WinterGold

Hi guys! I am sorry I haven´t checked in here for a long time ... my bad! I can´t read the whole thread here, but I can give you a little feedback on the Allflex plates. First of, you get a different board/edge feeling so you really need to give it some time when testing it. The magic of the Allflex plate? It works extremely effective in distributing the pressure along the whole edge. It is almost impossible to put the pressure just in the tail, for example, it will always spread out. But once you are used to it, it works so well. The edge contact is very clean and also kind of fast because it is so evenly distributed. Another advantage is that you have a very good impact absorption but still way better board feel than with isolating plates (like Bomber, SG, Apex Canada, etc.). Drifting is so much nicer as well. In the pictures of me used in this thread I am riding an original Allflex H plate hexagonal cut flex M. The plate flexes pretty heavily, but in a good way ;-). I also use an Allflex plate normal longitudinal cut flex M on my GS board. I will link my latest video here in a new thread. The whole video is done on Allflex plates!

Jack, any feedback? Where you already out in the snow? I got some feedback from Danger on the SG Soul 59XT - he was surprised how agile the board is and how well it holds an edge. He said that he was really impressed. Maybe he will join in here .

TLN, I really hope that some competitors will try the new width. Especially those not on a WC level. Because at the WC level most riders use very small shell sizes, but a lot of hobby racers don´t. So for them it is even more interesting! Weight and edge transfer - I don´t really believe that those are an issue. Talking to a lot of pros, most of them don´t even know the weight of their SL setup, so a few grams (can´t be much) won´t matter. Same goes for a few millimeter left and right of the central axis. But a good body position might have quite some benefits.

This board sounds really great! But I wouldn´t call 26.5cm wide - like not really wide

She is not on the new version ...

But maybe it is the other way round. Maybe they can't carve, because the boards don't let them. I hear a lot of complaints from weekend warriors who simply cannot put their boards on the edge enough because their boots are in the way. And really good riders who tell me that they got used to using mellow tilting angles as there is no way around it. Sounds all pretty wrong to me ...

sic t 2 - so the biggest snowboard brand does not have boards which perform well on groomers and we are not supposed to criticizes them And if you read the thread then you know that it is not about Burton. I just took them as an example, because they are pretty important in the snowboard market. Many other big brands have the same "problem". Customs are great and it is good that a lot of you guys take advantage of the possibilities! But the question here is why about 90% of the production models are simply too narrow for riding groomers competently.

H2O - 22cm 1xsculler - in the current lineup no board is wider than 26.6cm! And I can´t remember a Burton board that wide! Would be nice to see!

Erik J, do you mean me? I got an SG Soul 59XT at the beginning of the season and it opened new worlds for me! On softboots that is ... (see my picture on page 4) I also got a Jones Storm Chaser 157. Amazing powder board! And some Korua boards. I sold all my other softboot boards, which were too narrow all those years ... For hardbooting I am waiting for the SG FullRace 163XT as I love dedicated SL boards. Can´t wait to try the new setup (angles and stuff)! I have been riding my current setup with minimal variations for over a decade!

He loves the little extra width! Don´t we all love the "new" possibilities?

Coming back to hardbooting ... It is coming!!! For a production board this is pretty amazing news! A full on SL raceboard with about 22cm of waist width! Everybody who has big feet rejoice and everybody who wants to ride lower angles on his or her SL setup rejoice as well . SG FullRace Titan 163 XT - available for next season! I think it is great that a company makes this bold move and does not just look at the sales numbers ...

lonbordin started a thread on "Carving is back ..." - it overlaps with some discussions here and it is very interesting! Just talking about the board width again - the "Freestyle Carving" revolution is on! No company dares to ignore it for the next season! But they are still ignoring hardbooting and their softboot carving attempts are often funny ... Nidecker - their softboot carvers are 24cm wide ... how is that supposed to work ... Neversummer - some boards are at least 26.5cm wide (others just mid 25cm), but still barely carveable with softboots ... A guy from the industry just now told me to a. use higher angles (where shall I go? alpine angles in softboots?) b. Palmer plates (who wants those things on a powder board???) and c. cut excess rubber from my softboots (I gladly cut up top of the line softboots for like 500$). From the description of the Yes Optimistic - keep in mind that the board still isn´t that wide (26.6cm in 157) - It’s wide. And wide is good. This allows you to ride the board up to 6cm shorter, giving you more maneuverability in the trees and easier spins in the air. Width also creates stability at speed and floatation in the deep that we used to associate with length. It also begs to be leaned-over as far as you dare on the groomers, which is fun as hell!

I just came across the 2017/18 Jones snowboards catalog. On the first double page you see Jeremy laying out an amazing frontside! And this is part of the text - These are the best turns I have ever made. For someone who has been snowboarding for the better part of thirty years, those are not words I thought I would say on a hardpack February day. Jeremy is riding a wide board. (Jones Storm Chaser) I could have written the same lines. After riding for 30 years I am having my best turns ever on wider boards. Just give them a spin if you haven't already. You might have the best turns of your life as well .

teach, those 45degrees I proposed on the backfoot aren't for everybody as I stated in the first post. And they shouldn't be! As variety makes life more interesting! If you have problems with your knees and you found a way around it then that is perfect! But from a pure performance standpoint it is an interesting angle and a good starting point for your alpine setup. The question of the narrow production softboots boards remains as you wonder yourself .

AcousticBoarder - I see your point and you are definitely right, but I don't think that wider boards are a. more difficult to ride and b. more fatiquing. Of course if you exaggerate the width you might have negative effects, but why should we do that? My point is - go out and try a little wider boards, alpine and softboots, and you might be surprised by the new possibilites! There is a lot of speculating and theory in this thread now, but I guess that some of those riders never really found out their perfect width by experimenting with different shapes. I still think that adding a centimeter or better two to the average production board, would better reflect our anatomy.

Wide enough? Not sure which model you are referring to, but I checked their whole range - their widest offering is a 26.6cm waist (some not too interesting middle range shape)!!! Going from my example in the first post this board would still be too narrow. As are most boards from all other brands ... About the Virus stuff - there is a small dedicated group which are having fun on those skinny boards. Nothing wrong with that! But for me snowboarding is also about "standing sideways" - this brings this special feeling. The Virus boards (most of them) are more like Skwals (which are also fun, but in a different way).

A picture to illustrate the kind of tilting angles I am talking about ... this wouldn´t be possible with most production boards (definitely with no Burton board from this season ). But that is where the fun is, no???

Wow!!! Really good stuff! Ryan, do you ever ride hardboots?

Of course I understand that! I still hope that manufactures will find a way to better accommodate the market. For example - 175 is a perfect allround length for carving and a lot of guys in my area love this size (next to their SL boards). Now in most ranges the 175 is the women's GS board. Despite the different flex (which doesn't seem to be too much of an issue for most riders), these boards are even narrower - 19cm. So the guys use ridiculous angles to adjust to the board width. It hurts just to watch them ...

It works for the racers, because in reality they are only using two shell sizes. I still think that even for racers a wider array of board widths would be advantageous. But for them going the custom route is not really a problem most of the time. It is still funny that guys with a US size 7 ride the same board width as the guys with US size 11 ... it can't be ideal for both, but they make it work, because it is the easiest way - just like most of the normal carvers. And every carver, who needs a bigger shell than the pros, should also ride a wider board! And that is what the production boards are made for as well (just look at their descriptions!). So the standard 20cm for male riders over and over again, doesn't cut it ...

Also the reason for this thread! Why is that so? For whom are the manufactures producing???

And that is exactly the point where most of us arrive at! But my opinion is that it needn´t be! That is the point of this thread! We are so used to avoiding boot out (especially on softboots) that we adopted our riding accordingly over the years. Which is pretty strange, no? I am slowly getting used to real carving feeling on my SG Soul 59XT. I have to relearn that it is possible to ride without bootout on a softboot board - totally crazy! My Korua Shapes are almost 27cm wide and my Jones Storm Chaser is 27.5cm. And I am size US9.

The picture doesn´t show much. We would need a picture from above right over the frontside and/or the backside edge. Yes, I am saying that 25cm boards can not be carved well, if your feet alone are 28cm long. How can they? Only if you limit yourself to mild tilting angles, you will have fun on such a board (setup). Now it seems that a lot of snowboarders (most?) don´t care for the carved turn. That is the only explanation that such narrow boards exist (and so many of them!). But this community here knows about carving and therefore I put out the question. Because after 30 years of snowboarding I still don´t get it and I was hoping for a good discussion. As the industry now embraces carving and the importance of the turn itself, the landscape will have to change. But will it? I can´t even fathom why it took so long ...

Rob Stevens - the 20/20 is a really interesting concept!!! Fortunately there are more and more options becoming available. I already mentioned the Korua brand. The shaper has a good knowledge of alpine snowboarding, so the boards are very versatile! And this year SG brought out the Soul 59 XT - an excellent choice for softboot carving! And there are many more! But still - the majority of boards have some pretty strange waist widths Apex Insider - you CAN get boot out with a size 10 on a 25cm board??? You have major boot out all the time!!! And how is a 26cm wide board going to change a lot, when your feet alone are 28cm long??? And why should a wider board be bad for carving??? It is the only way, if you really want to carve and have to use high tilt angles when the slopes get steeper. There is no way around it. Have you seen Ryan Knapton´s videos? Size US8.5 and a 31.2cm wide board and he rips the hell out of it!!!

Jack, you doubt me? I am really disappointed ... Haven't you followed the story of the Northwaves at all? Why do you think it took more than 15 years to rebuild them? They had to build everything up from scratch. That's why the whole project is so awesome!!!