new Virus board

[Istvan]

Tramp, I think Ladia referred to the Swoard price as of now.... (right Ladia? You called Swoard an 'elongated overpriced Wild Duck Knifer')

See http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3334. It is EUR 650 + tax + shipping.

I agree it is not cheap today in USD terms being well above USD 1000 including shipping and tax (can't even calculate the exact price , I guess Nils can help you)

But this would not be considered expensive withint the EU. Far not....

Cheers

[fivat]

This thread is just a SPAM about Rolex replicas! :)

Anyway we are all used to see good Swiss products being copied!

When will the excellent Kessler boards be copied too?

Fortunately, like the watches, what is inside do all the difference.

Ethics / etiquette:

Besides, it's not about what a manufacturer makes, it's about what the market buys.

You can buy what you want and Rolex replicas if you want. :) As well as buying illegal DVD copies, downloading MP3 illegally, etc. It’s just bad manners and bad ethics (bad etiquette). Making copies of the Swoard outline and taking the same model name is a “Chinese” method of making “news” boards. Again, it’s bad etiquette (and illegal by the way). Fortunately most riders here understand this and are not dishonest (special thanks for their support!). And they prefer the original Swoard. ;) If you have the opportunity to test one Swoard this winter, please try generation 3 and not generation 1 with incorrect size or flex for 1-2 runs only.

History:

Frank is correct. He was building and selling EC style boards for a number of years before Swoard approached him to make their boards.

Not true at all. Or maybe he can prove it?

Pictures from 2001 tell a lot about history and truth:

http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/photos01.html

Look at the prototypes on the pictures. :)

There are even older pictures with previous prototypes from 1997 there: http://club-ski.web.cern.ch/club-ski/snowboard/Photos/patrice.html#1997

Moreover, the excellent Carver’s almanach (www.alpinecarving.com) is a good book of history.

There are also many witnesses in the Bomber forum since day one (like Fin, Jack Michaud, yyzcanuck, Scott Firestone, etc.).

As shown on the 1997 and 2001 pictures, we had already developed before 2001 a prototype of what was going to become the Swoard. We had to develop our own model because at this time we could find on the market only narrow alpine boards (example: Virus width 15 cm) or not designed for the riding technique we were developing (laid turns armpit to armpit AND linked). Then people have asked us if we could make this board available to the public (since such type of wide boards didn’t exist anymore or had bad performances!). Fortunately Jacques Rilliet had still many contacts in the industry because of his past as shaper. In 2002 we could finally produce the first Swoards resulting from a long development on snow started in 1995.

Note that these pictures had provoked many reactions on the Bomber Forum in early 2001: some members didn’t believe that it was possible to get up after such laid turns (armpit touching the snow), and to link them… Then appeared the videos. The boards and the technique had been named “extremecarving” by us (that’s why we have www.extremecarving.com): this word was criticized at start because of the “extreme” term, what I understand because it’s used a lot in the media. But full laid turns have the maximal inclination, what is extreme in this sense.

Factories:

All brands (even Burton) use sometimes other factories from other brands to make their models. The Swoards made by Duret were not Duret boards. The Swoards made by Virus were not Virus boards. Indeed, we came with our own shaper, concepts and know-how. We also brought our own materials for some parts, like the cores, fiberglass and top sheets for example. Above all, making an excellent EC board requires many many tests and years of experience by experts of the discipline on the snow…

I wish to everyone an excellent season! With honesty and loyalty. Our small community doesn’t need untrue posts, bad manners and conflicts… Alpine snowboarding future is uncertain. Let’s stay a good family. I ask for respect from each other and good etiquette.

Ah, and if you travel with your board, watch out at the customs: they take and destroy the Rolex replicas! ;)

Patrice Fivat

[yyzcanuck]

Here's a pic of me from 2002 with a COILER 177AMX... the X stood for XTREME which was the model name from his 169AMX line built several years previous. It's a 23cm waist version of the 177AM that Bruce built for the 2001-2002 season. OK, so it's not a SWOARD but it's wide in the waist and I was influenced by Jacques, Patrice & Nils and asked Bruce to make this.

I know I had a point to make with this post... what the hell was it?! :(

[Bordy]

What about every board made with a waist width over 22 before?? Rossi, F2, Burton safari and M, Checker pig, Flite, Crazy Banana. Hooger Booger, Sims, Hot, etc.

I am not going to discuss why it is the swoard crew thinks they invented the wide board and Eurocarving?? When both have been around since dayone???? At one point they claimed to be the first riders to link toe and heel side eurocarves.

[Guest Jamar]

I am not going to discuss why it is the swoard crew thinks they invented the wide board and Eurocarving?? When both have been around since dayone???? At one point they claimed to be the first riders to link toe and heel side eurocarves.

I was not around when this started, just came on board once the train got going, so a historian can correct me.

I think their point was not that they are the first to invent a wide board, but they are the first to bring back the wide board specifically designed for linking eurocarves and making linking eurocarves easier for the mass.

Also if you can point to prior videos or discussion about anyone linking eurocarve as a discipline, I would appreciate it. I'm open minded but it was not until I saw their videos that I said to myself 'wow' and wanted to do the same and got back into snowboarding (at the time, I was into shape skis -Elan SCX- for those who remember them, and linking tight carves trying to go lower).

[Pow]

i think the point thats being missed here is that Virus basically stole narrow boards from the Squal designers. I mean, seriously! those dirty thieves:AR15firin

And Bomber stole "expression session" from the surfing industry. My buddy won't even talk to alpine snowboarders because of it.

[Bordy]

I was not around when this started, just came on board once the train got going, so a historian can correct me.

I think their point was not that they are the first to invent a wide board, but they are the first to bring back the wide board specifically designed for linking eurocarves and making linking eurocarves easier for the mass.

Also if you can point to prior videos or discussion about anyone linking eurocarve as a discipline, I would appreciate it. I'm open minded but it was not until I saw their videos that I said to myself 'wow' and wanted to do the same and got back into snowboarding (at the time, I was into shape skis -Elan SCX- for those who remember them, and linking tight carves trying to go lower).

Do a search topic is old and played out,

Some of us don't need video we watched it happen.

[Gtanner]

Hate to say it, but I saw a few guys at Jay Peak in 1994-95 riding asym burton Alps linking lay-out carves down the run (if I remember correctly it was called "Jet").

This concept isn't new. Swoard may be the first ones to try to make a layout-carve specific board, but they can't take credit for the concept, nor the style... we have been "euro-carving" or "extermecarving" or whatever you wanna call it ever since alpine carving began.

-Gord

[Bordy]

Hate to say it, but I saw a few guys at Jay Peak in 1994-95 riding asym burton Alps linking lay-out carves down the run (if I remember correctly it was called "Jet").

This concept isn't new. Swoard may be the first ones to try to make a layout-carve specific board, but they can't take credit for the concept, nor the style... we have been "euro-carving" or "extermecarving" or whatever you wanna call it ever since alpine carving began.

-Gord

Yep New England has been home to sick Hardbooters since day one. The first day I rode hard boots I learned to Eurocarve toe side it was only a few days later we learned heelsides then how to link them up. Oh yea my first day in hardboots was in 87.....I was 15.

[Derf]

Euro-carving on a PJ in 1992. Quite similar to extreme carving.

[Guest Jamar]

Hate to say it, but I saw a few guys at Jay Peak in 1994-95 riding asym burton Alps linking lay-out carves down the run (if I remember correctly it was called "Jet").

This concept isn't new. Swoard may be the first ones to try to make a layout-carve specific board, but they can't take credit for the concept, nor the style... we have been "euro-carving" or "extermecarving" or whatever you wanna call it ever since alpine carving began.

-Gord

Thanks. I wish I knew/saw you guys then, I would have been on hardboots earlier, and maybe I would be better than what I am now. And you're right we're all beating a dead horse.

(http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=9303&page=1&pp=30)

On the other hand, I was looking for Rolex and up until Opus 1, I was only seeing Timex...:biggthumpCheers.

[Cyrus the virus]

I´m riding and building snowboards now since 84 and since 87 under the brand Virus. What I learned in that time in buisiness:

Only the one who is playing the ball, is tried to be tackled!

[alexgforce]

Unfortunately for all of us snowboarding is not a rocket science!! Any shape, any width and any flex distribution chances are: IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE. And that is why leggaly no patent issue in terms of snowboard shape could exist (I did check it with a patent consultant just for the sake of it).

In terms of riding technique again chances are: Some guy in some mountain, somewhere around the globe has been eurocarving and linking turns. The existence of the term "eurocarving" proves it.

What the extremecarving crew did and they trully deserve a lot of credit and respect is establish it as a riding technique and promoted it succesfully around the world bringing more people in.

I dont really care if the shape has been around or not, or who copied who. The important question we have to ask instead of arguing is: Did they helped the industry and alpine snowboarding?

[pogokoenig]

Did they helped the industry and alpine snowboarding?

They defintely have.

But what has this to do with the new Virus Model?

[Tramp]

But what has this to do with the new Virus Model?

and you don't think about it.

What for?

Buy Virus board and go to ride! :D and take a pleasure! :D

[Ladia]

And can I have some of that stuff you two are smoking? :rolleyes:

[Guest Jamar]

And can I have some of that stuff you two are smoking? :rolleyes:

You two? Who's smoking? I'm still just one and don't even own a Swoard!

Funny you don't criticize Virus or Nicdecker, but you poo poo Swoard, even though they are the ones who tried/are (respectively) building the Swoard and the magic lay up inside the board specifically for EC (nowhere do they say they are the best snowboard, they do say they are the best for EC, and from the videos, I've got yet to see better).

I tried the Swoard, I like it, too expensive for me and I don't have the level to fully appreciate it. However I do appreciate very much what they have done for hardbooting and for bringing me back into the sport and enjoying winter. I just a have a beef for people putting them down or copying them without giving them credit first (a la Virus, and that's why I first responded to this now too long a thread).

[yyzcanuck]

I'm just pissed that Frank stole my idea for flames on pant legs!!

[Bordy]

You two? Who's smoking? I'm still just one and don't even own a Swoard!

Funny you don't criticize Virus or Nicdecker, but you poo poo Swoard, even though they are the ones who tried/are (respectively) building the Swoard and the magic lay up inside the board specifically for EC (nowhere do they say they are the best snowboard, they do say they are the best for EC, and from the videos, I've got yet to see better).

I tried the Swoard, I like it, too expensive for me and I don't have the level to fully appreciate it. However I do appreciate very much what they have done for hardbooting and for bringing me back into the sport and enjoying winter. I just a have a beef for people putting them down or copying them without giving them credit first (a la Virus, and that's why I first responded to this now too long a thread).

I don't want to ruffle your feathers, I just want to make sure I get where you are coming from?

You say you don't have the ability to properly judge the ride of a board made to eurocarve on, and you make it sound like your only point of referance is via online research. Based on that you are sure the swoard folks are the best at eurocarving so there prodect must be also?

Then Cyrus the virus (Frank who owns and builds Virus snowboards) Chimes in personaly and says he stopped building Boards for eurocarving under the virus name becuase he was doing contract work for the swoard folk,( seems nice of him) Then once he stopped making swoards he started making wide boards for eurocarving again under the Virus Name which he has been making boards under for 20 years. Many north american board builders have been making wide boards before the swoard guys even started their company. Pro riders in the US had dismissed linking laid our turns as just a style of riding amoung many styles over a decade ago. And Shannon Mellhuse even made sure Rossi made wide enough boards for him to do so. (again well over a decade ago).

But becuase on the swoard website the swoard folks (who should be commended for taking one style of alpine riding and really pushing it) say they started Extreme Carving and have the videos to prove they can currently cover there gloves in plastic and slide on there frounts and backs.

(with style i should add) You think other companys that make wide boards are "copying" them.

Are you sure your just have not been educated enough in the snowboard world to understand the true history of the sport and its evalution vs. just repeating what your were spoon feed on the swoard site??

As I said give props to the swoard guys for pushing one aspect or carving to a mainstream level, thank them for bring awarness about the Euro carve to your riding.

But to "have a beef for people putting them down or copying them without giving them credit first (a la Virus, and that's why I first responded to this now too long a thread"

No one copied swoard, the shape has been around since dayone just becuase you didn't know about it doesn't mean you should have a beef?

When swoard say the invented some super cool stuff inside the board to make it possible for the first time etc. That called marketing, sounds like you bit, hook line and sinker. Good for the swoard guys

No one needs to give credit to swoard for inventing any thing to be copied, They did a great job promoting Eurocarving, that for sure, But that would be as silly as saying the X-games invented extreme sports.

I am sorry you have a beef with people putting them down but alot of us just don't like the way the prodect rides comparied to other similiar rides.

Some people like to Eurocarve on brands other then swoard, And if some one says the like prodect so and so over the swoard prodect you just got to let them have it.

When some one tells me they love how their swoard rides I beleave them.

When some one tells me Swoard invented Eurocarving and all others need to reconize. I know better.

Its great to see a bunch of prodect out there to Eurocarve on. I wonder why everytime this topic comes up the Swoard folks and fans are so upset? You think they would be stoked that the ridding style they have been pushing is becoming more mainstream, Instead it just seems like they are mad not everyone is riding their prodect to do it. Almost like they are mad they arn't selling more boards and making more money, Vs, being happy they are sharing the alpine snowboard stoke.....?????

I never See the other manufactures who make all types of shapes make the same type of marketing Claims?/

Prior.... the first board made for the US style of riding.

Coiler.... the first "superboard"

Donek... the first board to use Glue

Burton... the first to use edges...

Then attack others for using edges, or glue also?????? They must all be copying.........

Silly.

[Cyrus the virus]

I don't want to ruffle your feathers, I just want to make sure I get where you are coming from?

You say you don't have the ability to properly judge the ride of a board made to eurocarve on, and you make it sound like your only point of referance is via online research. Based on that you are sure the swoard folks are the best at eurocarving so there prodect must be also?

Then Cyrus the virus (Frank who owns and builds Virus snowboards) Chimes in personaly and says he stopped building Boards for eurocarving under the virus name becuase he was doing contract work for the swoard folk,( seems nice of him) Then once he stopped making swoards he started making wide boards for eurocarving again under the Virus Name which he has been making boards under for 20 years. Many north american board builders have been making wide boards before the swoard guys even started their company. Pro riders in the US had dismissed linking laid our turns as just a style of riding amoung many styles over a decade ago. And Shannon Mellhuse even made sure Rossi made wide enough boards for him to do so. (again well over a decade ago).

But becuase on the swoard website the swoard folks (who should be commended for taking one style of alpine riding and really pushing it) say they started Extreme Carving and have the videos to prove they can currently cover there gloves in plastic and slide on there frounts and backs.

(with style i should add) You think other companys that make wide boards are "copying" them.

Are you sure your just have not been educated enough in the snowboard world to understand the true history of the sport and its evalution vs. just repeating what your were spoon feed on the swoard site??

As I said give props to the swoard guys for pushing one aspect or carving to a mainstream level, thank them for bring awarness about the Euro carve to your riding.

But to "have a beef for people putting them down or copying them without giving them credit first (a la Virus, and that's why I first responded to this now too long a thread"

No one copied swoard, the shape has been around since dayone just becuase you didn't know about it doesn't mean you should have a beef?

When swoard say the invented some super cool stuff inside the board to make it possible for the first time etc. That called marketing, sounds like you bit, hook line and sinker. Good for the swoard guys

No one needs to give credit to swoard for inventing any thing to be copied, They did a great job promoting Eurocarving, that for sure, But that would be as silly as saying the X-games invented extreme sports.

I am sorry you have a beef with people putting them down but alot of us just don't like the way the prodect rides comparied to other similiar rides.

Some people like to Eurocarve on brands other then swoard, And if some one says the like prodect so and so over the swoard prodect you just got to let them have it.

When some one tells me they love how their swoard rides I beleave them.

When some one tells me Swoard invented Eurocarving and all others need to reconize. I know better.

Its great to see a bunch of prodect out there to Eurocarve on. I wonder why everytime this topic comes up the Swoard folks and fans are so upset? You think they would be stoked that the ridding style they have been pushing is becoming more mainstream, Instead it just seems like they are mad not everyone is riding their prodect to do it. Almost like they are mad they arn't selling more boards and making more money, Vs, being happy they are sharing the alpine snowboard stoke.....?????

I never See the other manufactures who make all types of shapes make the same type of marketing Claims?/

Prior.... the first board made for the US style of riding.

Coiler.... the first "superboard"

Donek... the first board to use Glue

Burton... the first to use edges...

Then attack others for using edges, or glue also?????? They must all be copying.........

Silly.

Yep, Bordy I agree, and definetly could not remember to have pissed on YYZ- Canucks pants!

[Bordy]

I thought Dave Pissed on your pants cuz he thought you were on FIRE!!!

Thats why Drinking with Germans and Canadains is just so much fun!!!

[yyzcanuck]

that feels better...

[Cyrus the virus]

that feels better...

You have to drink a little bit more because on the picture it looks like you missed the pants.

See you at SES for drinking and riding together! :lol:

[yyzcanuck]

That's the second side effect of old age... I can't remember what the first one is!!

[Newmax]

You Guys make me wishing even more to make it possible to come to this years SES for some drinking and Carving! I really have to consult my finance minister! .... "MUM!!" :D

<- Max, who lost his passwd and the Email of that time back in...