Buell Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hey Zoltan, I think you have already mentioned the main things for riding in the trees. I think the main one is, as much as possible, visual contact. I just blew my knee, for the year, at the bottom of a wonderful powder tree run. Luckily, we were in visual contact, so someone could go for help quickly. I will admit though, that visual contact is often temporary in the trees. As you already mentioned, radios. We are planning to get radios for the trees for next year. Mike T has said that he and his wife will use them in the trees at Mt Bachelor and they work well. A whistle is certainly a good idea. We do not ride with a shovel as crucible suggested, but Rebecca managed to slide into a tree well the other day, luckily board first. She had to unbind one foot to climb out. Be careful. The snow is finally getting good (so I hear anyway). I think you will have a great trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needanswer Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Why don't avalanche happen in bounds or does it just happen rarely? I understand resorts - close off trails/blow off excess snow/groom, is that enough , what about between trails, un groomed areas, trees? has there been avalanche in inbounds area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 An avalanche killed someone in bounds at Park City, in the early 90's (not sure of exact year). There are many reasons why avalanches are kept in check in bounds. One is skier traffic, the ground layers of snow get compacted by skier weight and usually it adds strength to the snowpack. But the main reason is what the ski patrol does. By ski cutting trails and doing explosive work they set off the avalanches before the public does. This morning I heard bombs going off from Park City and The Canyons. It went on for most of the day. In the backcountry an avalanche is just sitting there waiting for something to trigger it, while inbound the ski patrol triggers them before they get out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Slides can happen in ski areas, though, they are fortunately rare these days. I have been caught in a shallow, new snow slide at Taos (yes, on skis) in the mid 90's that took me down the hill a bit. Fortunately, when it stopped, my head was above the snow. I am always aware that the snow can slide. Last year there was a large slide at Mammoth, inbounds. http://www.snowboard-mag.com/node/10973 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12359894/ Generally, most of the slopes inbounds get compacted by riders or cut and blasted by patrol. This will create a much different snow layer structure than found just out of bounds at the resort. Patrol does a great job keeping us safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleaman Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I have yet to see an inbounds slide but every year when we take our avalanche search refresher for the Ski Patrol, they tell us 2 people have died at our Mountain inbounds due to slides. I know personally of one patroller that was ski cutting and got buried in a semi forested area. (he got wrapped around one about a meter below the surface.). We drink Zambucca every year on the anniversary of that one. Ski areas like Fernie actually have slides that start out of bounds and come in to the ski runs burying people. Last year was especially bad for them. Phil, good posting there. I dont have much BC experience but I know better than to temp fate by being ignorant to the potential Hazards. I am kicking myself this year as there has been 2 avalanche courses put on and I couldnt make either one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 please be careful. This kid was from my high school. apparently he was foolishly skiing alone. I don't know why anyone would do that. What a tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 As I was posting the pics and warnings yesterday this happened. This is about a five minute or less hike from a chair lift. Skier was buried up to his eyeballs, but walked away unharmed. He was taken about 1300' downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Phil has nailed it! IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT RIDING ANY WHERE THAT IS NOT WITHEN THE RESORT YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIDING OUTSIDE THE RESORT...... I HAVE BEEN A MOUNTAINEER FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS AND YOU COULD NOT PAY ME ENOUGH TO GUIDE A GROUP IN UTAH RIGHT NOW!!!!! DO NOT GO BEYOND THE CANYONS GATES!!!! THIS IS THE REAL ****, THIS YEAR IS KILLING PEOPLE!!!! There is so much good terrain inbounds, that is controled that I am sure you will be plenty challanged..... If you cant find trees inbounds in Utah you would not be able to find the airport to get here they are that obvious every where. Please since I moved here some uneducated tourist dies yearly IF YOU DONT KNOW DON'T GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted February 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I've already said I'll be staying in bounds so could we maybe get back to the original question? Please? If anyone has more ideas on keeping in touch with your riding partner in the IN BOUNDS trees, please let me know. Or, you know, you can just post more pictures of avalanches and keep telling me to stay inside the gates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Yodel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Motorola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Philfel's most recent avalanche post of the buried skier yesterday is the same spot that the kid in Gleb's article died just one week ago! Lift served at Snowbasin, just out of bounds. Avalanche WARNING in effect. The stupidity just repeats itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 In all honesty, Zoltan did ask a legit question now and everybody is continuing to be pretty dickish. Anybody have any real advice? I would think that a pair of motorola radios would work pretty good, but that's comin from somebody who's never been on a mountain with a vert in the 4 digits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Moto FRS radios are good, but their signal can get caught due to terrain features. The best advice I can give you is to ride in the trees within sight of your partner, it takes some skill to do this type of "formation flying", but it really gives you the best chance at survival. Have fun with it dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 FRS radios with good external battery packs or extra batteries are a must. Having a plan to meet EVERY time you exit a tree run would be good, too. If your partner isn't behind you when you exit, how are you going to ascend to find him? Snowshoes? Bring a shovel, just in case. Beacons would let the ski patrol find you quicker, if they know you are using one. With a little practice you theoretically could find your partner fairly quick. Make a plan and stick with it, that is the best advice, and don't go somewhere you do not feel comfortable going even if you get pressure from your partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I feel you have already gotten your answer about inbounds riding. In bounds have a trail map, go in with a plan. Before you drop in make sure everyone knows what lift you will be ending up at. A whistle comes in handy. Radios tend to be a pain to dig out constantly while riding, cell coverage is uaually good enoungh if people get seperated. On a different note I don't feel like I'm being dickish at all by posting avy pics. You are stating that you are coming to Utah to ride in the "nearcountry". Well that is my back yard. I can look to my right as I type this and see one of the slides I posted. I was giving advice to someone who needs to be better educated about the current state of the snow pack. People are being caught in slides daily right now. You said you will stay in bounds this trip. To me that means you will go OB on future trips, so you don't take it serious, which means to me that you may be tempted to go OB while you are here. Gleb sorry about your friend, but the harsh truth is that he and his dad made a very selfish and stupid decision. They were warned by a ski patroller earlier that day about the current hazards, yet for some reason they ignored the advice and one of them ended up dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Another recent one. Please don't feel like I'm being an @ss. I'm just trying to show that it is the real deal when you duck the ropes. Even people with decades of snow study experience get killed at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I didn't personally know him or actually even knew of him, but its true. When you do what they did, they put many more people at risk than they had to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Pebu, dickish? Real advice? :smashfrea:smashfrea The tree riding question has been fairly well covered. Phil Fell needs to be thanked for putting the time and effort into demonstrating to the OP, just how dangerous it is to ride out of bounds. Especially, right now in Utah! There is a serious problem with the "trendiness" of the "nearcountry." Riders who think they will be safe because they are next to a ski resort. The lifts allow easy access for those who are unwilling to put in the time to learn the proper ways to ride BC. In Utah, you can watch visitors head off daily into conditions they do not understand that might kill them or someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 A big vote for the line of sight way. radios are nice, but if your partner bonks his head or goes into a tree well, they may not be able to get to the radio. Follow near to your partners tracks, or if your in front, stop occasionally and wait. Almost lost my buddy of 30 yrs. in a "near bounds" incident at baker, now I treat OB ropes and uncontrolled areas like kryptonite. Phil should be thanked for posting those pics, the danger of BC travel can't be overemphasized, IMO. You only get so many fun tokens in life, spend them wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 avalanche danger remains high today. But the tree inbound are thigh to waist deep, one of the best days we've had this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Got a noboard yet? You'd probably kill on it. Just had a day like the one you're describing, sledding at a closed resort here in Alberta... 1500 foot runs, full surf-style, completely off the rope. I was dizzy, being so pumped. I've been riding for 25 years and NEVER have I felt something so elevating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Check out this video. This was taken yesterday by UDOT. They do control work, in areas where avalanches threaten roads. The triggered one in little cottonwood canyon that buried the road. This one was in Provo Canyon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 It might suck ,but the rider who is even slightly more skilled than his or her tree riding friend owes it to said friend (or student) to ride behind them in deep conditions. It is simply not enough to stop once in awhile as an unconsious(or just pissed off and pride damaged enough)is not able (or unwilling) to answer a voice or radio call right away or at all.Now try hiking up 100 yards through 3 feet of fresh before your friend suffocates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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