felix

Well for ski aerials it's the way to go. It's far too dangerous to start that sport very early and you will miss the coordination anyhow. Therefore it's mainly trampolin or gymnastics and then on to freestyle. Learning how to land a jump is not difficult if you got perfect coordintation in the air and even pros will spend a lot if not the majority of their time on a trampolin or doing gymnastics. I think the same applies for diving.

Let's make some bets or a poll and lets see in two years. I predict he never ever makes it through to the top 16 (Quarterfinals) in a worldcup BX event. If a serious skier announces the switch he will stand a chance, but a small guy and more of a dancer?

I talked to Jani Goltes at Ischgl SG Invitational 4 (?) weeks ago where he was on a 183 (maybe another length) Pro Carve with plates mounted. He said as well that they are still in development and not yet ready. At the moment they aren't good enough to go out to the public. I think there may well be up to 10 producer of plates and many more models. The "Kessler" plate from above - well isn't it just another Hangl, I'm pretty sure Sigi Grabner had them on some of his testboards too.? I've seen a plenty Kessler boards with that plate on. I should have made photos in Ischgl to satisfy your plate hunger. There were many different constructions to be seen. If you go to www.sgproteam.com and click on the team photos you can see some more constructions Not mentioned on bomberonline: Group photo 3+4 with Andi Promegger (there is as well another person with the "kessler plate", or on the photo team 6 where Andis board portrudes into the picture; Christoph Segura on team 9 has as well some sort of plate I've never seen but it must be old as he retired from racing long ago; Team 10 with Christian Veit on yet another F2 plate, team 11 Heidi Neuruhrer with yet another plate; team 13 Zan Kosir I'm not sure if this plate was already mentioned on Bomber, team 14 with Sigi and Chris Rothwangl showing very good the two standard Hangl/SG plates, team 15 - Fischnaller with a little adapted SG/Hangl plate;

You can't compare it with skiing because you've got two edges and you can't get them to the same angles. I boot out all the time even though I'm on FIS limit with plate/binding/ski height and got Fischer racing ski boots that are about the least prone to boot out available. It's impossible to hinder bootout without taking wider skis, that are slower however. (imagine a 105mm wide boot (bout the smallest you can get in MP 26.5) on a 65mm wide race ski - at least Fis widened skis for next year by 3-4mm in DH/SG). You simply can't improve that situation. Analogy would be to offer race bindings that are wider than the boots. However SnowPro is offering a top-level binding that in my eyes really wants to boot out and this in my eyes a design flaw, so I wonder if its better with the short baseplate version (according to alpinecarving the heel mechanism only got two screws to attach - so maybe its smaller?).

Hi - I'm wondering how all users of the Snowpro F-A-S-T system cope with the binding dragging into the snow on backside I assume it's no problem if you own UPZ boots. However it's a pain with my Raichle 325 (wouldn't be better with the Deeluxe series boots either and probabely worse with heads and burtons) as the boot will not overhang the edge at the backside while the Fast mechanism does so by 2cm because it is so wide - the only problem would be filing away so much that the spring pops out. I now just filed down half of the Fast mechanism plastics to prevent dragging. Now back of boot and binding should start dragging into the snow at about the same time- binding still being slightly ahead. It's no security risk on my SP race as the metal things that hold the boot are screewed into the baseplate, However I had to epoxy some holes that I made. I'm thinking about just filling the thing from the inside with epoxy and filing down even more - but I can't achieve much more as otherwise the cable will be outside. I've won the snowpro Race F-A-S-T at a snowboard competition and thought it would be a waste to sell it on ebay as they don't score much. Does anybody know if the Snowpros with the short baseplate are better in that aspect (I have a friend who's sponsored by SP so I think I could get some spare parts for free if the short version ones were smaller)? How the heck is the rest of you doing? For me I could have binned the binding otherwise as with the boot centered and no toe drag the Fast mechanism stould over about 2cm, what a crappy design. I'll come back next season to report if it broke or held up.

Just spoke to a local racer here (races sometimes in Europecup). He's going to switch from his Kessler to a Goltes 162 for slalom racing. He told me that quite a lot of other East-Austrian amateur racers are considering to switch to Goltes for Slalom boards too and some as well for the 183 GS (though fewer). He told me that two years ago Goltes snowboards couldn't convince him and others from his team at all but like most people who tested the new pro carve is really fascinated about it. Seems that Jani Goltes with Rok Flander got a new secret board weapon there for next year for all those that can't train more than 2-3 times a week.

Well I personally would never use a lifted system for freecarving - in freecarving I achieve much higher angles than in racing and therefore love my very low height burton bindings - I could however allways use some more dampening. For racing adding more leverage means more power to the edge also with fewer angle and is therefore a must. More dampening can't damage either. It's unlike skiing where one main reason for plates in racing and carving is bootout.

Well on skis it's not about Hangl but all about Vist plates in the racing world. They incorporate so much aluminium that the're damn heavy too. Couple this with some bindings of the release range up to DIN 18 or higher that are anything but light and some race stock skis and you might end up around 10kg for a pair of skis. Hangl produced a while ago some insane riser plates for carving (not racing) that lifted you up 6-8cm - Dunno the weight of that plates. Oh and then skiboots are a lot heavier than snowboard hardboots. Especially plug boots due to the thick plactics.

Hmm, with racers in europe burtons race plates (and now ibex) still got great reputation. Just look how many are actually still on them, especially since the move to plates has happened. I've got a 97 race plate modell which still looks as new though heavy use. I've got a SnowPro Race Step/in too which I think is not that steady. About any binding I know (I dont know about TDs) will fail if you move bail and heel to the complete outside, also F2s. That's enourmous stress.

Don't forget about SG next season. Many Kessler riders (mainly europecup) I spoke to at the SG Invitational were stunned about the performance of the 07/08 boards with the new flex choices and are thinking about a switch over both on SL and GS. Oh and as Sigi seems to build now junior raceboards (I've seen some protos as small as 140cm but maybe missed some even shorter ones) kids will be given for the first time real raceboards too.

I must confess they look pretty cool. I've been riding with Jerry Niedermaier (headshaper at F2) and Christian Veit (one of the sflex developers) two times up on the lift in Ischgl last week and talked with him a bit about the boards. Unluckily their test guy dropped out so they only had a few boards for testing but because of other boards I wanted to test before I didn't even get to test them. Watch out for the new Sigi Grabner Snowboards - they've got graphics that are falling out like no other snowboard at the present time (some looking like those good old times).

No the Goltes Extreme Carve has the same great construction. ---> http://www.goltes.si/eng/ however the catalog is not yet up to date (I've got a hardcopy on CD which already includes the longer snowboards in 183 and 188).

At the exceptionally great SG Invitational in Ischgl one week ago I had the chance to test the following boards (because of the tight time schedule with the race and the softening conditions in the afternoon I couldn't try any more boards like the F2 worldcup edition or SG alpine). It was a great great event with snowboarding with the worldcup stars during the day and hanging out until the beginning of the morning with them in the Pascha (Red Bull had sponsored free drinks every night). Some worldcup riders were partying so hard-out I couldn't believe that they will get up next day (well some didn't even sleep Friday night) and even less understand that they are profesionals. Well all former worldcup Pros and current were extraordinary nice people and foremost I want to say thank you to Sigi for organising this great event. (www.sgproteam.com). Everybody seemed so happy and cheerfull during the 3 days and all people I spoke to look forward coming back next year. (Lets hople SG, Ischgl and RedBull can provide the fundings again as they definitely put in a lot of money and effort into it. (free food during the 3 days, all night free Vodka/Redbull in Ischgls Number one disco Pacha in the VIP zone, Accomodation for the Pros and Heroes, race organisation, drinks in the race area.....................) Tested Boards: SG Snowboards: Race 185 limited edition and Race 162 soft. (Both 2007/08) - without plates. Goltes: Procarve 170, 183 and Extreme Carve 171 Pureboarding: TWO My first board tested was the SG Race 185 limited. With my 70kg and not very good racing technique this board was a little overkill for myself. I don't think I could get it down an icy GS course if set a bit tighter. Very damp, very stable and surprisingly turny for 18.5m radius. Maybe a bit too hard for me. The soft version wasn't there when I went to get my testboard so I went with a ltd edition. (From next year on all SG Race will be available in Soft/Medium/Hard stiffness to suit the racers weight class). For freecarving it provided exceptional speed while still feeling very secure. I could not find out the limits of this board. SG Race 162 Soft: Actually in the beginning I only wanted to test out the GS boards but then tried this board too. Great decision but bad for my pocket. I though my F2 in 158 (sort of team stock) would be all I'ld ever need but this slalom rocket showed me how a great board should handle rutted icy courses as well as softer conditions. Exceptionally quick edge to edge. Very stable and damp and the big point for me compared to my F2 was that even though it has 12m radius it handled very short turns as good while still accelerating with ease on straighter passages. Very easy to initiate the turns and exceptional how easy it was to change from drifting to carving. Goltes Pro Carve 170: Probabely the best freecarving machine I've ever had under my feet. Super Damp and Stable with great security on the runs which were still pretty hard in the morning. The edge just holds and holds but works as well in race-style with drifting. The board is still very lively unlikely to what I would expect for a board this damp. Off course not suited for GS/SL due to radius. Goltes Pro Carve 183: A pretty ideal GS board for lighter riders like me or people not having the skills to manouver a 1850-2200 cm radius worldcup GS raceboard from Kessler or SG through a racecourse (70kg). With around 15m radius it is still very turny and provides excellent freecarving possibilities. Quick edge to edge and also good in softer snow and I felt allways confident no matter how hard I pushed on icy parts. Very good on longer turns too. My F2 speedsters (158 SL team 9.5m, 172 GS 14m radius) felt like beginner raceboards compared to the Goltes and SG's. Goltes Extremecarve 171: Well for extremecarving I think it can't compare with the Swoard (I own a 168 medium) but it rode very well too. I had some probs on changing edges and sometimes needed to initiate the turn two times. Felt a bit unstable at higher speeds. Pureboarding TWO (length I don't know - longest they had in Ischgl): Definitely a nice board but it couldn't convince me. I tried to ride it with both race style or carving/extremecarving style and it simply didn't work well for me. It carved very small circles and was quite stable. It however didn't give me the security I was used from the Goltes or SG snwowboards. On a bit higher speeds I felt unsecure and I felt locked into the carve. Best board for riding big rollers and probabley great for softboot carving and occassional boardercross and teaching in a snowboard school. Please know: I tested all boards for 3-4 runs (except the Goltes Pro Carve 170 which I just couldn't loosen from my boots and had 7-8 runs). Maybe with different snow or tuning or technique all above will change. About my level: I'm allright in GS courses but have still lotta difficulties in slalom. (just raced 2 slaloms and had 1 day training in slalom so a bit practice will improve). On the SG invitational slalom course worldcup riders like Benjamin Karl rode times in the 30 seconds, record was 29.5. FIS riders got times around 31-33 seconds. My two runs were around 37 seconds (without big mistake in the first run and severall smaller ones in the second I could have managed around 34 seconds). I only race occassionaly and freecarve mostly.

So its a long time ago since this thread started up but I decided to append it here. I tested the boards at the SG Invitational in Ischgl and general consensus I heard was that all people on the Procarves (most riders are upper Fis Levels or once were really good rider and some just amateurs like myself) were stunned. Only the SGS raceboards stand could gather as much popularity as the Goltes stand during the 3 days (other companies present were F2 with their new slalom worldcup line, Virus (only Saturday) and Pureboarding (only Sunday). The Goltes Pro Carve line is developped with much help and input by teamrider Rok Flander (current world champion) and other good raceboarders. In the beginning I first thought about testing the SG and F2 boards but after a very interesting chat with Jani Goltes on the chair decided to test the Goltes directly after the SG race. Here is my take on the next seasons Goltes Boards. Tried out 170, 183 Pro Carve as well as 171 Extremecarve. There is as well a 188 Pro Carve (or 89?) available as well as slalom sizes. First of all I must say that the build quality off all the boards is excellent. Pro Carve 170: Probabely the best freecarving machine I've ever had under my feet. Super Damp and Stable with great security on the runs which were still pretty hard in the morning. The edge just holds and holds but works as well in race-style with drifting. The board is still very lively unlikely to what I would expect for a board this damp. Off course not suited for GS/SL due to radius. Pro Carve 183: A pretty ideal GS board for lighter riders like me or people not having the skills to manouver a 1850-2200 cm radius worldcup GS raceboard from Kessler or SG through a racecourse (70kg). With around 15m radius it is still very turny and provides excellent freecarving possibilities. Quick edge to edge and also good in softer snow and I felt allways confident no matter how hard I pushed on icy parts. Very good on longer turns too. My F2 speedster (158 SL team 9.5m, 172 GS 14m radius) felt like beginner raceboardd compared to the Goltes (the SG are as well well ahead of my F2). Extremecarve 171: Well for extremecarving I think it can't compare with the Swoard (I own a 168 medium) but it rode very well too. I had some probs on changing edges and sometimes needed to initiate the turn two times. Felt a bit unstable at higher speeds. P.S. Goltes experiments now as well with plates for his carving boards but is not yet satisfied (there was one 183 with plates on demo I think). Goltes boards are designed to be ridden by 30-50 days per year snowboarders not having the muscles and skill the worldcup riders do have. For worldcup racing Goltes said it's too expensive too develop the boards and not enough profit. (Other boards I tested last weekend were a SG 185 race 2007/2008 limited edition, an SG 162 race soft (both without Hangl plates) and a Pureboarding TWO - see other topic). About my level: I'm allright in GS courses but have still lotta difficulties in slalom. (just raced 2 slaloms and had 1 day training in slalom so a bit practice will improve). On the SG invitational slalom course worldcup riders like Benjamin Karl rode times in the 30 seconds, record was 29.5. FIS riders got times around 31-33 seconds. My two runs were around 37 seconds (without big mistake in the first run and severall smaller ones in the second I could have managed around 34 seconds). I only race occassionaly and freecarve mostly.

Will F2 only offer titanal for their WC edition? Seems a bit strange to me - normally there were no big construction differences between the normal and the WC edition (my Speedster SL is a WC edition). It allways seemed to me that in the WC edition that is available here in Austria for all EC and Fis riders upwards that that its more half a year ahead in technology (like graphics from last year, construction inbetween and specs (radius...) from next year or specs that so far weren't take over) and not completly different in construction as with Titanal or simple Carbon Fibres. Oh so I assume they take the powerplate as develloped by the Veit brothers when copying the Hangl plate, correct?

I've been on a Pen 172 at the ECS in Zinal this year. I had some probs adapting my style to it and made the mistake to directly ride it first run in the morning. It really absorbs all shocks and rides well. I didn't really get it going though. I wanted to ride it again next day but then hurt my shoulder so I couldn't. I've I see one again I'll give it another go. Seemed to me like a board for everything though maybe a bit wide for racing (at least for my footsize of Mondo 26.5)

Hmm, I'll give the SG and the new F2s a testride next week at the SG Open in Ischgl (13-15). Seems like half of the top worldcup riders will gather there (except for the Swiss). for an season end. The F2s will incorporate titanal as most people know by now.

Hmm, you must be unlucky mans on the mountains. Go to St.Anton in Austria for example to dine out at 2100m altitude in a 4* rated Gault-Millaut Restaurant (highest rating available around here - I think only about 6 or 7 chefs got 4* in Austria) - well don't expect to leave with a bill below 150€ per person excluding any drinks - oh and those 10 year old wines aren't cheap either. I personally love food on Austrian and Italian resorts, in Switzerland or France it sucks though.

Yip if you go to Europe watch out for holiday seasons. Don't even bother to go when eiter the Netherlands, or Nordrhein-Westfalen in Germany got holidays. Also don't go if 3-4 big Länder of Germany (like Niedersachsen, Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg) got holidays at the same time. If you go late March watch out for easter - try to go not the week after easter as it will be again very crowded. For this year the upcoming week seems to be the best for the whole year one could have choosen (at least in Austria) but normally end of january and first week of Feb should be allright too.If snow arrives early the best weeks are however the first three weeks of december when skifields will open all slopes just so that people can be assured that lot of snow is their for christmas - even if no skiers at all are on the slopes except on weekends.

Thumbs up to Vlad - I also hate the confusion between slalom (thats racing only for me) and short turns and GS/long turns. Same for me - since I train with other people who occasionally race Europecup (attaining up to top 15 places and podiums on FIS races) my rocketed upwards. Just competing didn't cut it for. It's hard to improve if you're on your own or only with people below your ability level.

thanks D.T. for the clarification. If racing is not the goal above statements make much more sens for me.

@ D.T you ride a cross-under in slalom? We tried this with our local club sometimes ago (half of our members are riding in the Europecup (not me yet) and getting to 15 places - so I think riding level is quite high - during the glacier season we train with the Austrian B team sometimes) because it really is ímpossible to do so in Gs. However nevertheless our coach told us to only use cross-under when you are out of ballance and need to recover or if it happens as it is much slower. We clocked our times with cross-under vs cross-over runs and cross over was a lot quicker (about .5 to 1 second on a 35 sec run). Maybe its training - but on worldcup I haven't seen cross-under used in slalom either. Rather very aggressive Cross-Over from Sigi Grabner or Rok Flander (I meet both of them 13-15. April on a promo happening where 16 active worldcuppers 16 legends ant the amateurs come together in Ischgl for a season end - www.sgproteam.com ) and for sure I'll hammer the worldcuppers with questions (already sorry for them)

In Austria winter is just arriving. We have had the first real snow for this season in Eastern Austria (about 1m and another 1 forecasted for tomorrow - til now we had 30-40cm accumulated at 2000m - skifields start at 500 here due to normally great snowcover - I just had my first day freeriding for the season - after 40 days on man-made snow).:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

One important aspect of the comparison between Jayjay and Karol (reflexting to the post with both pictures beside each other) is that Jayjay demonstrates a very powerfull pull-push race technique. The second difference that strikes me is how Jayjay seperates his knees as well on frontside.

Well trying everything not to touch the snow at all isn't the best eiter, if you see the Schoch brothers they touch the snow quite often on FS turn initiation. It provides some stability (like poles on skis which many people only use as a dragging device in the snow to get a feeling on how deep they carve). But of course you should never grab for it.