Any Burton Fish users out there...

[Jeffrey Day]

I have a question. I am thinking about retiring my tuckered out K2 Eldo. Initially, I was leaning towards a Donek Incline, a Never Summer Premier or an Arbor A-Frame to be used with my soft boots. But I got the latest TWS magazine and they were talking about powder boards.

Now I live and ride in New England mostly, with a trip out west once a year, if I'm lucky. So a full blown powder board like a 4807 I don't think would make sense for me. But TWS also talked about tapered powder boards.

So it got me to thinking, how would a Burton Fish type board ride/handle on the deverse/varied snow conditions of the northeast and New England? Seeing that I spend most of my time, I'd say 75-90%, on an alpine board, my freeride deck comes out early/late season. Or when I happen to be lucky enough to encounter powder here on the east coast or when I go out west.

Any thoughts?

[lonerider]

I have a question. I am thinking about retiring my tuckered out K2 Eldo. Initially, I was leaning towards a Donek Incline, a Never Summer Premier or an Arbor A-Frame to be used with my soft boots. But I got the latest TWS magazine and they were talking about powder boards.

Now I live and ride in New England mostly, with a trip out west once a year, if I'm lucky. So a full blown powder board like a 4807 I don't think would make sense for me. But TWS also talked about tapered powder boards.

So it got me to thinking, how would a Burton Fish type board ride/handle on the deverse/varied snow conditions of the northeast and New England? Seeing that I spend most of my time, I'd say 75-90%, on an alpine board, my freeride deck comes out early/late season. Or when I happen to be lucky enough to encounter powder here on the east coast or when I go out west.

Any thoughts?

I've ridden the first-generation Fish and it was not very good on windchalk or steep firm terrain (you already know it's strengths in tree powder). I've been told the latter models were better. I would recommend the Malolo instead with a mellower shape and taper as PSR thought highly and he owns a 160 Fish, 4807, and several Tankers (they sponsor him) and lives/rides on the East Coast.

On 3/17/2006 PSR wrote in from 72.254.xxx.xxx:

I managed to wrangle a malolo from the demo tent the last time the Burton guys were at Stratton. The "dude' doing board setups kept telling me that the 164 was 'Too Big' to be my ride. Little does he know what I usually ride, a 172 or 182 Tanker. Yeah, Big, at 164cm.. Um, NOO! Anyway, I gotta say that JG's shape works beautifully in freshies, although the nose was just a tad on the stiff side, didn't 'sense' snow density changes as well as my Reto does. However, this board does Freeride very well. It can carve, a suprise to me, as few Burtons of late have had Any power or turn radius control while on edge. It jumps well, and spins with a bit of 'work', but well within the mission parameters of a Freeride deck. So, those who like the Burton Logo, and want a freerider, look twice at the malolo. It's a good, solid, back-to-the-good-stuff oldschoolin' board that almost reminded me of how the guys in Burlington used to do business.

Well, until I took my '93 Air 6 out a few days later... The old Air still has the goods, the malolo is a decent shot at cruising memory lane. If you see one at your local B-Dealer, maybe put it on the 'want' list.

If you want you can post a follow-up question to him at www.freecarve.com. I've asked people about the Prior Khyber and reviews seem to say the same (great in tree powder, but while not horrible - not the greatest in icy, firm conditions).

[JoelP]

I live in Aspen and out of the local crew we have 8 guys riding the Fish. I know there a lot of others that have other preferences but I also know for a fact that you can't pry the Fishes from these guys. I just spent the last 2 days on mine and it looks like the next few days we'll be out fishing some more.

[Derf]

Well, until I took my '93 Air 6 out a few days later... The old Air still has the goods, the malolo is a decent shot at cruising memory lane.

Well, if the grandmaster himself says he likes his 93 Burton Air 6, I'll keep mine. It was good the last time I got some good powder... back in 93 (at Jay Peak):(

[jdgang]

I have a 160 fish and while it handles the Powder very well...Its not all that great on the groomers....now I have the first year first that has 40mm of taper while this year has 30mm. I agree with the above the Malolo is supposed to be a better all around board....also if you can find one the new supermodels are really suppose to rock

[Rob Stevens]

Just get a regular snowboard.

A Fish, or even a Malolo wouldn't work as well as a regular, shorter freeride board.

A FR board should work better on the snow you ride just about all the time and would still be good in pow. I don't think the reverse could be said for a more tapered shape than normal.

Salomon Forecast... High 150's... low 160's?

[skategoat]

I didn't mind my Fish that much on the groom as long as I remembered not to really crank a turn. But that could be said about any freeride (ie. non-alpine) board. Sometimes, you forget that you're not riding alpine gear, you try to edge hard and end up slamming yourself into the ground.

The Fish was great in the trees. Those of us in the East should start some sort of powder board loaner program. I have two powder specific boards and they get out once a year.

[Bobby Buggs]

I have two powder specific boards and they get out once a year.

Yeah like my 178 4807

[skategoat]

What are you talking about Bobby? I have a 4807 but I don't see your name on it.

[Bobby Buggs]

Look closer

[BlueB]

4807 totally rocks in pow and it's a surprisingly good carver, too. Heck, I can EC on it!

3800 is also a good choice, flex a bit mellower than 4807, shape like Fish, but smaller taper.

[skategoat]

My 4807 gets its maiden run at Park City in January. What angles your running BlueB?

Bobby, sorry for the lack of comprehension. We can both commiserate on our lack of powder riding opportunities. Sometimes I wonder what I'm doing living in the East.

[BlueB]

40/35. Still gives me a bit of underhang, which is ok in softer snow. Sometimes I feel that I could go even a bit steeper, or more splay.

Do not hessitate to take it out on groomed, it carves like a champ. Just do not load the nose.

[philw]

I have a question. I am thinking about retiring my tuckered out K2 Eldo. [...] But TWS also talked about tapered powder boards.

So it got me to thinking, how would a Burton Fish type board ride/handle on the deverse/varied snow conditions of the northeast and New England?

These days I carry just two boards - a fish and a piste board. If I have to ride the piste I use the race board and life is good. If I'm in a heli or cat then I ride my fish.

Your question, I think, is about riding a fish in basically "resort powder". That is, at a resort on a powder day. I generally don't ride mine in those conditions, although I have it in my bag should I need it. Here's why... at a resort you're riding "resort powder". That is, the stuff has been tracked out by other people prior to the storm, which dumps 30cm or whatever on top of a base which is pisted by boards an skis. If you've never ridden "bottomless" then you may think you're on it, but you're not. In a busy resort you can feel the stuff underneath, if you know what you're feeling for. So I can ride my race board through that stuff no problem. I could ride it better on my Fish, but that's a pretty short and wide board by my standards... it's not really the machine for soft piste, which is mostly what you'll be riding at just about any resort.

That said, I have to confess that I've never ridden a fish on piste, so it may be way better than I would guess. I did ride my old powder stick (Burton Supermodel 168) on the piste and it sucked big time - too wide and floppy for real men. Rent one and see, if you're not sure, or pick a $100 fish up somewhere and carry it for epic days...

[Hugh]

Jeffrey,

I have a 156cm HD Burton Fish that is awesome for powder in the trees. It floats really well and slips through tight spaces with ease. There are some 160cm Fish out there, but they are very hard to find. I was surprised that the 156cm HD works so well for me (5'9", 185 lbs), the 156cm MD is for lighter riders.

If I read your initial question correctly, I think that the O'Sin 4807 would be your carving/powder board of choice. For carving on soft hardpack and a few inches of fresh on top of hardpack, go with steeper carving angles on the 4807. For deeper powder, lower your angles to something more like freeride angles. I tried to ride steep angles in deep powder and hated it, my feet screamed in pain, then I lower the angles...no problem. Some people ride soft boots on their 4807, but everyone that I ride with use only hardboots on their 4807's.

My friends and I call the 178cm 4807 the "secret weapon", I own two of them.

--Hugh

[philw]

Interesting - they stopped the MD/HD split some time ago, but I have an HD which I ride in slight preference to the old MD. That's 1.75m 62kgs - much less weight to carry, but I ride fast and aggressively.

I mellow my angles from 60 parallel on piste to about 55 on the powder... but thinking about it, that's mostly because I thought I should have a bit less - I set it at 55 years ago and it works so I haven't screwed with it. What angles are you using on the fish in deep powder?

[lonerider]

Interesting - they stopped the MD/HD split some time ago, but I have an HD which I ride in slight preference to the old MD. That's 1.75m 62kgs - much less weight to carry, but I ride fast and aggressively.

I mellow my angles from 60 parallel on piste to about 55 on the powder... but thinking about it, that's mostly because I thought I should have a bit less - I set it at 55 years ago and it works so I haven't screwed with it. What angles are you using on the fish in deep powder?

I used 21/9 on my 156MD I'm 5'8 150 lbs.

[jdgang]

Interesting - they stopped the MD/HD split some time ago, but I have an HD which I ride in slight preference to the old MD. That's 1.75m 62kgs - much less weight to carry, but I ride fast and aggressively.

I mellow my angles from 60 parallel on piste to about 55 on the powder... but thinking about it, that's mostly because I thought I should have a bit less - I set it at 55 years ago and it works so I haven't screwed with it. What angles are you using on the fish in deep powder?

They only use the 156MD/HD the first year of fish. The 160 only came in one flex pattern. also the first year fish 2003 had the most amount of taper 40mm, burton went to 30 mm of taper from 2004 on and the malolo has 20 mm of taper. the new super model has 10 mm of taper.

[skategoat]

Interesting - they stopped the MD/HD split some time ago, but I have an HD which I ride in slight preference to the old MD. That's 1.75m 62kgs - much less weight to carry, but I ride fast and aggressively.

I mellow my angles from 60 parallel on piste to about 55 on the powder... but thinking about it, that's mostly because I thought I should have a bit less - I set it at 55 years ago and it works so I haven't screwed with it. What angles are you using on the fish in deep powder?

At 55 degrees, wouldn't you have trouble applying leverage to the edges on such a wide board? I run 30/15 but maybe I should try steeper.

[Bobby Buggs]

Look at the angles I have on my 4807, so much for being over the edges. I have 4 scopes on my front knee and my flexibility really sucks so lower angles really torques my knee. I do ride the back foot a bit lower but not much lower than 50

[Hugh]

Hey Buggs,

Are your 4807 angles for carving only or do you also ride deep powder like that?

I should explain that most of the deep powder that I was in was very bumpy and tracked out, so lower angles were needed to survive the bumpfest.

--Hugh

Look at the angles I have on my 4807, so much for being over the edges. I have 4 scopes on my front knee and my flexibility really sucks so lower angles really torques my knee. I do ride the back foot a bit lower but not much lower than 50

[Bobby Buggs]

I would have to say yes that is how I ride in 99% of the conditions I face. I was at Vail last week in 12+ riding my Coiler just as you see it. Not so happy but still got it done in some nasty spots on Blue Sky basin under the chair by Lovers leap.

[Guest shrederjen]

The Fish or the Manolo is on my to buy list,

for those once or twice a year sic powder days,

and/or for heli/cat/sled skiing!

Thanks for all the good and bad stuff about it.

I still want one!

[philw]

At 55 degrees, wouldn't you have trouble applying leverage to the edges on such a wide board? I run 30/15 but maybe I should try steeper.

I don't, apparently. I only ride heli/ cat powder on my board, so I don't have to deal with wide-board issues. I would very much expect that kind of problem riding a powder board on piste. Not sure why anyone would want to do that though: I just try to use the right board for the right terrain.

[philw]

Here's a shot of me taken today demonstrating the Fish. I think it would look rather odd shot in my garden, but it was very comfortable here ;-)