Ultimate Soft Boot Bindings???

[brodster_57]

Here's the story:

I came across quite a few examples in the past, but I am no longer sure where to look besides Catek. I have a Palmer Crown and ride Super plates on it. Right now I have some Union bindings, but the base plate has cracked because it flexes over the plates too much. Also, the teeth on the highback have worn out and they are not bullet proof at high forward lean angles and someone who weighs 210 lbs.

Basically, I need a binding that will be compatible with the plates and be solid. I want one with a solid forward lean mechanism that will hold. I like responsive but tend to favor a binding that dampens well. I know these two can be a bit mutually exclusive, but I am willing to sacrifice a little response for great dampening.

I remember seeing a binding with a spring/shock device on the high back awhile back. Does anybody remember what these are called?

Thanks

[Gtanner]

I personally have a set if TechNine Pro models and they are so comfortable and sturdy (plus lifetime warranty). I can still carve hard and they are good with conveying the power directly to the board. BTW; I'm about 210-215 in weight.

I have also heard that the Nidecker bindings have some great dampening.

Good luck with your search.

Gord

[svr]

THe binding with the springs on the back may have been the phiokka mix:

http://www.phiokka.com/soft.html

The nidecker carbon 900's have a lot of dampening and are pretty responsive. I do not like the way the straps fit, but many people do. The high end spx bindings from salomon are good and some like the burton p1's, c60's and co2's (I like the light weight and response of the c60's and the co2's have are nice too, but have a little more flex). I am not sure how they will perform with the plates though. The rome targa's are a pretty responsive binding as well. I am looking for a light and responsive binding as well and have used all of the above bindings (minus the phiokka's) and catek's as well and they are all good, but none have met my exact expectations. Good luck and let us know what you find works best for you.

[felix]

It depends on the angles you wanna run them. Anything above 25° for the front foot I'ld go for the Head PX10 or a binding with lotta different holes for fixing the highback including the possibility to cant the highback.

Why?

Cause if you wanna run big angles on a soft setup I'ld advise both big forward highback lean as well as adjusting the highback level to the boards edge. In order to do so with having constant connection highback to boot you need to cant the highback laterally to be flush with the forward angle of your boots. Only binding where they actively thought about it upon my knowledge is the Head PX10 where the highback therefore consists of 2 pieces so you can easily angulate it. Otherwise with some bindings that have a lot of metal you might be able to drill additional holes to cant the highback, ideally however you want to cant the highback as well as the round loop at the end of which the name I've just forgotten.

Even better would be to have all this with a 3. strap for freecarving (I wouldn't use a 3. strap for freestyle or freeride though) and a highback which can be fixed into a position.

[zoltan]

I'd suggest finding some used Ride Flight series bindings, either the Tomcats or the Migs. They use a one piece aluminum baseplate, so they're nice and stiff and won't bend if part of the binding is hanging off the riser. I'd get one with the newer convertable toe strap on it - much more comfortable. Finally, since the base is non-adjustable, make sure you buy the right size for your boot.

[Guest azrcd5]

I have a pair of last years Rid Migs. As mentioned they are made of metal, the Mig has a carbon reinforced highback the Tomcat does not. They are great bindings and I cannot say enough how awesome the toe cap is. I have always flexed any binding (especially the Burtons) that have a plastic baseplate and so I say metal is the way to go.

On a side not I bought a pair of '06 Carbon 900's and they came with a defect in one heel strap where the threads are not tapped on on side of the hole and so you cannot attach it. The fix is a new heel strap, but Nidecker USA kept jerking me around saying they didn't know what I was telling them and what was wrong etc. So I just got pissed and bought the Ride's. Anyway they are unridden and supposed to be really good so if you are interested in buying them let me know. They have a much higher back than any other binding I have come across.

[zoltan]

Yup, the Mig is a little stiffer, though I liked the Tomcat's flex because it already such a still baseplate. The Flight ankle straps are a light weight, but not too stiff, and I ended up upgrading mine with the Ride Team ankle straps for $50. A well worth it upgrade in my opinion.

[Jack M]

Catek or Flow.

[Guest 2board]

I run last season's Ride Migs on a Palmer Honeycomb 161 with the PLS shock plates and they are fantastic.....responsive, light, very comfy and pretty bomb proof(before these I had a pair of RIDE SPI's that were 4years old and still going on the original hardware but couldn't use 'em once the board got stolen). The Catek's are ok, but are way to heavy in my opinion and I don't see why you need the canting in a soft boot. I would also avoid 3 strap bindings and the like..on my softies I like that the setup is soft enough for me to be able to flex my ankles, last think I would want to do is restrict it.

[EndUser]

Catek or Flow.

I bought (and returned) the Folow NXT-FR's, they're junk. Not in the same class. I just wrote a review of the Cateks (in the catek FR2 thread), if you are interested.

[Dr D]

If you can find them in your size a switch ntype boot with either ntype(no back) bindings or xtype (hiback) bindings. the ntype boots are very stiff and have a built in highback internal to the boot. it is adjuctable for forward lean on most models and also has a built in ankle ratchet strap and a booster strap at the top of the boot. I find them quite adequate and the rental version of the bindings comes with a riser plate that gives you a little more freedom with your angles. I ride mine on a wider board at 55/50 sometimes 60/55 with great results. I have also had good luck running a cant plate under the rear binding.

[dshack]

Your mileage may vary....laterally, I found the switch boots (N- and X-type) super-noodly. Toesides aren't great on them, either. The ankle strap comes over the boot much lower than on your average strap binding.

To run high angles on softies, you need something with lateral support, like the solomon spx5/spx55, a 3-strap, or the old burton boardercross Mission.

[Guest azrcd5]

The issue with Flow's is that you cannot rotate the high=back to be inline with the board edge. This is an issue for transferring your power to the board edge. This doesn't bother some people and they ride around it, so whatever, but putting the info out there for consideration, not for starting a debate.

[dshack]

I don't think I've ever found myself lacking heelside power in softboot bindings, even non-rotated ones. It's toeside where the problems with power transmission are.

[Guest azrcd5]

Like I said, whatever. But if you ride where you "stir the pot" with your front leg, it is ideal to have the high-back in line with the board edge so that as you push toward the nose of the board with the outside of your knee, it can help tweak the board. This can happen w/o the binding being inline, but it is more efficient and ideal and therefore theoretically necessary for optimal use of your body movements.

[lonerider]

The issue with Flow's is that you cannot rotate the high=back to be inline with the board edge. This is an issue for transferring your power to the board edge. This doesn't bother some people and they ride around it, so whatever, but putting the info out there for consideration, not for starting a debate.

Just FYI, the latest FLOWS do have rotatable highbacks (I think starting this year). As for DShack's toeside power issue - stiffer boots will lead to better toeside power transmission (hardboots work better!) so would a high ankle strap (or even a third strap binding), but now you are past that and in the warm... happy... fuzzy land of alpine snowboarding

[EndUser]

Just FYI, the latest FLOWS do have rotatable highbacks (I think starting this year). As for DShack's toeside power issue - stiffer boots will lead to better toeside power transmission (hardboots work better!) so would a high ankle strap (or even a third strap binding), but now you are past that and in the warm... happy... fuzzy land of alpine snowboarding

The latest Flows have an upper section that can rotate, but the hinge does not rotate, which doesn't seem as good.

[lonerider]

The latest Flows have an upper section that can rotate, but the hinge does not rotate, which doesn't seem as good.

Yea, probably not - just thought I should mention it.

[felix]

Be beware the problems of a 3 strap binding namely that you loose all lateral loosenes which is in my eyes a very big advantage for freeriding or freestyle and sometimes even carving (depending on your technique).

I only use a 3. strap on rare occassions (custom Proflex softboot binding with possibility to attach a 3 strap). Rather try to beef up your boot in other ways like by putting in a good tongue made out of plast material - Burton RAF inserts simply suck and don't stiffen up a boot at all IMO. Only Dee Luxe offered once great metal inserts for softboots that still fit their nerwer Spark boots.

I still wouldn't rotate the highback on any non F2 (when rotating the heel loop it automatically cants - though only around 15° rotation possible) or non Head PX (around 30° possible) binding because you can't cant the highback which means that at 30° the highback will either twist - or if it is a very rigid highback it will cut into your boot. I'm not sure about Cateks.

In my eyes most softboot bindings are just there for the bling bling factor but improvements for carving are non existent in the last 10 years. The bindings got better for freestyle perfomance but that was it. Heel Loops are now mostly out of plastik increasing overall boot lengt, same goes for capstraps that try to solve a problem that exists because people don't know how to close their bindings or ride a boot with non-existent forward lean with a highback that is strongly forwarded.

Highbacks are incorporating materials like carbon instead of being rigid like some old very thick plastic highbacks that don't twist at all. Instead they should just beef them up with titanal.

And the padding of the 2. strap sucks - why don't they use thermoflex material like on the old Proflex bindings that once molded gave better hold than any Flow.

[Dr D]

Your mileage may vary....laterally, I found the switch boots (N- and X-type) super-noodly. Toesides aren't great on them, either. The ankle strap comes over the boot much lower than on your average strap binding.

To run high angles on softies, you need something with lateral support, like the solomon spx5/spx55, a 3-strap, or the old burton boardercross Mission.

there is quite a variance in models for sure. the ones that have forward lean adjustment in the ankle strap mechanism and a high booster strap are the best. I have a set of world travelers that are working quite well for me currently. the lateral stiffness is bolstered significantly by a booster strap. I have used the "booster strap" with two layers of elastic on other boots with good success. Its worth a try with the boots you are currently using. Ask the crew who rode with me at big MTn last week if lateral flex was a problem! technique varies with this setup as well. I find that I am up and down with my body alot more than on hard boots. If I am driving my weight down into the board I am effecting the edge directly rather than through the tounge and sides of the boot.

[bobdea]

cateks, burton co2, c60, nidecker 800 or 900, the high end Ride bindings a whole bunch of other stuff are really good.

with softboot bindings these day you have some great options if you are willing to spend between 250 and 450, I apparently am the only person that HATES flows though, I think they blow for a few reasons.

[Jrobb]

In my eyes most softboot bindings are just there for the bling bling factor but improvements for carving are non existent in the last 10 years. The bindings got better for freestyle perfomance but that was it. Heel Loops are now mostly out of plastik increasing overall boot lengt, same goes for capstraps that try to solve a problem that exists because people don't know how to close their bindings or ride a boot with non-existent forward lean with a highback that is strongly forwarded.

Highbacks are incorporating materials like carbon instead of being rigid like some old very thick plastic highbacks that don't twist at all. .

Actually I'd say 80% of the bindings on the market have plastic bases (actually fiberglass reinforced...higher percentage of fibers go to top end models)and aluminum heel loop/heel hoop(Rome). 20% are all metal, and 10 % are all plastic(usually the low end bindigns). Most companies are now worried about making light weight gear as the freestyle market drive most of the business in the States here. There are some making locking highbacks that could possibly use a 3rd strap but that's more a remnant of a bygone era and I'd not trust it to hold a high speed toeside with a 195lb rider. I've had Nideckers for a while and like them aside from their weight they're great but noone(manufacturers) seems to get the hint that a higher placed ankle strap would solve a lot of bad technique in softbooting...it's just easier to attach the strap to the high back pivot screws and be done with it. I don't even feel the Catek bindings address this very well...I'm not going to drop 10K on mods to a Civic when I could just buy a GTO.:)

J

[lonerider]

cateks, burton co2, c60, nidecker 800 or 900, the high end Ride bindings a whole bunch of other stuff are really good.

with softboot bindings these day you have some great options if you are willing to spend between 250 and 450, I apparently am the only person that HATES flows though, I think they blow for a few reasons.

Ditto on what Bob said. I have ridden the Catek, Burton C60, Nidecker 800, and the Ride Flights and they are all excellent bindings - far better than what was available in the previous century (not saying that stuff was bad... but that there have been a lot of changes since then). I do agree that freestyle-oriented driving has been pushing the market.

The C60s are unnaturally light - I don't think I really need them to be that light - but they are pretty stiff too so that's good. I do like the capstraps though. They aren't just for jibbers or people who don't know how to tie their own shoelaces as Felix suggests... they work well for me and my gf because we both have small, narrow profiles boots that bigger toe-straps tend not to grab onto well.

[felix]

Well nothing against wisely used plastics. (I heard that on the Mount Everest excursions Stefan Gatts used boards and bindings together under 1.8kg - those boards were one use trash away directly afterwards however and fell into pieces while riding down - Marco Siffredi who didn't carry his own gear used heavier stuff of course).

My Proflex binders with 3. straps had very stiff Plastic base as well - so stiff that they ripped several capboards open - but high quality very hard plastic providing better dampening than metal.however the heelloop is made out of Steel (no soft alu but proper stuff at the right place) and the highback is metal with gummi coating. - Oh bummer the weight around 1600grams each and thats without the canting shims (still much better than my VIST racing plates for my skis)

But a heellop should be very thin so you achieve shorter length. Burton and Salomon heellops are awfull in that respect.

[lonerider]

But a heellop should be very thin so you achieve shorter length. Burton and Salomon heellops are awfull in that respect.

That I can agree with. The Nideckers are better as they have a short, higher angled heellop. The highbacks are made out of this heavy duty polycarbonate (aka plastic, but it not flimsy and has a rubberized coating feel to it).