Foolish kids at TWS

[D-Sub]

I was a late starter in the early years (November 1982) but as I recall it was called snowsurfing. I don't think I heard the words "alpine" or "carving" until the late '80s or early '90s.

It is a real pity that any division exists between the various styles of boarding and I think it's up to each individual rider to be friendly to everybody else on the mountain no matter how many planks they are on or how they choose to ride.

Mind you there are two kinds of boarders that annoy me: 1. People who run over my board in the liftlines, 2. People who sit down to strap up and block the exit ramp at the top of the lifts; and 3. People who are unfriendly. (Yes that's 3 types).

The only point of going boarding is to have fun !

wow. today is a day of tangents and misunderstanding.

OK OK, I meant the early years of "carving." It was called alpine. And...a quick search of the term "alpine" brings up references to "hard boots" and "carving" and not a one to freeriding

my point was, though, basically the same as you are saying. The distinction shouldnt matter. Just another form of "othering" and Im not buyin it. I dont think Im any better a rider because Im on a hardboot rig, but plenty do, and often enough they are wrong.

heck...was it Denervaud that had a TWS piece that showed him droppin cliffs, everything else, in hardboots? I think so. Early 90s or so? Alpine freeriding?

:)

[Mellow Yellow]

paging CMC... paging CMC... you are needed on the bomber floor for a potential flame war flare up.....

[skatha]

Last year was my first in hardboots...I got no flak whatsoever, in fact, most were "cool, a racer..."

My fav comment was the guy who told me I was the most graceful rider he had seen...

I laughed and said "you must not get out much"....

I don't like the attitude of park rats too much, but I figure I'm the only one with any cred to correct 'em when I come across bad attitude...in fact, I defended them to an older skiier nursing a torn Achilles tendon last year when I was resting my broken ankle....I reminded her of "hot dog" skiiers and mentioned the youth issue rather than the means of conveyance issue...

As for freeriding in hardboots, I'm actually going to put the alpine boards to rest this year while I figure out what my ankle's going to let me do....

As for neon, my 20 year old parka still is in great shape so I will still be wearing it in all it's teal/hot pink/magenta glory this next season...

[Neil Gendzwill]

I understand that "alpine" now is associated with hardboots, but in the skiing world it means exclusively going downhill (both in equipment and style). So that's how I think of alpine snowboarding, as focussed on the mountain. I differ from some of the BOL locals in that I like the groomed but it's not my preferred terrain. Trees, bumps, pow, groomed, it's all going down the hill. Hiking the park is not alpine.

As far as equipment, hard or soft, doesn't matter to me. I happen to think hardboots are the best tool for the job, but then we all do otherwise we wouldn't hang out here. There's a range of what is functional for what I do, from non-functional (noodly park boards with blunted edges, floppy boots and lowbacks) through very functional softboot setups (BX boards with stiff boots and strong highback bindings) into most functional (IMO, medium-width directional boards like AMs and 4WDs with softer hardboot setups). I also happen to think that stiff, long and narrow boards paired with very stiff hardboots specialized for the groom are a detour away from functional for what I think of as true alpine riding, but I may be in the minority here.

[Pow]

I also happen to think that stiff, long and narrow boards paired with very stiff hardboots specialized for the groom are a detour away from functional for what I think of as true alpine riding, but I may be in the minority here.

I agree, they are very specialized tools, but the best tools out there for groomed runs and for the most part ice. That's why i got my longboard first, then my alpine board:biggthump

[D-Sub]

Neil

Im sorry but...you cant just say "well, this is my defnition of a term" when it goes against what the "real" definition is and not expect a heap of misunderstanding.

yes, downhill skiing is called alpine, but only to distinguish it from cross country...but the term "alpine" has never been used to describe "all terrain" snowboarding.

this really isnt the point though...its the "we're better and they need to recognize it" that I find hard to swallow. From either "side" ie freestyle or old men with race boards.

even in the TWS article the angry girl said "racing takes way more skill and discipline than freestyle"

really? running gates takes "more" skill than...heck...I dont even know what the current tricks are, but while I dont prefer halfpipe or hucking I still think its pretty impressive.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Im sorry but...you cant just say "well, this is my defnition of a term" when it goes against what the "real" definition is and not expect a heap of misunderstanding.

That's why I defined my terms. If you go back a few years, you'll find "alpine snowboards" defined basically as directional boards, and the bindings used were not in the equation. Dictionary-wise, "alpine" means related to the Alps or any mountains. However, I agree that the current definition in use for snowboarding refers to hard boots. I curmedgeonly reject that definition for my own use. I've always referred to myself as an Alpine rider, no matter whether I'm on soft or hard boots. Although admittedly I haven't been on soft boots since 1990...

[D-Sub]

you darn curmudgeon you.

Ive been riding since '89, and the term alpine sure seemed to apply to carving and plates

we're being nitpicky here.

the real point is the "animosity" and my claim is that many, many carvers are equally or even more responsible for it's existence

[Phil]

I also happen to think that stiff, long and narrow boards paired with very stiff hardboots specialized for the groom are a detour away from functional for what I think of as true alpine riding, but I may be in the minority here.

As a big guy, I see stiff equipment as the only equipment that feels like it is made for me. Long boards make sense for my size as well. The narrow part, well, it is much faster edge to edge, so why not? I would imagine that I am in the minority though.

[D-Sub]

phil, do you ride full blow race boards "all mountain?"

neil's being a curmudgeon, insisting that all mountain riding is alpine. just call it freeriding neil! ya rebellious sword-fighting canuck!

[Phil]

phil, do you ride full blow race boards "all mountain?"

Yes, but at my size, a race board flexes like an AM would for most people. If I am on anything less than a race board, hardboots feel terrible. They just over torque the board. It does not bother me, though, 'cause I love the feel of a race board.

[Neil Gendzwill]

As a big guy, I see stiff equipment as the only equipment that feels like it is made for me. Long boards make sense for my size as well. The narrow part, well, it is much faster edge to edge, so why not? I would imagine that I am in the minority though.

How does that work for you in the bumps? Powder? Tight trees? Genuinely curious. I can make my Tanker 200 work in intermediate bumps but I doubt I'd want to take it where they're huge and steep. And if it was race-board stiff it wouldn't really even work in the smaller stuff.

[Phil]

How does that work for you in the bumps? Powder? Tight trees? Genuinely curious. I can make my Tanker 200 work in intermediate bumps but I doubt I'd want to take it where they're huge and steep. And if it was race-board stiff it wouldn't really even work in the smaller stuff.

It works well anywhere. I would have to say that it is not great in powder, but who cares? Who needs a board to be good in powder in order to ride powder well, right? I love bumps. I could ride them all day - zippers, bridges, big, small, tight, wide open, whatever. I love them. The steeper the better. It works in the smaller stuff because, again, I am a big guy and the board bends. Of course, I am not riding a 200, but a 176.

I attribute a lot of this to having taken my AASI L III on a race board. They pretty much put you through the wringer and make you do it all, so you have to go prepared to do it all. I chose to go on a race board, and I made sure that I was prepared to take the exam on that equip. I guess that I come across like it is natural, but that is not really true. There were a lot of things that I MADE myself do for hours at a time (read steep large moguls switch) in prep for the exam. Now a lot of stuff just seems like second nature on a race board.

I think we have officially achieved thread creep.:)

[D-Sub]

thread creep engaged.

I sure would love to see someone ride steep bumps on a flat tailed board, switch. Im not callin you a Liar, phil, but Ive never seen it and would be amazed to do so.

Im sure youd be one of the first to acknowledge that there's a LOT of talk in snowboarding...dudes claiming to be able to tear up the whole mountain, but only go out when its sunny and hasnt snowed for a week.

I dunno...we definitely went tangential here.

[Art]

D- I actually did a clinic on Blackomb back in 90 or 91. One of the instructors was a bumpskier as a kid. He rode the bumps switch on his alpine board at speed. Not sure of the run but is is on the 7th Heaven side of the hill near the lift and reasonably steep. In control the whole way. Never seen anything like it since. His name is Chad Breitenstein. Not sure if he is still in the area but is a damn fine rider. Not trying to jump into the fray here, just throwin it out there.

[Phil]

I hear you, and I was not saying that to make claims. Believe me, I am not good enough to make claims. The bottom line is that I work full time at a mountain. Anyone who has ridden with me can vouch for the fact that "I show up". I am definitely not the first or only one to ride switch bumps with no tail. I have seen several guys do it. Usually they were studying for an exam, though. When I went for my exam, that was still my weakest task, but you can blow up on a couple tasks and still pass. Unlike a lot of instructors, teaching is my ONLY income (other than my wife's) so I don't get a lot of time to do photo shoots (nor do I really care about photo shoots). Because of some conversations on Bomber, I have really wanted to have a Freestyle pics thread for the last few years so everyone can get pics and post them. Maybe we can finally get it this year. I know that you (D-sub) have repeatedly said that you would like to see pics of this stuff. I will try to make it a priority with myself and some other hardbooters.

[Phil]

As an aside, seeing an examiner on an alpine setup ride bumps well, then ride them switch well, then hit the park is what got me into alpine. I never thought that the equipment was that versatile. I am glad that I pursued it and found out for myself.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Phil, I want to go ride with you. I hardly ever see anyone competent in the bumps, never mind switch on a raceboard. I certainly can't do it and wouldn't try, I'm just a weekend warrior, not a pro.

However, when you said "long" I thought you meant long for a raceboard, not long compared to popsicle sticks. I think of 176 as kind of medium. I'm on an AM 172 myself, no trouble with the length anywhere.

[Phil]

I'm just a weekend warrior, not a pro.

However, when you said "long" I thought you meant long for a raceboard, not long compared to popsicle sticks. I think of 176 as kind of medium. I'm on an AM 172 myself, no trouble with the length anywhere.

I'm not a weekend warrior, and I am far from being a pro, but if you ever get down this way, I would love to ride with you.

You are right, 176 is not that long. In PA, you will only see serious GS racers with longer boards though. If I still raced GS, I would definitely want something in the high 190's, and no, that would not be an AM board to me. In fact, I have ridden several different "long" GS boards and would love to have them, but I feel that on my pimple of a hill it would be more work than fun, especially in the bumps, park, pipe, switch, etc. If I cannot go out on any given day and do whatever I feel like whenever I feel like it on a board, I don't find that to be much fun. It would also not be very effective for teaching. Imagine a kid showing up wanting a lesson on aerial spins and I am on a 196 GS board. I am not saying that it would be impossible, but it would not be worth the extra effort given what I get paid:rolleyes: .

[D-Sub]

D- I actually did a clinic on Blackomb back in 90 or 91. One of the instructors was a bumpskier as a kid. He rode the bumps switch on his alpine board at speed. Not sure of the run but is is on the 7th Heaven side of the hill near the lift and reasonably steep. In control the whole way. Never seen anything like it since. His name is Chad Breitenstein. Not sure if he is still in the area but is a damn fine rider. Not trying to jump into the fray here, just throwin it out there.

I would be amazed to see that. Again, not saying it isnt possible, that no one can do it, just never seen it. Not like Ive spent my life on the hill either. When I lived in steamboat I got reasonably proficient at bump boarding, but that was just rut riding, hopping over the tops occasionally.

Id love to see this!

[D-Sub]

I hear you, and I was not saying that to make claims. Believe me, I am not good enough to make claims. The bottom line is that I work full time at a mountain. Anyone who has ridden with me can vouch for the fact that "I show up". I am definitely not the first or only one to ride switch bumps with no tail. I have seen several guys do it. Usually they were studying for an exam, though. When I went for my exam, that was still my weakest task, but you can blow up on a couple tasks and still pass. Unlike a lot of instructors, teaching is my ONLY income (other than my wife's) so I don't get a lot of time to do photo shoots (nor do I really care about photo shoots). Because of some conversations on Bomber, I have really wanted to have a Freestyle pics thread for the last few years so everyone can get pics and post them. Maybe we can finally get it this year. I know that you (D-sub) have repeatedly said that you would like to see pics of this stuff. I will try to make it a priority with myself and some other hardbooters.

Phil

please realize that Im not asking you to prove anything, and I am 100% in agreement with the not bothering with film and photos. It can be a pain in the ass. I am not doubting your capabilities, either. Not in the slightest! I hope that you believe that.

[Phil]

Well, the written word never works as well as the spoken word for me Dave. I am sitting here hoping that I have not made myself out to be better than I am and you are sitting there hoping that you have not challenged my claimed abilities.

[D-Sub]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Come to summit county this winter. Odds are thats where I will be.

in all reality I probably couldnt keep up. I think I go kinda slow, and I avoid bumps, especially riding fakie with a flat tail

[FTA2R]

he is an EXCELLENT rider. so are his hardbootin' colleagues (Neil, Sam, etc) @ RoundTop (granted this is his FT job, but that's besides the point) it will take me years to become 1/4 as good as he is. My avatar is Phil doing a slide, I took the pic. Phil does FS or will go down trying to learn a new FS trick. i saw him take a very hard fall from a rail and get right back up. For such a small mtn. with such little natural snow, the local hardboot crop is dynamite. There's also a freak softboot carver affectionately called "the noodle."

Neil, if you come to the 'Top, bring those crazy ass ninja swords, i'd like to ride with one attached to my waist. then cut up some PARK RATS. JK D-SUB hahaha and that puppet, you have a puppet right?

===

Barry

[Dan]

I've ridden the lift with park monkey kids on Burton gear who thought my stuff was way cool, and were damn fine company. I'd talk to them anytime. I've also met carvers who are total hosers, and next time I wouldn't waste my oxygen.

If they're cool with me, I'm cool with them ... and I don't care what you call it, let's go ride. I might even attempt a rail this season.

Hmm, I don't know about rails, but thanks to a skier friend that is a true all-mountain ripper and constantly challenges me to improve, I rode pipe a little bit this season (VERY little, as in fewer than 10 rides), riding plates on an all-mountain carver.

Verdict? Pipe is freakin' cool! But also very hard as people have been saying. I only got above the lip a few times, but based on that I can definitely see the appeal. I'm in the "steep learning curve" period of learning, where it's very challenging but every repetition yields noticeable improvement--always a nice feeling. It actually got me thinking about taking a FS board next and setting the plates to flatter angles to see what I can do...but then I remember the line.

Waiting in line for ice time is probably the worst part of riding pipe, and probably enough to keep me carving high-speed lines most days next year. Still, I'm sure there will be some sloppy days when I venture back into the pipe to give it another whirl. It really <b>is</b> pretty cool...just not as cool as carving :)