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These boots were well loved. They have held up so well that really the only reason I'm replacing them is because I bought them when I was a junior in high school and I'm 28 now and have a real job and decided to treat myself to new boots this year after using these for 8 seasons over the course of 11 years. Shells are in original shape - ie they have not been blown or punched out. Burton is known for being on the narrow side, so if that's you, great, if not, you may want to get ye to the bootfitter. The shell is 29.5/30 and the liner is 30. These are not race boots, they are freecarving boots. They provide the response of the hardboot but don't go as far up your leg like some of the 4 and 5 buckle boots you can get these days. I have NEVER had a shin bang problem with these. I didn't even know what shin bang was until this year with my new boots. There is one minor crack (picture below) in the inside of the shell tongue on the left boot, but other than that, the only wear and tear is cosmetic. I really want to help someone get into carving with a pair of used boots that'll treat you as well as they did me. So make me an offer. If you just want the boots for parts, I guess I can respect that, but I'd love it if a newbie bought them. Minimum is only that I ask that your offer at least cover the shipping. I am in Washington state and would like to move these before I move back to New England in August. Email me at j dot christian dot amport at gmail dot com if interested.

you can still buy new [unused] Burton gear from Chris Klug www.klugriding.com he bought up all their factory surplus from the late 90's and up until they stopped producing race/carving gear a few years ago. So he has all that stuff new, but yeah, it's at least 5 years old.

Dude, you gotta have pics!! That's awesome.

Carvedog has a lot of good points about the affordability of regular lessons and the reality of how the mountains have to be tight about their leases, but I think what we're talking about here is the comparability of PRIVATE 1on1 lessons to freelance 1on1 coaching. I'm not an instructor, but I've volunteered to assist in Snowboard instruction for Burton's CHILL program before, but I also used to coach tennis and sailing and from an attention point of view, there is a world of difference between being in a group setting and having a personal teacher/tudor/coach all to yourself. No one is spending $8 an hour for private lessons. I don't care if you're a veteran senior citizen who is attending Montana State and lives at the foot of Big Sky. No one gets private lessons that cheap, so to compare the cost of a freelance private coaching to a mountain-based group lesson is missing the point. Personally, I think there's a couple other distinctions to make. Advanced coaching for someone who already knows how to snowboard and needs to take the next step vs. beginner lessons. Personally, I can understand ski areas being upset at freelancers teaching newbies under the radar. That has liability written all over it. Now, if the freelancer is certified in the same manner as the staff instructors from a free market point of view, there should be no problem. My concern would be that the beginner was being taught bad habits or incorrectly by the freelancer more than the business of the lessons themselves being competed for. I'm all for competition and if you are providing a service that is better quality or better priced than the mountain's, hey, that's the free market. But the point is also that unless there is a "special needs" issue, beginners don't really need private lessons, and with that in mind I think Carvedog is right that from a cost point of view, there probably isn't an advantage to going private as a beginner. So what we're really talking about is competing for 1 on 1 advanced lessons. I'm not sure how it works with other silimar things like golf or tennis where like if you belong to a club let's say, you HAVE to use the coaching that they have on staff or you go somewhere else. I don't think that's how it is. I mean, do all Olympic athlete's have to go to a place where their coach is an employee in order to train? I don't think so. I've never heard of a golf course being upset that a player goes and plays with their private coach with them instead of the staff pro. Maybe some uber private courses roll like that, but I would find it hard to believe that something as personal as a coaching/athlete relationship would be interfered with by a "you have to use our guy or you can't do that here" attitude. So basically what we're saying is that even if you are an Olympian, or a pro, your coach can't come on the mountain with you unless he's an employee, and the repercussions are getting banned from a mountain? That can't be right, that's retarded. Maybe that's why they have to train at "Olympic training facilities" because private places won't let them use their personal coaches on the premises. But that would be idiotic, so that's can't be it.

Orting, nice. My roommate is from Kapowsin. Love me some Scaleburger. Gotta get a rootbeer and peanut butter blend milkshake. SOO GOOD.

Too early for crystal you think?

Well, I'm going to Crystal on Sunday if anyone wants to put together a swarm of carvers. Takers?

Anybody down? I'm driving out from Seattle.

I just got the RSV's, took em down and got custom footbeds put in em. Haven't tried them yet, but they feel pretty good for the brief time i've had them on. I'm shooting to go to Crystal on Sunday and I'll let you know how they are. My old boots are the freecarve 97 Burton Boilers, so I'm expecting these to be WAY stiffer considering they go halfway up my leg. But I'm a big guy, like 6'-2", 250, so we'll see how they do.

In 11 years of hardbooting I don't think I've ever seen more than a couple other than me on a given day. late 90's at Killington mostly and small CT hills like Mohawk/Southington/Powder Ridge, 2001 i had a pass at Sugarbush, 2002 at Smuggs, and last year at Snoqualmie. I think I remember seeing a couple at Mt Ste Anne in Quebec when I was in high school back in like 97, and there were a couple at Jay Peak. Probably Quebecois. Usually I'd see one guy out of every 3 days and usually from the lift looking down. I don't think I've ever talked to another hardbooter in person since I took a lesson from one in 1993 at some small mountain, probably Brodie or Butternut or something. I don't remember. It was my second day on a snowboard ever. I still look at boots in the lodge, but I'm always the only one, and people think I'm a skier because they're not looking at the footprint, they just see buckles and assume. It was a lonely existence... before BOL.

That's interesting. To be honest I found moguls much easier in hardboots because of the response. Although high angles don't help. How long is your board that you instruct on? It might be that your board length or stiffness is impractical for working the tight channels of a mogul field. A little more flex and a shorter length seems to work better in my experience. A big long, stiff carver in big icey moguls with dug out ruts is like trying to steer a tractor trailer through city streets. You can do it, but it's a lot of work and not what I would call fun. The second year I lived in Vermont I forced myself to learn to deal with mogul fields on a snowboard. It takes some getting used to for sure, but it can be done, and you can get good at it and confident, but with a high speed GS race or carving board, it'll be tough.

Totally. If there was a mountain like that I would learn to telemark and buy a pass. And I'd be out of my 20 lbs of wet wool and into the hot tub with a mulled cider and a ski bunny at 4 o-clock. But there isn't. So I'm stuck here kvetching about it with you chaps because I can't enjoy a day on the mountain with my friends because of antiquated ideas about how a mountain should "feel" that put me on the outside of whatever their ideal is.

I understand how the co-op works and that they voted to ban snowboards, but you better believe that while the Co-op/mountain has an outward PR stance on "why they don't allow snowboards" on teh website, the voting members of the mountain are the ones responsible who made it happen for the same reasons segregation held on in the south for so long. The people who had the power wanted it that way for selfish reasons. Simple as that. And maybe its just me but I take it personally where they chose to draw the line. I don't buy the "historical ambience" line for a second. Why not no ski-skates (not that anyone uses those anymore anyway)? No bigfoots, no trick/freestyle skis, no parabolic carving skis? No lifts, no cants, no titanium poles? No Gore-tex, no polarfleece, and no neon colors or stupid jester hats. Why not make the whole mountain leather boots/metal telemark bindings on wooden skis only and you have to wear wool pants and knit sweaters? I've got your museum right here. It's an f-ing moutain covered in snow that is there for people to recreate on. There is NO REASON to discriminate how a person chooses to enjoy the mountain when they are clearly neither a danger to themselves or others. Back when mountains didn't understand the equipment, or stuff was homemade, or people were riding in workboots, I can understand them being hesitant to let people with unorthodox gear onto the lifts. But there is no excuse now. None. NONE.

I would say if you're not allowed to teach new snowboarders using hardboots, then all the ski instructors should have to teach on parabolics. BEcause the action of carving skis that they give beginners is actually physically different than the shushing they used to teach and that better skiers use - unlike the fact that a carving board does the exat same thign you are trying to teach beginners - except it is actually does what it is supposed to unlike flacid jibsticks. That's idiotic. I had a hardboot instructor when I was first starting out in softboots and if anything it taught me better form because it is more natural to weight your front foot with higher angles, so you can see what the instructor is doing and apply i more naturally. It drives me crazy when they set up beginners at 0-0 or duckfooted "so they can go fakie". Totally retarded. Tell them you're teaching them to snowboard first, they can learn to dick around in the park with their soft gear once you're done teaching them fundamentals and form.

The thing that sets at least MRG apart is the terrain. It is the only natural-terrain-only mountain in Vermont. They don't make snow and they don't groom. So if you want trees and tough terrain, it's where it is at as far as Vermont goes. So it kinda bothers me that they don't allow boarders jsut because there is no other mountain like it in Vermont. There are also no novices there. They are not a family mountain, they're not there to get you started. They there for people who want the challenge. That's why their stickers say "Ski it if you can". That's not a jab at snowboarders actually, even though it can and is often taken that way. The thing is that skiers don't see the difference between novice riders and advanced riders. Novice skiers stick to the bunny slope because they have to. They'd kill themselves on a black diamond. A novice snowboarder can go down black diamonds as soon as they can balance on an edge. So skiers see a rookie out there scraping the crap out of an otherwise advanced trail and they think all snowboarders do that. So MRG so far as I can tell is the biggest offender of the negative and outdated steroetypes about snowboarders. It's not a business decision about offering an alternative to individuals who want a skiers-only resort. They genuinely believe that snowboards ruin the snow for skiers. The other three, as far as I can tell, they are just offering an alternative to skiers who want to eat in an all-skier lodge and go to the bathroom in an all-skier bathroom use drinking fountains that only skiers can use, and have their skier kids play with other skier kids without... wait this all sounds familiar... I'm just saying if Martin Luther King jr. were alive, his kids would be snowboarders and he'd be telling them to poach the crap out of those uptight monkeys. What it does is by getting the skier-only mountains upset about it, it only points out how silly they are for being so upset about it. My old roommate is an annual season pass holder at MRG and he goes there not for the skiers-only schtick but for the terrain. But it is pain in the ass for him because a lot of his friends snowboard (myself included) and it means he has to ski alone for most of the season. And to be honest, without a park and the jibber crap for the softbooters, the only snowboarders who would go there are the kind looking for the terrain. So there's no reason for them to hold on to it. It's really dumb.

I've had a single set of burton race plates for 10 years and I've never had an issue. The only thing that wore out was the padded insert under the front foot because I used the softer of the two (yellow) and it just didn't hold up. I switched it out for the harder (red) and it's been fine. I still use yellow on the back foot and its fine. I'm about 6'-2" 250, so not for lack of putting them to the test. never broken a bail, never had any other problems. I used to ride Burton Boilers and I jsut got some new UPZ RSV's and the footprint is MUCh smaller on the UPZ's, but they fit the boiler MP 30's just fine. I probably had the M-L version of the 1997 model Race plates.

design wise, i think the arC is a little much. I think the phrase is more powerful visually if you use a consistent font. I was also thinking of doing something having to do with shovels. ALPINE CARVING NO SHOVEL REQUIRED! Here's some more. YOU RIDE. I'LL DRIVE. IF THERE WERE COPS ON THE MOUNTAIN, I'D HAVE SO MANY TICKETS... SAY IT WITH ME: AL-PINE SNOW-BOARD MY TAIL IS NOT A MAGIC CARPET. THANK-YOU

<!-- / message --><!-- controls --> Is there any other kind? Dude, paragon I am personally super stoked at your new acquisition. I bought an Oxygen Kr159 slalom in 1995 and when those FP's came in 97, 98 and 99 it's all I could do to sleep at night I wanted one so bad. They were like $500 min in those days and I think you got a hell of a deal stealing that thing for $160. It'll be worth every penny. Don't worry about the gear snobs on here. Your heart is in the right place and you'll get there. Those boots should treat you right too. I bought 97 Burton Boilers new in 96 and I just replaced them THIS YEAR and I'm still rocking my Burton race plates from the same year. So despite all the knocking on Burton stuff that these guys do, if you read the Carver's manual, it looks to me like a lot of the other brands for boots bindings and boards are higher maintenance and less reliable and have a ton of design quirks. My Burton stuff has always been reliable. Simple as that. Nothing has broken, worn out, or ever been cause for some kind of fancy rigging to get it to keep from coming apart. So don't sweat it. You're in great shape and will be for years to come if you take care of your gear.

I wear Smiths I bought about 10 years ago and they are holding up great. The only issue was when I tried to wear a hat that was too thick and blocked the top air vent foam. As long as they can flow they're good. I also have a pretty big bridge on my nose, so they work well. Some goggles like Bolle ride up my face because the bridge is too low and too shallow and don't fit. So make sure your goggles fit your nose well. Like shoes, some will fit some people better than others. Regardless of how expensive or fancy goggles might be, if they don't fit your face, they aren't worth wearing.

hey northcoast let me know when you're heading out next. I'm looking to check out a bunch of places this winter - Crystal, Baker, and some others I haven't been to yet. I've only been here a couple years and have only been to the Summit and to Stevens. It would be cool to head out with another carver. I'm itching to get my new boots on the snow too.

I herniated a disc in about... 2002 or so. It was a total bitch and I didn't ride the winter after it happened (due to being a broke ass student teacher, not because of the back), but I played a lot of raquetball that year and anything high impact totally flared up my back and set off my sciatic nerve all the way down my leg. It got to the point where I could barely tie my shoes, stand up, sit down, lie down, everything was painful. REALLY painfull. I got a ton of physical therapy and was on pain killers and all kinds of crap and nothing helped. I finally saw an orthopedist and basically he said to take it easy for 6 months and to stop doing things that irritate it. Anything high impact. That includes running, raquetball, basketball, tennis, horseback riding, anything that would be jarring to the spine. I took it easy and the daily pain that I lived with day in and day out is now gone. Granted, I don't run or do much except ride in the winter, but even the occasional jog or even a couple years ago I played a season of men's league lacrosse and it was fine for the most part. A little bit of sciatic pain the day after a game, but only for a day and not bad like it was when it first happened. Walking, hiking, fencing, (yes, I fence) have all been fine. And most importantly, snowboarding has been fine. So you may just have to suck it up and take it easy until your back calms down and then you can get back into things. It's not going to happen overnight though.

Here's a couple more for you: AND YET SKIING IN SOFT BOOTS WOULD SEEM STUPID. THANK YOU FOR NOT CUTTING UP MY TOPSHEET IN THE LIFTLINE... DICK. SOFT BOOTS ARE FOR WALKING AROUND THE LODGE. LACES ARE FOR FIGURE SKATERS. IF SHEEP COULD RIDE, THEY'D BE IN THE PARK. IF I LIKED A SLOPPY RIDE I'D BE AT YOUR MOM'S HOUSE. IF I WANTED TO SIT ON MY ASS PLAYING WITH LACES AND STRAPS I'D HAVE STAYED IN BED WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND THIS MORNING.

Do they also sell matching 1-peice racing suits and monoboards? I think I saw one of those guys at Mount Ste. Anne in Quebec circa 1996...

I've had my Burton race plates since 97 and have never had a problem or any compaints. I'm 6"-2", 240, so not for lack of crankin on them. They're the only hardboot bindings i've ever owned, so I don't have any frame of reference, but I have no reason to believe they won't continue to rock. The only thing that ever happened was I started with the yellow freeriding pad insert on the front foot and it got mangled from cranking on it. So I switched the from that to the harder red race pad and the back is still on the softer yellow on the adjustable cant plate and it's been fine.