Jack M Posted December 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2007 Jack, I didn't put the company logo in my signature as a badge of status... it was free advertising! However, I agree, it does act as a status badge. Nah, didn't think you did, just saying that is part of the resulting effect. I'm not sure if it actually lends credence to the bull**** that I post, but if it does, again, due diligence is in order. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 the hubristic, know-it-all vitriol that's sure to follow new ideas and viewpoints. I still don't see this. People here don't simply react just because someone's new. They react when someone's new and comes in slingin poo, with few exceptions. Politeness is still the key, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 You misunderstood me. I'm not talking about ideas. I'm talking about attitude. My point was I don't see many people get attacked for ideas. I see them get attacked for attitude, racers and freecarvers alike. In the Kessler thread, tex was a bit out of line at first, but then the OP went off, told him he had no life etc etc, and a few chimed in to back that sentiment. Reaction outweighed the trigger. Same thing with 2 recent incidents with me. Both times I posted lighthearted stuff with no intent and got snotty responses, followed by public and private attitude. Should experience be honored? Of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Simple manners are a dying art. Sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 AHH! And I agree 300 %.... Well-said Mr. Sub Those with experience may not always wear it on their shoulder, though. And THAT is a good point too, also made earlier. Why should they have to? It's a fine-line situation here because there can be world-class riders posting here, some of whom have pretty big egos and seem to think we're a bit beneath them. At the same time...like someone else said...are they supposed to come in and say "I am so and so. I've done this and this."? Still comes down to politeness on both sides! Simple! I just re-read the two recent classifieds where a spat arose (me) and I still don't think the reactions were necessary. I have taken all this to heart though and will personally be more careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 I think that you may have found a partial solution already.With a judicious helping of discretion and thoughtfulness, anyone should be able to recognize the merits of advice and other input posted by anonymous new (to Bomber) professionals, despite any (predictable) remonstrations of the forum-pond's 'Big fish'.I think that, thanks to the efforts of trailertrash and others, Professionals with useful experience will join Bomberonline, if only anonymously.With gentle tolerance, I suspect they will ignore the hubristic, know-it-all vitriol that's sure to follow new ideas and viewpoints.We are all, after all, (from newbies-to-pros), adherents of one wonderfully exhilarating sport- The key (online) is to stay open to new voices and to never forget that which brings us all together, here. Anyone can nitpick over differences.I love this sport. Good, sensible post. I think one thing that happens here which can cause problems is that we run the gamut age and / or maturity wise. I know that 25 years ago (I'm 45) I was nowhere near as sensible and measured in my reactions to people as I (usually ) am now. Nature of the beast. As far as racers not coming here - that hasn't exactly been my experience... over the past three years at least. I have bought equipment and/or received help from current or present coaches/team members or USSA/FIS racers Justin Reiter, Chris Carol, Aimee Newton, Matt Horne, Darren Ratcliffe, Vic Wild, Mark Ballard, Freddy Ansara, Tyler Jewell, Phil Berube...and of course Bordy, Phil F., Ink, Chuck (RIP), Trappy etc. - plus others I'm sure I wasn't even aware of. Most of the time these folks are too busy to spend a lot of time with chit-chat here, but they are definitely around. With few exceptions the dealings have been pleasant and fruitful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 An issue not yet addressed in this thread is the constant presumption, by Bomber's more territorial pros, that new posters to this board lack similar, let alone more, "real-world" experience. A quick gander at the recent posts to the "binding angle" thread serves excellent example. Ultimately, these presumptions, on the part of highly defensive regional pros (and ams), drive well-intended world class pros (intent on sharing knowledge) away. I know several professionals who agree..In fact, It was pointed out to me by two excellent pro coaches who walked away from this excellent board. I have never seen these assumptions. I (and others who spend alot of time here, from my observation) generally assume that if you come here, you already know something about boarding, or else you wouldn't be looking for the mecca of hardbooting on the web. Sure, some of us (myself included) can be jerks at times, particularly in the off season, but if you check your ego when you walk in and inderstand that this is the internet, not life, you will find that we are a generally friendly and knowledgable bunch who are as passionate about this sport as anyone can be. I have met quite a few people through this and other forums, and very few are anything like their online persona. -Matt PS - if you think this place is rude, come to tgr sometime ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 An issue not yet addressed in this thread is the constant presumption, by Bomber's more territorial pros, that new posters to this board lack similar, let alone more, "real-world" experience. A quick gander at the recent posts to the "binding angle" thread serves excellent example. Ultimately, these presumptions, on the part of highly defensive regional pros (and ams), drive well-intended world class pros (intent on sharing knowledge) away. I know several professionals who agree..In fact, It was pointed out to me by two excellent pro coaches who walked away from this excellent board. Help me understand something. Why would a seasoned pro rider or coach want/need to post anonymously? Wouldn't it be better to come out right off the bat and just say "I'm so and so, and I coach here, and have "X" experience? I'm asking this in good spirits. Maybe there is a reason I am not aware of. It just seems to me that it would avoid any of the kind of back and forth that you and Bordy and Phil have going in the binding angle thread right now. The pros that use their real names (except amybe Bordy - luv ya man) seem to have a lot less "issues" coming their way. An example of this effect would be my post in the binding angle thread - don't you think it would be natural for me to trust Phil's comments, knowing him personally and reading his comments here for three years plus, over a new poster using the name "williamblake"? I went out of my way to be diplomatic about it. And guess what - I tried front cant and rear flat on my GS stick yesterday...I like it at first use, but it may not suit my current board...need more testing. I went away from rear and front cant last year - to just small toe lift front and rear heel lift, with risers...got more control in the rough stuff, along with using a 21cm wide board and shallower angles than ever before (51f / 48r). Good stuff. PS - as stated elsewhere (I forget when and where) I am a world-ranked amateur skateboard slalom racer...and our big competition forum requires all posters to use their real name. Almost ALL the top pros in the world post there, and there is a LOT less BS...or if there IS BS, at least we all know who is who and it is all taken with a grain of salt. Check it out: http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 My contribution to the "Binding Angle" thread are receiving the "treatment", already. Funny that this is coming from people who are complaining about racers being mistreated here, about "us" having no respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipuppy Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 I don't know anything about snowboarding but I am a big lurker of the technical threads and my post count is 95% from the OT forum. In my lurking what I've noticed is tone is the fuel for flame wars, not content. ____________________ It makes sense (to use the room analogy) if a new person comes in and says something controversial to the flow of the conversation that it will be challenged right away. If it is challenged strictly by speaking about the content the conversation should be more more civil and "gentlemanly" whereas if it is challenged with tone (you don't know anything, who are you, that is just wrong, blah blah) of course it will escalate. It takes an incredibly powerful person to rise above that kind of attack and see that two things may have been occurring: 1) the people in the room felt belittled by the implication that they know less than the new person, and 2) want to know why they should listen to the new person. Unfortunately the way most people have been trained in conversation is to react instead of to look at the underlying needs. _____________________ The other thing I have noticed is that we do have two newbies in the forum 1) people like me (even though I've been here for years) who admit they don't know anything. This automatically changes the tone they use in forums because its not threatening to those who do know stuff and they are open to receiving that knowledge. 2) people who are experienced and are here for some reason whether it be to sell equipment, network, or make friends, whatever. In this forum these people are new and don't have the "cyber persona" that necessarily equates to the respect they receive in person. They don't need to post their CV to demonstrate their authority on the subject, but they also shouldn't use demeaning tones towards others (ever) or expect automatic respect without earning it within this online community. That being said, I have no clue who is a racer on here and who isn't but I also don't pay attention to advice online, I use it more to find people to ride with and then get their advice- maybe that is a luxury I have. ___________________ Idea on using names instead of aliases: This is a great idea if you want to remove the anonymity of the forum and turn it more into a discussion amongst people who can put faces behind the names. It might also drive away other people who are rightly paranoid about the internet. Idea on CV signatures: You could do this and then also put signatures for controversial posters saying something along the lines of: Please try to differentiate between the content of my words and the tone and respond only to the content. [That's not a serious suggestion but I think its funny] ___________________ Lesson: The problem is always the tone not the content. Solution: Learn to differentiate and avoid reacting to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedracerJVB Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Ski Puppy, that was one of the most articulate and intelligent things I have ever read. I hope that everyone who has contributed to this thread reads the above post more than once and takes it to heart because it sums up quite succinctly what seems to be occurring. I would like to think that we all want the same thing here; positive, constructive and productive discussions about the sport that we love or other topics. I think that we all have to take a moment and realize that a significant portion of this general forum is contributing to the hostile environment that presently exists, racers and freeriders alike, and it will take a concerted effort from all of us, myself included to be a little less reactive and a little more thoughtful about not only the things we say but also how we say them. Ski Puppy, thanks for the therapy session, I needed it. Tex, I apologize for jumping down your throat and for being a hypocrite. If I had an issue with your response to my Kessler I should have simply sent you an email and explained my point of view, instead I reacted and immediately went on the offensive. I was wrong and I am sorry.<O:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 awwwwwwww :D nice one, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Ski Puppy, that was one of the most articulate and intelligent things I have ever read. I hope that everyone who has contributed to this thread reads the above post more than once and takes it to heart because it sums up quite succinctly what seems to be occurring. I would like to think that we all want the same thing here; positive, constructive and productive discussions about the sport that we love or other topics. I think that we all have to take a moment and realize that a significant portion of this general forum is contributing to the hostile environment that presently exists, racers and freeriders alike, and it will take a concerted effort from all of us, myself included to be a little less reactive and a little more thoughtful about not only the things we say but also how we say them. Ski Puppy, thanks for the therapy session, I needed it.Tex, I apologize for jumping down your throat and for being a hypocrite. If I had an issue with your response to my Kessler I should have simply sent you an email and explained my point of view, instead I reacted and immediately went on the offensive. I was wrong and I am sorry.<O:p Right on bro - I've had to eat crow myself here more than once...it's not easy to do. Nice work Tonja! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 shiiiit. Eating crow is a cakewalk! (uh...does that mean I've had to do it too many times?) SpeedRacer...I have no idea who you are...mind tooting your own horn for a second? It's ok...it's a request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedracerJVB Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 No horn to toot here bro. I am just a guy who used to be someone, quit racing, missed racing and have been on the long hard journey back to the podium ever since... Joshua V Banks, toot toot. Gosh I was really enjoying being a member of the anynomius boys club. Oh well. What's up BOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Apology accepted, and seriously, I'll try to be nicer Edit: and don't let this drive you away. we need more experienced people here to contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 JVB, Tex, et al, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Skipuppy, That was beautifully written. I wish I could have said it that well and that balanced myself. Thank you, Buell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Here,as in life(read marriage),tone has everything to do with how information and opinions are perceived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Apology accepted, and seriously, I'll try to be nicer Edit: and don't let this drive you away. we need more experienced people here to contribute. ok, group hug. BIG thanks to Jack for his continued efforts to keep the gentlemen's club civil (and the cool chicks here as well) It's the nature of the forum beast, I think. BOL is a chill place to hang out, very little bad vibes here.AND we all LOVE snowboarding , which is nice. after catching up on this thread tho I couldn't help trying to remember the scene in that movie, what was it ? where the surfer guy is chatting with the other surfer guy and it gets all weepy and he says "Dood, you're talking to me like I'M a CHICK !" what was it ? Point Break ? then it finally came to me Shane Dorian and Matt George in "In God's Hands" ~friggin' classic ! I'm just saying....racers, hacks, geeks, freaks, whatever....just go ride and remember that BOL is the ONLY place online where alpine rules. There's other sites, but BOL is #1 IMHO. I look forward to meeting and riding with and hopefully ripping some turns with all the cool peeps I've met through BOL and the many I've yet to actually meet in person. :D aloha , now go ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipuppy Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Nice Sig. #71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Nice Sig. #71 As usual, it took a woman to tell us boys how to act with civility towards one another. :) I might change that "L" in my sig back to a "T". ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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