BTS Users??

[Bobby Buggs]

I only have one on the back foot, after a day of riding my ankle and the connective tissue around it feels almost like I sprained it. I am using blue springs and coming from powder mode. I dont remember my ankle hurting like this in the past. Any comments.

[Helmut Karvlow]

Like you said 43 YOUR OLD. :D

[Bobby Buggs]

Naah thats not an age thing

[Guest sandarapark]

i got the exact opposite experience...it was vry easy to sprain my ankle without the bts (i'm using a pair of leemans)...i sprained my ankles a couple of times which kept me out from the slopes for days...felt like forever..

[Bobby Buggs]

I am not trying to blame the BTS just wondering if I need to adjust it differently. Its surely not a bolt on and go device the way I see it. Maybe I need to have more tension on the large spring?

[Paulk]

Buggs, just wondering if you changed up your binding angles/cants at the same time you started using the BTS.. I'm riding with the blue springs on both boots, top nut cranked down to keep the boot with minimum static forward lean, which also limits the maximum lean under load... My ankles also felt better after switching to BTS.

[Bobby Buggs]

Paul, thanks for responding. I have not moved my back foot just the front. I think you might be right, I might have to put a few more turns on that top spring to limit the forward flex just a bit more. I have been riding much more aggressively since the session, 4 days in a row really got me back in the groove. Plus riding with the Carve Fathers you kinda have to be on your game or look like a mugger

[RCrobar]

Hi Bobby

I don't have the BTS, but for a few years now I have been playing with my Northwave spring system. Before this I had a set of 325's that I used with the standard locked or powder mode mechanism, I even rode with the Lock and Block Raichle mechanism removed. I had a similar feeling in my lower calf/ankle when going from my 325's to the NW spring system.

After A LOT of messing around with my gear I found that the ankle/calf problem was related to an increase in the 'range of motion' offered by the spring system, basically I was able to bend my ankles too far too easily; causing sore calf/ankle. Even with the Raichles in powder mode there is a STOP point to the range of motion, if you remove the Lock and Block Raichle mechanism the ankle is able to bend even further. Perhaps, like me, your sore ankles is related to the ankles range of motion?

Before the BTS was created I bought a variety pack of flat wire springs, long, short, hard, soft, tight coils, really spaced coils, etc. Eventually I found a combination of springs that gave a progressive flex that also had a STOP point that worked for me. This stop point did not allow my ankles to bend too far if a really hard impact completely compressed the springs, from here the rock hard boot shell took the impact.

For me personally I liked the softer springs, but my ankle/calf muscles were really sore. Then I tried harder springs and pre-load, my ankles weren't sore any more, but I felt like I was handcuffed and couldn't move that way I wanted to (I too liked the powder mode). Eventually I ended up cutting and stacking a combination of a really hard spring and a medium spring. I also didn't like pre-load at all, so I leave about a 1cm space between the locking nut and the top of the spring. In addition I found the softest possible tongues that didn't seem to be affected by really cold weather. This seems to give me a powder mode feeling at first, but also pregessively gets to a much harded and locked feeling without giving me sore ankles.

Hope this helps.

Rob

[utahcarver]

I second that range of motiion....

RC nails it by stating the increased range of motion is the possible reason for your discomfort.

Also, I've noticed when the snow is 'crispy' and hard I can ride all day and not have leg aches. But, when the snow is softer, like today in afternoon slush conditions, I've already downed an Ibuprofen 800 and extra water to calm the calve muscles down and I hope that I don't have a restless night of Restless Carving Leg Syndrome (RCLS). BTS rocks and I would recommend it to all my patients who drink to excess.

I run blue springs on Raichle 413's and I plan to upgrade a pair of Raichle 123 shells to BTS, Thermoflex (Thanks, Michelle), and a top Booster strap.

Mark

[Bobby Buggs]

Hi Bobby

After A LOT of messing around with my gear I found that the ankle/calf problem was related to an increase in the 'range of motion' offered by the spring system, basically I was able to bend my ankles too far too easily; causing sore calf/ankle. Rob

Yes I think its from too much range of motion, who woulda thought. I hope tightening the top spring down will help solve this. I do like the flex but it may be just a bit to far

[skidad62]

I shifted over to BTS with blue springs last month - I immediately experienced more flex than I was used to & the range of motion was giving me serious pains in my thighs as well as calves - a new experience from non BTS in my Deeluxe Indy's... I swapped over to red springs (only swapped the long toeside springs & retained the blue heelside springs) and with a little bit of tweeking - the pain is gone. The red toeside springs have allowed me to maintain most of the range in the BTS - i don't have the top nut cranked too much at all.

[Bobby Buggs]

I shifted over to BTS with blue springs last month - I immediately experienced more flex than I was used to & the range of motion was giving me serious pains in my thighs

Now that you mention it My quad on that leg was killing for a week after the last time I rode. It squacked at me on Friday as well. It amazing how much can change just by adding more flexion.

[wvrocks]

I have similar pain in my back ankle. I used to ride with my front boot locked and the back foot completely unlocked (only choices I had on the 413). I got the BTS and ride blues on the front and a long yellow/short blue spring on the rear. I really like the way they control the flex of both boots but maybe I need to try a long blue or try to limit my forward flex some.

I will say that my ankle is not in great shape to begin with. I pulled a chunk of bone out of the maleolous last spring and had partial tears and pulls in a lot of the connective tissue. Its been very slow to heal and riding probably hasn't helped.

As a side note... I avoid basketball now.

[Jrobb]

Yes I think its from too much range of motion, who woulda thought. I hope tightening the top spring down will help solve this. I do like the flex but it may be just a bit to far

So far I've had a total of 4days in hb's and 3 of them with BTS. They day withou was nerve-racking...albeit the first day on plates but still had either locked or powder mode on Sazukas. Decided after that BTS as I liked the powder mode for walking and liftlining. 3more days on BTS in 4ft Pow, Soft 3day old pow, and yesterday spring ice turned to slush and they are exactly what I was expecting them to be.

I have blue all around, bottom nut locked as low as it will go, top nut down so about 8 threads are showing. This is good because I can moderately tighten the boots and ride in "soft mode" but like in the soft slush I tighten the top two and crank the booster up and stiffen things for added power. The key I found I could over flex one boot or the other if all my weight were to fall on that one boot be it front or back. But when I weighted each equally the flex drastically diminished. I try to ride even weight front to back to save the legs and keep things simple. When I feel too much flex, I know I've fallen out of my groove.

I'm 6'3" 200lbs btw.

J

[lonerider]

I have the yellow springs (I'm only 145 lbs), but I did tighten them down a bit to reduce the amount of flex slightly and to give the boot the same amount of forward lean I had with the 5-positive adjuster (I just used a permanent marker to mark the position before installing the BTS). I really like the increase range of motion as I felt very "trapped" but by the stock 5-lean adjuster.

Of course having more range of motion means all those ankle/calf muscles require more of a work to protect the ankle... especially if your only form of exercise was pre-BTS hardboot riding whre you ankle/calves are probably atrophied from lack of use. I remember running a marathon relay (my leg was only 8 miles, but over 2000 ft of elevation change) on a whim with friends and while I had lots of leg strength/endurance from snowboarding and ice hockey (averaged just under 7.5 min miles) my ankles/calves really bothering me the day after, the stiff boots/hockey skates had similarly left my ankle/calves relatively weakened compared to my quad/hamstrings.

[RCrobar]

Hey Lonerider

I think you make an interesting point regarding ankle/calves muscles and how they may 'atrophied from lack of use.'

This is not what I was trying to describe in my situation. When I describe a riders' range of motion, with the ankle, I imagined that each rider has a finite range that their ankle will bend. I would also assume that each individual has a similar, but different, finite range of motion. By this I mean there is a point where an individuals ankle can not bend any further regardless of barefeet, hockey skates, softboots, etc. When setting up my spring system I tried to determine how far my ankle could bend before I had a feeling of discomfort. By discomfort I mean ... bend any further and I'm going to injure my ankle/calf (not tired muscles).

I felt, and it sounds like Bobby did as well, that I was able to bend my ankle past it's natural range, which is finite, causing an injury. I agree that stronger ankles will help to resist a 'range of motion' injury. Dialing in a mechanical stop point that maximizes an individuals range of movement, but is WITHIN the ankles natural range of motion, made the pain go away for me and gave me a lot of confidence to charge harder into a turn ... without fear of pain or injury.

Regardless, I definitely could train more and be in better shape:)

Rob

[Bobby Buggs]

Lack of strength in my right ankle is a result of not getting all the function back from a l5 disc blow out. How did you set your ROM to be finite with the BTS

[RCrobar]

Hey Bob

Just to clarify ... I do not have the BTS, I have the NW spring system.

I created a stop point by finding the location where my ankles wanted to stop. From here I installed the springs so that length of the springs, when they are 100% completely compressed, stopped just before the point where I flet that my ankle could go no further. The rock hard boot shell and the completely compressed springs create a mechanical stop point.

To do this I spend A LOT of time cutting and stacking springs to find the right combination of spring length, spring resistance and progressive feel that felt right for my size, weight, ROM, etc.

Only on the hardest of toeside impacts, by weekend warrior standards, do the springs bottom out.

Rob

[skidad62]

Well for me I'm also trying to ensure I don't blow out my leg AGAIN... last year I ruptured my Gastrocnemius muscle (think of tearing your calf in 1/2) and tore my Achilles tendon... (gotta love Tae Kwon Do )

I've broken & torn a bunch of body parts over the years (including shattering my right thumb joint not once - but twice last year... heh heh heh - yep Tae Kwon Do again ) - but my gastro-c rupture & achilles tear was one of the worst to recover from for me...

With the red springs my BTS seem just right for me (205lbs) and I can push my Indy's with confidence.

[Dave*]

Has anyone had issues with poor quality control on their BTS out of the box.

Just got mine in mail today with mashed threads on main rod, and two tension nuts with the index dot very close to the center hole mashing those threads in , one probably destroying rod threads at factory assembly, and the second top tension nut so indented as to not allow threading fully on to the main rod.

Have had good luck with TD1s n TD2s but am not impressed so far with BTS build quality.

Have phoned and emailed but no response yet from Bomber.

Just venting, I guess that the risk of mailorder.

Dave*

[fin]

Dave,

We did receive both your voice mail and e-mail that both came in at 3:15pm today (Thursday). About 2+ hours ago. We try to get back to everyone with in 24 hours so hang tight, we'll get to you :o

Sorry to hear about the issues you are having with the BTS. One item however, is the "index" dot on the Nut is not for indexing but rather to add resistance to the threads of the Nut so they do not back off. The dent is designed to be that close to the threads for this reason.

As far as the issue with the stripped Main Rod that might have absolutely happened here during assembly. Hard for us to say with out seeing ourselves but it could happen. As much as we try to make sure everything goes out perfect, one can slip through the cracks.

I will respond to your e-mail directly with instructions on taking care of this.

[trikerdad]

I believe the "index" punches on the nuts are to make them into lock nuts, that's why they're close to the threads. As for the nuts destroying the threads on the rods, the nuts are aluminum and the rods stainless steel. As for the mashed threads on the main rod, I can't answer that.

Edit: Fin answered while I was writing this.

[Paulk]

Has anyone had issues with poor quality control on their BTS out of the box.

Just got mine in mail today with mashed threads on main rod, and two tension nuts with the index dot very close to the center hole mashing those threads in , one probably destroying rod threads at factory assembly, and the second top tension nut so indented as to not allow threading fully on to the main rod.

Have had good luck with TD1s n TD2s but am not impressed so far with BTS build quality.

Have phoned and emailed but no response yet from Bomber.

Just venting, I guess that the risk of mailorder.

Dave*

My .02 The "index dot" is intentionally close to the center threads to provide mechanical friction (thread distortion) when the nut is screwed onto the rod..think mechanical loctite. As far as the rod threads being damaged, this is also an intentional side effect. You need to use a wrench, the nuts should not screw onto the rod by hand. The intent is to prevent the BTS from losing adjustment while riding.

Go ahead and assemble it. If you damage the rod so bad that the threads are stripped, then I would say there is a problem, but my BTS were shipped the same way and it all worked out fine.

Of course this advice is not officially Bomber approved, so your results may vary. They don’t typically respond to phone or email for a few days though.

Edit: Fin is quick, me not so quik:)

[Michelle]

Has anyone had issues with poor quality control on their BTS out of the box.

Just got mine in mail today with mashed threads on main rod, and two tension nuts with the index dot very close to the center hole mashing those threads in , one probably destroying rod threads at factory assembly, and the second top tension nut so indented as to not allow threading fully on to the main rod.

Have had good luck with TD1s n TD2s but am not impressed so far with BTS build quality.

Have phoned and emailed but no response yet from Bomber.

Just venting, I guess that the risk of mailorder.

Dave*

Bomber stands behind all of our products. If you have a problem with something you received, we will definitely take care of it. I'm sure it was an oversight as we sent out hundreds of the BTS kits with no problems.

We try to take care of all issues with a response of some sort within 24 hours even though I am here by myself :). 2 hours was cutting it a bit close, so my apologies. We are now taking care of your issue via email and phone. If you have problems in the future please feel free to email to us.

[Dave*]

Offending BTS parts about to go to post office, will hang on to functioning unit and top mount of gibbled unit, should be able to fabricate something for the interim as likely 3-4 weeks before any resolution seen at my end . (see last nights email/s)

Dave*