaks to the binding could have fixed the discomfort, but the payback did not warrant the effort.

Everything you just said is completely applicable to the softboot to hardboot transition as well. Your feet take a lot of abuse from the stiff board and bindings, your joints are aching because you are unuse to the high angles and you probably have the stance width, cant and lift adjusted wrong on the first go and need to tweak them... you are booting out because you didn't bother to get a wide enough board (notice how people are now moving away from 16-17cm boards to 19-20cm waisted boards) or set the angles properly...

If everyone were to quit hardbooting because of that, there would be no new more hardbooters (oh wait... that's almost true).

Really, it's all about how much money and effort you put into it... and frankly we are all getting too old and too lazy

[Jon Dahl]

Really, it's all about how much money and effort you put into it... and frankly we are all getting too old and too lazy

I'm not too old or lazy to throw more money at this! In fact, I may be in trouble right now for throwing more money this winter into it!! Your points on setup are well taken, it really makes a difference on hard or soft boots.

[scotts.Scheinman]

i throw my TD2's on my dupraz and go. so no softies

[P06781]

Td2's and Tankers rule!!!

Jim

[dshack]

I ride hardboots on everything; they're the only boots I've ever found that fit my feet and stop heel lift. However, today I had the most painful time of my life. I was on a 25-cm waist freeride board, a little set back, at about 45f/25r. The angles felt fine, and I had no problem planing the nose or turning, but I got horrible pain along the front left side of my front shin, and the right side of my back one. I'm in what I thought of as reasonably flexy hardboots (head stratos - not pro or ltd), but my guess is either I'm banging my shins against the side of the boots, or my heads aren't as flexy as I thought.

What angles do y'all ride in pow? Ever have shin problems?

[Bordy]

I don't, I ride a northwave freestyle boot that is really flexible and drake bindings that basically only holds your boot to the board.

Just because I ride hardboots does not mean when I get my softboots on I want a stiff setup. I like my softboots to be soft in the right places......

I also like my hardboot setup with some "flex".

Maybe I am the minority.:o

Burton Serrow boot and P1 binder for pow! For me. Some times Co2 binder, Ion boot. Or combo of the two.

[Jon Dahl]

However, today I had the most painful time of my life. I was on a 25-cm waist freeride board, a little set back, at about 45f/25r.

What angles do y'all ride in pow? Ever have shin problems?

I think that is a pretty big split on the angles. 5-10 degrees is about all I usually recommend, and cant/lift as needed on the rear foot as a starting point. Was your stance too wide, maybe? I've ridden completely flat on a Voile swallowtail, 35f/30r at about 19 inches and been fine. My personal rule of thumb is no pain standing in the final setup for 5-10 minutes of carpet surfing. That includes shin and ball of foot pain. And lots of board flexing while I do it.