Thoughts on this as a starter board?

[John Bell]

Looking at an F2 Speedcross 161 for use with TD1s and Deeluxe Suzukas, on mostly groomed hardpack and ice. This will be the board I learn to carve on.

Good idea? Bad idea?

<TABLE width=300 border=2><TBODY><TR><TD>Sidecut (m)</TD><TD>Eff.edge (cm)</TD><TD>Tip/Tail width (mm)</TD><TD>Waist width (mm)</TD><TD>Setback (cm)</TD></TR><TR><TD>8.6</TD><TD>135.0</TD><TD>27.465</TD><TD>22.4</TD><TD>2.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Is this board too short? Keep in mind I'm on the East Coast, however.

Thanks for any thoughts!

(BTW, I'm also considering a used Donek Pilot and a used Generics 160.)

[MUD]

What are your dimensions?

[John Bell]

Just kidding. Good question.

I'm 5/9", 170 lbs., 30-in. inseam. Mondo 26.

[tex1230]

Go with the pilot.

[John Bell]

I hear Donek makes great stuff, but is it the Donek reputation or the specs that make you say I should go with the Pilot?

[GeoffV]

I hear Donek makes great stuff, but is it the Donek reputation or the specs that make you say I should go with the Pilot?

Both, the F2 Boarder cross would be a good starter board, but you'll grow out of it faster than you would on the Pilot. You'll get more carving use out of the Pilot, plus it is more of a specific carving board than the F2.

Sean has built the Pilot as a beginner carving board that will fit your profile. Make sure you tell Sean if you do order it that you are riding with TD1's he as special protectors for your board.

[zoom]

I rode the Pilot as a beginner, and wasn't happy with it. As a lighter rider, beginner and woman I was pretty much the ideal target market, too. I much preferred the All-Mountain boards for starting out. I rode both the Prior 4WD and Donek Axis and preferred both. I just got a Nidecker Escape - seems to be another fun board (I've only tried it one day). The width of the AM boards is helpful for many people, and they are still useful members of the quiver as you progress.

The characteristics of boards that were helpful for me in my first turns were width, softer flex and taper.

Buying a used top-of-the-line board will keep you happy for longer than a new entry-level board. Keep an eye on the For Sale thread. Something will come up.

Rebecca (Buell's girl - Buell says hi).

[John Bell]

Good to know. Sounds like you're saying that the Speedcross, like the Pilot, is too beginner-oriented to be useful to me later on.

Guess I'm just being impatient; at least one local resort opens this weekend, and there's a shot I may be able to scrape together the whole alpine setup by then.

Hi to Buell!

[zoom]

Hey John,

I totally understand your impatience/excitement. Stoke is good! You'll find your board. I can't predict what board you'll like - I can just give you my experience. If I had been heavier or more aggressive, I think I would have liked the Pilot less, not more, however.

I have no experience with the Speedcross. Have you done a search?

Also try the WTB forum. Sometimes people are stoked to get rid of gear without posting a For Sale thread.

Happy turns,

Rebecca

[John Bell]

Yup, I did a search, but the results were inconclusive--generally positive, however.

Just realized I may have misunderstood your advice: When you said that width was one of the things that made a difference, did you mean that greater or lesser width made learning easier?

[rwmaron]

I bought my Speedcross last year from another BOL member; I was looking for a board with a bit smaller SCR for our local hills - I've been very happy with mine (it's a 165). The only thing I would change is to make it 6 or 7 cm longer.......

I ride boards that vary in waist width from 215 to 245; in that range, at least, I don't think the width itself would make any one board easier to learn on than another.

My $.02.

Good Luck!

[zoom]

Yup, I did a search, but the results were inconclusive--generally positive, however.

Just realized I may have misunderstood your advice: When you said that width was one of the things that made a difference, did you mean that greater or lesser width made learning easier?

Yeah, search results and advice on BOL are both usually a mixed bag. As you hang around, you'll start to get a sense of who is roughly your size and/or gives advice that fits your learning and riding style.

More width = lower angles, which usually allows a better transition from softies. I find that the lower angles also allow me to flip into an emergency skid a little easier. I do more of those than I'd like to admit....

Of course, I have such small feet (22s) that I can set up my 18.2 wide board with angles in the upper 40s. I understand that angles under 45 aren't the best (a few reasons, including lack of lateral boot flex). I've stuck to that rule, but I've also seen a guy ripping at 30/15 on a freeride deck.

Buell found the AM board width (21.5) really comfortable to learn on at mondo 26. You might, too.

[NateW]

Those seem to me like pretty reasonable dimensions for a first carver. My feet are Mondo 27 and I have a 23cm-waisted board with 45/40 angles and it works fine (It was the board the got me started with proper alpine technique, and I still use it for early and late season riding).

The sidecut is small enough to carve nicely at low speeds, but you'll probably want something with a bigger sidecut radius fairly soon unless your mountain is really crowded.

But if the price is right, consider getting it, learning on it, and keeping it as a rock board. Next year, get something with a radius of 10m or more, and hang onto this one for the iffy days, so your other board doesn't get scratched up.

[John Bell]

Thanks, Nate. I think the F2 would probably suffice, but I may wait a bit longer just to see what comes up on the classfieds here.

[tex1230]

Sorry - I said get the pilot for 2 reasons:

1) Donek quality (in my experience) is miles ahead of F2, and if you have a problem, Donek is easy to talk to...F2 is a corporate black hole.

2)Getting a BX board to learn to carve seems to me like getting a Harley Softtail for a track day bike. Sure, you can get the idea, but it's not the right tool for the job.

[two_ravens]

As a lighter rider, beginner and woman I was pretty much the ideal target market, too. I much preferred the All-Mountain boards for starting out. I rode both the Prior 4WD and Donek Axis and preferred both. I just got a Nidecker Escape - seems to be another fun board (I've only tried it one day). The width of the AM boards is helpful for many people, and they are still useful members of the quiver as you progress.

The characteristics of boards that were helpful for me in my first turns were width, softer flex and taper.

Thread-jacking here - sorry John Bell! I am a lighter woman (125 lbs) beginning carver and just got a Nidecker Escape 159 - boots & bindings are in the mail, so haven't tried it yet. Just wondering how to figure out what is a good length board? I just kind of crossed my fingers and hoped the 159 would work, as the other specs seemed friendly....

[tufty]

I've ridden an 04/05 speedcross 165 (a friend's board) for a few days, it's a bloody good all-mountain board. No, it's not a balls-out carving machine like <insert alpine board of choice here>, but it can be carved easily, it withstands being carved hard (or at least, the one I tried did, I weigh 80 kilos or so) - certainly better than my Burton rock board, which folds the nose as soon as you start driving.

On the other hand, it's physical to ride hard, tight sidecut and wide board means you do have to work if you're pushing. The one I tried had an almost identical sidecut to my Blast 160SL, in comparison the Blast was significantly easier to push to the edge (but that may have something to do with stance and angles as well as board width, I didn't bugger about with the settings on the F2)

It handled crud, chop and moguls with relative ease (something the Hot doesn't like overly much at all), and wasn't out of its depth (or rather, buried, nose down, at full depth) in the fluff like a full-on raceboard tends to get without careful handling.

That said, I have no experience with the Donek or Generics boards, so a direct comparison is out, but I really liked the one I tried; hell, if I had the money it would be in with a shot for being my "not perfectly groomed days" board. As it is, I'm stuck with skis or my rock board for those days. Bah.

Simon

[newcarver]

Not an expierenced carver by any means, but the Generics Peak 60 that I bought worked out well for me the first time in HBs. Was very manuverable and easy to ride. Has enough nose so you can ride it in chop and powder and is stiff enough to carve with. I like the 21cm waist as it was not too quick edge to edge. I tried it out instead of my Rossi SL board. I think it was the better choice to start out on for me. I'm 5' 9" and weight around 165-170lbs with my gear. Can't wait to ride it again. If I get confident enough on it I might try out the Rossi for comparison.

[zoom]

Thread-jacking here - sorry John Bell! I am a lighter woman (125 lbs) beginning carver and just got a Nidecker Escape 159 - boots & bindings are in the mail, so haven't tried it yet. Just wondering how to figure out what is a good length board? I just kind of crossed my fingers and hoped the 159 would work, as the other specs seemed friendly....

Hey, Two Ravens!

I have a Nidecker Escape 158 - different year from yours, I think - and I love it! I just got it from Steph (badass East Coast woman rider). It's shorter than my other decks, and that's a very good thing. There are a ton of factors that go into making the right starter deck, including flex, width, sidecut and personal preference. The good thing about the length of the Nidecker is that it makes it "flickable" to quote Mike T. Transitions (from carve to carve and carve to butt-saving skid) will be a little easier.

In addition to changing boards this year, I switched from TD2s intecs to f2 Race Titanium standards, and the additional flex made all the difference in the world. Where I had to fight for a very inconsistent toeside carve last year, this year I can carve consistently, vary the size of my turns and really enjoy every arc. TD2s are extremely well made and beautiful bindings, but they're awfully stiff for us lightweights.

No matter what your gear is right now - go out and enjoy your first turns. Take every opportunity to try different gear, and you'll find what's right for you. Trust your instincts. Even as a beginner, you will know if something makes you more comfortable or helps you carve.

I'm not an expert, but I'd be delighted to offer whatever help and support I can. Feel free to PM me.

John - also sorry for the threadjack, but I can't pass up the opportunity for carver girl bonding!

[John Bell]

Thanks for the info, Simon. Sounds like it couldn't be a terrible choice.

Newcarver, glad to hear your Generics is working out! I've been eyeing a similar board on the Bay of Pigs (eBay) but am waiting to hear from the seller about whether the base is dried out or the edges rusty. (I think the boards are from around 2000 or so.) Evidently yours is in good shape.

Also considering an Oxygen Proton.

[chadx]

Looking at an F2 Speedcross 161 for use with TD1s and Deeluxe Suzukas, on mostly groomed hardpack and ice. This will be the board I learn to carve on.

John,

To clarify, when you say "this will be the board I learn to carve on", does that mean that you already snowboard? Or this will be your first snowboarding experience?

The reason I ask is that if it's your first snowboard, I'd be more inclined to say go ahead with the speedcross (though probably the 165). It will be good to learn the basics, can carve quite well considering what it is, and will remain useful even when you add a more carver oriented board to your quiver. And, as someone mentioned, it will end up a nice back-up board on those 'lack-of-snow' days. I still have a speedcross 165 and use it for upper mountain, steeps, bumpy stuff where I don't want to bring my Doneks and Coilers (all 180+).

If you already ride softies and still own such a board, then you'd probably want to hold out for a more carving oriented board. The all mountain boards like the Donek Axxess, Priors, and Coilers are hard to beat and do come up in the want ads fairly often.

You'll probably end up with more than one board anyway, so why not grab a speedcross to get you into or through the season then grab another board at the end of the season when they tend to be cheaper. You can get a deal, still get a few runs in on it this season, then have it ready for next season. I tend to by my boards near the end of the season because you can find almost new boards with a few days on them for quite a discount. That way you can afford more board than you would have otherwise.

[John Bell]

Chad--Good point! I meant that this will be my first alpine board. I've been snowboarding since 1998, off and on.

I might just spring for the Speedcross. Guess I'm dithering between that and the Generics 160 and the Oxygen Proton 160 being sold here on BOL by someone named Mark Ressler. What you say about holding out for a Coiler or Donek makes sense, though.

[MUD]

Hey John,

What is your current ride????? Could you stick plates on it for a while just to get the feel and in the meantime save up for or just keep an eye out for a more permanent carving board?????

Just an idea.

[Joe D]

The width of the AM boards is helpful for many people, and they are still useful members of the quiver as you progress.

The characteristics of boards that were helpful for me in my first turns were width, softer flex and taper.

You might also look at Prior's ATV deck.

[xxguitarist]

At 155#, 5'11'' +/- and mondo 28 feet, I started on (and am currently riding) a speedcross 154. My setups relatively soft overall- sb124 & snowpro races. I run 48/45 degrees.

I find it to carve pretty well, my local hill is TINY.. I learned last year & plan to hit the mountains some this year, we'll see how much too turny it is for real speeds & I'll pick something up in the off season to fill that void, probably.

The price was the main factor for me- something like $220 new, the boots and bindings were also inexpensive for me. If you know you like carving, it'd be worth getting a better setup, but I've found this to be quite servicable for learning, and has justified some better equipment in time.