what am i doing wrong on my heelside turns??

[DiveBomber]

what do i do with my butt??

I got the hanging my arm out/reaching for the front boot thing, i can feel how that gives the edge a bit more grip, and balance. But I still feel like im trying to put my but into the turn and only turning my shoulders.

My tail keeps sliding out, it feels like if i rotate my torso, the whole board wants to rotate.

and i feel like im too compacted, id like to be more upright, i cant really lay it down and can barely touch the snow with my hand.

I almost want to have my rear foot turned further forward than my front.

im riding at 57deg rear and what ever the next notch forward is on a catek OS1 on the front.

I hit this one super ICY patch and could barely stay up right, heelside edge slid out several times.

Im good on my toe side, i can carve back up the slope.

this is getting frustrating

[cb200]

"and can barely touch the snow with my hand"

Keep shoulders level, forget touching the snow. Don't pet the dog.

[DiveBomber]

level with the board? i cant tell if they are level or not, I kinda feel like i want to lean back a little bit, but then it seem like i cant counter balance and the edge doenst have as much grip. I want stand up more, kinda like on the toe side

[Neil Gendzwill]

Can you get us some video or at least a picture?

[DiveBomber]

Id really love to but ive never had anyone to hold a camera, let alone ride with, probably part of the reason i dont ride as much either.

[Steve Dold]

I had a problem where my board's tail would slide out during the transition to heelside, so that the heelside began as a skid and not a carve. I was rotating toward the nose during the transition to heelside, but the transition was so slow that the board would spend too much time flat and that's when my body would "unwind" some and the board's tail would kick out. It sounds like you are doing something similar.

Two things helped me: Riding a longer board (from a 163 to 172+), and getting the board switched from toe to heel edge much faster so that there was no time for the tail to skid out.

If you compare the difference between your heelside-to-toeside transition time and your toeside-to-heelside transition, you might find that the toe-to-heel takes a lot longer, as I did. Doing it faster took a lot of commitment and nerve, but it paid off. For some reason it was always easier for me to drop fast into a toeside than into a heelside. I'd chicken out and not commit to the heelside. I had to get past that, and afterwards my heelside got a lot better.

[sheffy]

Heelside does take alot longer to get dialed then toeside.....It took ALOT of runs for me to get it down...just give it time.....have you tried decreasing your angle on your rear foot.....i ride 57 front and 54 rear...personal preference(coiler 184 with cateks).....as soon i increase the angles...especially rear foot... my heelside goes to S H I T and i seem to lose all my power and blow outta my turns:mad:

[DiveBomber]

ok the last part of that ill try, but i think its sliding out in the middle of the turn. But i wasnt doing continuous caves i might do only one or 2 linked turns.

But yeah maybe a longer board would help becuase it feels lamost like ot board carves to hard. I usually carve all the way across the slope, to try to really feel the carve. I wish the slopes were twice as wide. cause i dont feel like catching an edge at mach 1

[DiveBomber]

Heelside does take alot longer to get dialed then toeside.....It took ALOT of runs for me to get it down...just give it time.....have you tried decreasing your angle on your rear foot.....i ride 57 front and 54 rear...personal preference(coiler 184 with cateks).....as soon i increase the angles...especially rear foot... my heelside goes to S H I T and i seem to lose all my power and blow outta my turns:mad:

well it almost feels like i want more angle in the rear, i dont know what that says. But right now alot of times i feel like im riding my heelside like i ride it on my freeride/softboot set up. I find it hard to put my butt behind me VS the way over on the heelside.

Maybe it would help to have lover angles, but i almost feel like i want more.

Plus I wear 29.5s

[BobD]

Which sounds wierd, but actually thinking this can stop you counter rotating and sitting on the toilet. It's your heelside hip that needs to go down to the snow. Then on toesides, thinking about getting your butt low helps.

On the carpet at home,get into your heelside position laying on the floor with the board inclined up near 90 degrees and legs flexed. Notice how if sit on both buttocks ala sitting on the can, the board flattens. Now, keeping your legs flexed, rotate your pelvis until you are resting on your heelside hip (your rear knee tucked behind the front one). The board should have become more inclined and as you reach for your front boot, you should feel your ribs pinch against your toeside hip. The hard thing is to hold that position through the turn and not unwind half way through.

In the photo below, I'm rising at the end of the turn, but still holding the body position to retain the board inclination. Only my head rotates to look into the next turn.

BobD

[roman]

give more pressure on the nose when you start the turn, rotate your hips the same your shoulders should and watch up the mountain. this always helped my scoolers.

[surfinsmiley]

I just go back to the little green slopes and start trying to feel the carves at the minimum speed possible. Then move to the next faster level.

It just makes it easy to deal with the fear factor of commiting to the turns.

I`m at the level now where I can do carves really well at slow to medium speeds 100% of the time,but sometimes it just all goes down the toilet when I`m on the steeps and so.......... back to easy slopes until it comes good again.

[bobdea]

says to to

I would do giant hill crossing GS turns that were at a low enough speed that I was very close to coming off balance

on the particlular trail I used to do this on it got narrower and steeper near the bottom so I was hamming turns out by the time I got to the lift but at the start I was making super slow turns using a the whole width of a trail that is about 100 ft wide

this was on a big ol' GS stick so don't expect to make arcs that big on a smaller board but the the same thing will work on a smaller board just at lower speeds

that exercise really did wonders for my riding though, super cool feeling too

[cb200]

level with the board? i cant tell if they are level or not, I kinda feel like i want to lean back a little bit, but then it seem like i cant counter balance and the edge doenst have as much grip. I want stand up more, kinda like on the toe side

Shoulders level with the slope. Try to drive your rear hand forward through the turn. An exercise is to try and touch your toeside edge while making a heel side turn (at a lower speed please). Fall down 10 times get up 11.

[Istvan]

My 2 cents: just don't push your butt out, rather try to rotate with your upper body to the direction you are turning. What also helps: turn your head towards where you wanna go.

If you still want to touch the snow, then don't focus on touching it with only your left palm (in case you are regular), because then you'll end up reaching for the snow and pushing your butt out.

Instead try to touch the snow with both palms - that will help you with the proper rotation. Don't try to touch the snow behind your butt, reach a bit more forward to the tip. It'll help.

Cheers,

István

[Holmes]

For asking the question and the responses. I was trying to figure out the same thing...but I didn't know exactly what wasn't in place. It felt like more skidding than my toe edge, also my front leg seemed to be straightening out. From reading this thread I think I am "unwinding in the turn" Know I think I have some stuff to focus on, And I love the advice for the lay down living room training! Muscle memory before the snow=more fun on the snow. My fiancee already thinks I am obsessed, know she will have more proof as i go flailing arond on the carpet locked into my new favorite toy. Ill let you guys know how this stuff works for me. Cant't wait to try the touching the snow with both hands thing. I have a feeling that getting the hip to the snow feels about 1000 times better than the but, and it all feels extremly cool.

Question? Hos does stance width affect the ease of learning this. I am 6'2" with a 33 in. inseam running 55 deg. front and rear at 19 5/8 in stance width 3 deg. front toe lift, and 3 deg. rear heel lift on a 173 Nidecker with 0s2's. Thanks!

[BobD]

Quote. "Question? Hos does stance width affect the ease of learning this. I am 6'2" with a 33 in. inseam running 55 deg. front and rear at 19 5/8 in stance width 3 deg. front toe lift, and 3 deg. rear heel lift on a 173 Nidecker with 0s2's. Thanks!" Holmes

If the rear binding angle is too low, it's hard to angulate on heelsides, especially to tuck that rear knee in. At the same time a lower angle feels more comfortable when you have to skid a turn. It's different for different people. My magic # is 60 degrees, below that I have trouble angulating, but many people look great great at lower angles.

BobD

[tpalka]

My magic # is 60 degrees, below that I have trouble angulating, but many people look great great at lower angles.

Indeed -- just look at Scott Firestone's pictures of the PureBoarding crowd, they ride a very low back angle (25-30) and look great.

I have been riding 65/60 and 55/40, and haven't found much difference on the heelside. The steeper the angles the more I can use my ankles in the turn initiation (both heel and toe), but once I'm in the turn I'm putting a more of my weight on the front foot. So it feels like the back angle doesn't make that much difference once I made the transition. Just my 2 cents.

tom.

[David Glynn]

The advice on your right hand (regular stance) is good. The point of that is to square your stance up to the board. As an exercise at home support yourself on your left hand while leaning over in a carving stance as if you were laid out in a heelside carve. While doing this move your right hand back toward the tail of your imaginary board and then note the position of your hip it should be into and near the floor; now take your right hand and move it forward toward the front of the board and squaring your shoulders to the board and note the position of your hip. Your hip should now be squared up to the board and up away from the floor and over your board if not try it again with a little muscular tension through your mid section.The point is to get the hand to bring the shoulder to bring the hip. Those few inches of difference are crucial to holding a heelside edge.

Also the advice of more weight on your front foot is good. I like to initiate my heelsides with more weight on my front foot and then finishing the turn with my weight centered over both feet. When you think about this it makes sense because the mid point between our heels is further back on the board than the mid point between our toes. So if we want our heelsides to feel like our toesides we have to be a little more forward weighted on our heelsides to make up for the difference . Between these two things your heelsides will become locked on but it will take a little practice. And it's like others have also said COMMIT to those heelsides. After a while you may like them better than your toesides.

[Holmes]

Watching the Sharks Oilers game...tryin' the new Anchor Steam Bock..and 64 deg front, and 60 degree rear at 191/2. This feels like an attacking position. On the carpet at least...tried my old stance first and it felt like "no mans land" I was more tempted to try and push on the boot backs, and could't really feel the ankles involved. Hip down shoulders square pinching the right hand hip feels powerful and locked! Stoked for the advice...anyone need surf tips?

[Guest WC Rider]

If the tail of the board is skidding out mid-turn, it could indicate that you're putting too much weight on the back foot...

"My tail keeps sliding out, it feels like if i rotate my torso, the whole board wants to rotate. " - rotate which way? tail skid out? perhaps you're putting weight onto the back foot...

"I almost want to have my rear foot turned further forward than my front. "

- if you feel like something would help, try it... everything here is just a guideline and what's worked for other people... experimentation and experience will work much better than what you read online

" want stand up more, kinda like on the toe side" - the heelside and toeside are inherently different... one does not and should not feel like the other

pictures would help a lot, tho I know they're difficult to arrange...

good luck with those heelsides

[Gleb]

i'm a newbie to carving and what i found out that really really helped my heelside is to put a cant on your rear foot. This was suggested to me by a few people. This helped force my rear knee more into the heelside turn, which forces the board's edge in. Plus, as mentioned above, it kept me from applying too much force directly down onto the board.

Its frustrating but well worth the effort. I remeber my first day when I was able to confidently link all my turns together and see my tracks all over the trails. I was in heaven:D

edit: as cb200 said, don't reach for the snow at all. That will come with time. Also, i was told by many people that draging your hand in the snow can be a bad habit because you can twist your elbow/shoulder if you hit some ice chunks, aka death cookies.

[DiveBomber]

ok so i tried the tiwisitng a bit more but this time on a longer board (173 vs 162) and some times it worked some times it didnt. I found it hard to square my shoulders with the board. If i tried to reach for the inside edge with my outside hand it seemed to work sorta, but i still felt like i was trying to sit down, like my lower torso wasnt square with the board even when my shoulders were

It still feels like i want to pull my rear foot around