Did I choose the right board?

[BadBrad]

I'm probably too late asking this question, but I just recently learned of this forum after making a purchase, and I was wondering if I made the right choice.

I have been riding an older Burton Alp 157 (or 156?) and an Ultra Prime 157. I've gained too much weight in the last few years and weigh 160 at 5'8". I weighed about 140 when I bought the boards. I like them. The Alp makes nice tight turns at moderate speeds, which works well on the small hills I usually get to ride, and it's forgiving in the bumps and crud. The UP is nice for higher speeds and harder packed conditions. I use Burton Race Plates and Wind boots with about 60/57 stance angles and a narrow stance (about 17" width, which is what the boards were designed for). I often only get to ride 6-10 days a year, so I'm not a super skilled or stong or agressive rider, but I've been snowboarding in hard boots since the 80's and do okay.

Most of the people I go on ski trips with are skiers, and they go all over the mountain, not just on the intermediate groomers that I am able to carve well on, so I figured I'd get more of an all-mountain board that would carve well but also work in the bumps, powder, trees, etc. I still primarily enjoy carving, though, I just want to be able to comfortable ride all over the place with my skiing friends.

I did some research (but didn't know about this forum at the time) and ended up deciding on the Prior AWD. I also went a little longer than my usual and got a 164. The extra width will also mean that my binding angles will probably be more like 57/54 or 54/51, which I think will help maneuverability in the trees and bumps. This board also looks to be designed for wider stances, and I'll probably start with something between 18 and 19". I'll stay with the Burton Race Plates and boots

Was this a good choice for me, or is there another board or size of board that would suit my needs better? Does my setup look like a good starting point as far as angles and stance width?

[D-Sub]

length is fine. if anything you could have gone the next length up, but you made a good choice of board for workability, etc

Id say your stance sounds a little narrow. Try 19-20 in there? I ride 21 or so at 6'2"

there's a general starting point and I think its measure from the ground to you knee pivot point and use that as a reference (without shoes on obviously)

[BadBrad]

Thanks. I was thinking that since I'm used to a 17" stance I would go to about 18-19 and see how it feels. But I do have long legs for my height, and from the ground to my knee joint is a little over 20".

BB

[D.T.]

Welcome to BOL!

Id say your stance sounds a little narrow. Try 19-20 in there? I ride 21 or so at 6'2"

Granted stance is a personal preference, but I agree with D-Sub. I'm 5'9" and I ride a 19.75" stance.

The board length will be fine. You actually might find that you outgrow it in a few years if you push yourself. I started out with my boards in the upper 160's and now have gone way up. Now, my "short" board is a 177cm (and yes, I take it in the trees and bumps); my "long" board is a 190cm.

You are spot on about the binding angles. A lesser angle will greatly help you in the trees and bumps; there will be a noticeable difference in leverage. My preference is to ride as square of angles as I can without dragging my boots.

[BadBrad]

With that 19.75" stance do you use canting? Right now I use no cant, just a little front toe lift and rear heel lift, although I did used to use some rear cant several years ago.

[Steez]

Cant know for sure until you ride, get it? "Cant" know!

[Derf]

I'm 5'8" 170 lbs and I ride a 166. For me, this length is good for allround carving on the hills we have in Québec (narrow trails, varying height).

For the stance, it varies from person to person. When I rode flat, my stance was around 18.5", but with cant, it's 19¾".

[D.T.]

With that 19.75" stance do you use canting? Right now I use no cant, just a little front toe lift and rear heel lift, although I did used to use some rear cant several years ago.

I am running TD2's with essentially all lift. I have the base rotated one notch to provide inward cant on each foot. Now that I think about it, my stance width does vary based on the amount of lift that I run. The 19.75" stance is on my FC and GS decks. I run 6 deg toe lift and 3 deg heel lift on those boards; again with one notch worth of inward cant. My AM board is 3 deg front and rear. I will have to measure the stance on the AM.

[bobdea]

on the carver's almanac there is a formula for stance width, here it is Stance width / setback

The stance width is the center-to-center distance between the two bindings. In the US, stance width is often measured in inches, despite the fact that every other parameter of a snowboard is in metric. Stance is like binding angle - you don't determine it theoretically, but instead, you adjust it until it feels right. However, there are three common recommendations for a starting point for setting stance width:

Use your shoulder width

Use the distance from the floor to the middle of your kneecap

Take your pants inseam and multiply by (Phi × 3 / 8) = 0.607, which is taken from Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man.

For wider stances, more inner cant and lift on the front toe, plus more inner cant lift on the back heel is usually required so you won't put your legs under tension. For hardbooting, wider stances provide two main advantages:

A wider binding stance will provide more stability and balance, especially on ice, and will allow a larger range of movement so that you can shift your weight fore and aft with more control. You will have more control over the pressure that gets exerted at the nose and tail, which will benefit both entering and exiting turns.

Wider stances allow you to get low and compress, while keeping your balance.

On the other hand, a narrow stance will allow you to carve tighter turns, and transition from edge to edge a little quicker.

After you shift your weight forward to initiate a turn, your center of gravity should be over the apex of the sidecut. In order to achieve this geometry, the midpoint between the two bindings must be set back from the apex of the sidecut to compensate for the forward weight shift. The apex of the sidecut is the center of the effective edge, not the center of the board length. This setback is typically 2-4 cm. Board makers shift the two insert packs rearward by this amount, so that you can mount your bindings symmetric to the insert packs and get the right setback. Some manufacturers, like F2, specify on the topsheet pre-marked stance positions so that you know where to mount the bindings to achieve the recommended setback. If there are no pre-marked stance positions, mount your bindings symmetrical with respect to the hole pattern. However, binding setback has a large impact on carving performance, so it's something you should spend some extra time tweaking:

Incorrect binding setback can cause bad habits. If you have too much setback, you will find yourself breaking at the waist to get your weight forward. If you have too little setback, you will find your self riding the back of the board all the time.

You can decrease the setback (even a little forward of center) to increase edge engagement. It will be a little easier to initiate a turn, especially on ice, but you won't be able to hold an edge as well at the end of the turn, and the board will have no performance in powder. If your front shin is getting bruised, or your front leg muscles get sore quickly, it may be because you are putting too much effort into shifting your weight forward on the board, and decreasing the setback can help out.

You can increase the setback, and your edge hold at the end of the turn will increase, but you won't be able to attack the turn as much at the beginning. If the board is hooking too much at the front when entering a turn even after you detune the tip, you can try to increase the setback to compensate. Increasing the setback will increase the surface area of the board in front of the front binding, which improves performance when surfing in powder or riding in the trees.

The amount of setback you should use depends on the binding angle: very low binding angles will result is a smaller degree of fore/aft weight shift, so you need less.

The location of your center of gravity is determined by the setback and also the cant/lift settings, so you have to keep both in mind.

[Pow]

length is fine. if anything you could have gone the next length up, but you made a good choice of board for workability, etc

Id say your stance sounds a little narrow. Try 19-20 in there? I ride 21 or so at 6'2"

there's a general starting point and I think its measure from the ground to you knee pivot point and use that as a reference (without shoes on obviously)

+1 to that! same stats as you, buddy, and im feelin a little cramped on a 162. If anything you could go bigger:biggthump

[b0ardski]

good length for trees & bumps, but you'll want bigger for open pow & high speed carves:D

[Phil]

Where are you from?

[BadBrad]

If you're asking me, I'm from Maryland. Local ski areas are just small hills in Pennsylvania with maybe 800 ft. vertical. Not even fun on a weekend with the crowds, but if I can get a day off mid-week it's okay. I try to do a western ski trip each year, but don't always make it. I am signed up for a trip with the local ski club to Snowmass in Feb during the big carving week out there. However, we are adopting a child and it's looking like we might be bringing him home around that time, so I probably won't make the ski trip.

[Phil]

This you?

edit: Images deleted

[BadBrad]

Nope, not me.

[Phil]

There was a guy named Brad D. from MD that rides the same setup as you.

What a co-inkydink.

Anyway, he comes to MAC Tracks every year. MAC Tracks is a carving event that we have been holding at Ski Roundtop. This year it will be at Bear Creek on Fri. Feb. 8.

Hope you can make it.

[BadBrad]

That is quite a coincidence. I am Brad B. I also usually wear a blue coat and black pants like the guy in the photo, and I also ride goofy. I am an old dude, turned 46 today. I'm usually wearing a silver helmet, though.

I used to go to Roundtop fairly regularly, but I don't think I've been there in a couple of years. If I get a day off mid-week now, I am more likely to go to Whitetail unless their conditions suck.

I'll keep the MAC Tracks in mind.

Are there any good alpine carving instructors in our area?

[Phil]

I think that there is a good alpine instructor in our area, but my opinion is biased.;) Try the instructor search to get the full list. I taught at Ski Roundtop for ten years and had a pretty substantial hardboot clientele. My wife and I moved to Pottstown this summer and I have transfered to Bear Creek.

[boarderboy]

However, we are adopting a child and it's looking like we might be bringing him home around that time, so I probably won't make the ski trip.

Had that exact experience 10 years ago. Went to Aspen/Snowmass for 5 days courtesy of Warren Miller raffle win by my wife.

A month later we were in southern Siberia, seeing our son-to-be for the first time. Big glacial till cliff dropped off to a cobble beach with beautiful, deep-blue water. Snowmelt was running down the cliff, people were sunning in thongs and a few even swimming in Vladivostok waters that couldn't have been more than 45 F. Frickin awesome!

Son now a hell-raising surf/snow junky. You'll probably remember your child's first linked turns better than you own.

Mahalo and have fun!