How to go straight

[NateW]

Thanks. I always wondered how those park monkeys bomb straight down the hill on the tail of their boards (and can't stop for carvers but that's another thread).

Will try that and stay loose.

No base bevel, as I like the EC stuff and need all the edges I can get. :o

Bevel your base anyway! Seriously. You'll feel the difference when bombing straight - the board is much less twitchy / nervous - but you won't feel the difference when you're on edge. A few years ago I tried it on one board and like it so much I've had all of my others done ever since. One degree base bevel, one degree edge bevel, works great.

[Zone]

Here a pic of the Coiler camber from this am. It's on a flat section. Presumably the middle of the board would touch the snow if there is a rider on it.

I tried to weight the back the can't get it yet. Neutral seems better at this point.

[chadx]

Wow, your conditions must suck if your camber is higher than your snow. Listen, before calling my theories bunk, go out and try it with said high camber boards. When you see the track in the snow, let me know what it looks like. After you have proved me wrong, we'll talk.

Interesting. Please explain how an unweighted board that is NOT on edge and NOT flexed (putting the effective edge on the snow) could possible follow a sidecut radius? What about boards with variable sidecut?

Bad conditions? Put any board with good camber on a fresh groomer and tell me it's laying flat. (see pic posted above)

Pushing a board across a slope and it turning downhill is more a result of gravity. It might grab a bit of the edge, but definitely doesn't turn following the sidecut radius. Consider this. If you push the board with a medium shove, it will start to turn downhill with one size arc. If you shove the board really hard, the arc is going to be much larger. Neither arc will be the sidecut radius, unless it's by coincidence.

[carvedog]

Everyone is right. Four on the floor works. So does tail ride.

Tail ride is faster due to less contact on snow with ptex for less friction.

1 degree base and 1 degree edge is good.

1 degree basee and 2 degree edge is good on ice.

Hands back and flying with small delta wing in butt area formed by hands is good.

Speed wedge with hands in front to buffer the shock wave from speed of sound barrier is good too.

Straight is good, but turning is better.

[Guest Mark Jeangerard]

Find out what it feels like to be totally neutral on the board. While in a flat spot, get in a position that allows you to put even pressure on the balls and heels of both feet. In other words, 25% on front foot ball, 25% on front foot heel, 25% on rear foot ball, 25% on rear foot heel. I think it was Sickmove who called this "Four on the Floor".

(SNIP SOME STUFF - SCROLL UP TO SEE THE REST)

In reality, the board will seek the fall line and you will end up going through a 90 degree arc and going straight down the hill. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

So.... would this be a good way to do a static binding and boot setup? On the living room floor, four on the floor, relaxed, over the board, feeling for more pressure here or there?

[Phil]

Here a pic of the Coiler camber from this am. It's on a flat section. Presumably the middle of the board would touch the snow if there is a rider on it.

.

Thanks for the pic - pretty hard snow? In any case, I have done this with my F2 SL and my F2 RS. Both have quite a bit of camber, but there is plenty of edge (and therefore sidecut) still touching in all but the hardest conditions to illustrate my point. All of the sidecut does not have to be engaged in order for the board to follow the sidecut.

Either way, when you try this, you will see that the track left by the board is an arc that follows the sidecut and there will be a track from the flat board with a "carve" from the downhill edge and sidewall of whatever parts of the board are contacting. Like I tell my instructors - tracks don't lie.

You guys can call it gravity if you like, but like I said before, go out and try it, look at the track. If the track is something other than what I have told you about here, let me know.

[Phil]

So.... would this be a good way to do a static binding and boot setup? On the living room floor, four on the floor, relaxed, over the board, feeling for more pressure here or there?

Well, IMO, yes. I believe in that enough that I encourage my students to carpet surf a lot to find this neutral position and adjust their bindings accordingly (along with other drills that help). I find it especially helpful in hardboots where cant and lift come into play.

[NateW]

I had a 1-degree-base/1-degree-side bevel done on my F2 183 last week, and rode it for the first time yesterday. I'd forgotten just how much the base bevel improves the straight-line handling... With the unbeveled base, this board was awkward to ride straight, and tricky to make small skidding corrections at low speeds, and felt weird when transitioning fro edge to edge. Now it tracks straight with no worries. As a bonus, I now keep my arms a lot quieter between turns and when riding slow (e.g. when approaching the lift line).

So, I just had to repeat: if your base isn't beveled and you want more stability in a straight line, this is totally worth doing.

[Phil]

Consider this. If you push the board with a medium shove, it will start to turn downhill with one size arc. If you shove the board really hard, the arc is going to be much larger. Neither arc will be the sidecut radius, unless it's by coincidence.

Actually, if you give the board a hard shove, it will just go farther across the fall line before slowing down and "catching" the sidecut. Again, try it, examine the track.

[felix]

Just watch a worldcup PGS an notice how the riders cross the finnish line. Thats the trick that made it for me.

So on the tail, upper body facing the finnish line, looking straight forward, both arms pointed straight forward too (in order for race timing - Only seen a few cases where it worked. One was this world championships Semi-Final WMS PSL (I think it was Neuruhrer) though she crossed the finish line with her board and body later than the other rider in the second run the timing showed a dead race) I think this positions is quite stable for bombing down.

Why do softbooter have less probs? In my eyes not really the detune but wider board (=reacting slower) as well as a much looser binding/boot setup meaning you can move a bit before the board reacts.

[yyzcanuck]

Phil, I didn't mean to turn this into a pissing match. I've re-read what you were saying and I agree, the sidecut radius will help re-direct the board due to friction created at the tail being greater than the friction at the nose (especially at the downhill contact point).

This is what holds the board running 'true' down the fall line as well. If the board is heading down the hill nose first, then the tail contact point, when it comes out of alignment with the nose, creates more friction and is pushed back in place.

I think that a perfectly symetric board would travel equally well nose or tail first. I still say that gravity is what makes the board turn though. Picture an object without a sidecut radius (such as a ball). Toss it across the hill and it still makes an arc and heads down the fall line.

As for riding the tail... yep, that's rider input. What I should have written was "reduce un-wanted rider input". Riding the tail works for me to help speed up a little bit when trying to catch someone. I believe that just riding straight doesn't require that action at all. Just stand there and let the board run true.

[Jrobb]

Why do softbooter have less probs? In my eyes not really the detune but wider board (=reacting slower) as well as a much looser binding/boot setup meaning you can move a bit before the board reacts.

I agree. Softboot interface is like a Cadillac...or Mercedes limo vs the hardboot interface being more like a sport tuned Porsche suspension. I've found my most comfy position (in softies) is equal weight on both feet, and leaning forward. Hands in front, kind of in my lap and legs bent slightly...shoulders facing the direction of travel. If I go hands behind back, I get too relaxed and the tail gets squirrely, although this is fine if I'm slingnig turns at breakneck speed. But if I'm straightlining...it's different

J

[Zone]

jrobb, love your avatar by the way.... :lol:

[Phil]

Phil, I didn't mean to turn this into a pissing match. .

Neither did I, really. I guess I am too easily annoyed. I teach this stuff six days a week. I have demonstrated this to a lot of people, so when someone tells me that it doesn't work, I feel like I just should not have mentioned it. The problem is, it does work, and I feel that the info is beneficial.

I've re-read what you were saying and I agree, the sidecut radius will help re-direct the board due to friction created at the tail being greater than the friction at the nose (especially at the downhill contact point).

This is what holds the board running 'true' down the fall line as well. If the board is heading down the hill nose first, then the tail contact point, when it comes out of alignment with the nose, creates more friction and is pushed back in place.

I think that a perfectly symetric board would travel equally well nose or tail first. .

Yup, and actually, just about any board will do it, nose or tail first. My F2 SL and RS both do it, whether you throw them switch, or ride them "Four on the Floor" switch, they still follow the sidecut to the fall line.

I still say that gravity is what makes the board turn though. Picture an object without a sidecut radius (such as a ball). Toss it across the hill and it still makes an arc and heads down the fall line.

Yes, but gravity is responsible for a lot of the things that we do on a snowboard, and we use our board to counter it. In the same way, the edge that contacts the snow will not let the board take the arc that the basketball does. When you do this with a board, it seems to "edge" through the snow until it finds its own arc. It looks like the board should just start going downhill, but the edge does not allow it until it finds its arc.

Maybe you can help me explain this better - I never have been very good with typing this stuff out. That is why I always show people. Like I said before, try it yourself, then come back and comment on it. Maybe you can explain it better than I did.

[Zone]

Maybe it's late at night but I don't quite get it, I have a hard time translating words to movie in my head.

Phil, a short movie maybe??

[Phil]

Good idea. I'll see what I can do....