Bode can't avoid controversy!!!

[patmoore]

Now he's accusing Lance Armstrong of taking drugs. What is he thinking????

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13723673.htm

[willywhit]

Pat, r u kiddin' me??!! Bode LOVES controversy. Listen to his show on Faction 28 on Sirius radio. He's a howl. It's about time someone stood up to the "powers that be" and had something relavent to vent about. GO BODE GO ! http://www.nike.com/joinbode/index.jsp http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13726469.htm

[Justin A.]

I love listening to Bode on sirius. When he first went on the air I thought it was going to be him acting like a tool. Turns out he is a tool, but its at least funny. He should still just shut up and Ski.

________

Vapir One Review

[willywhit]

shut up and ski ? what fun would that be ?

[skatha]

Bode....what could be if he ever developed the discipline of Lance?

As for Lance, he's a Texan too so I got his back...no way he's used drugs. A cancer survivor isn't going to run the chance of screwing up his second chance at life.

[bobdea]

from what I can tell to be competitive in that sport you HAVE to dope because everyone else does, like being a world class body builder without the 'roids

I could be way off base but it seems like everyone is up to the same game and Lance still dominates, thats what's important

[kipstar]

if we are talking about performance enhancing, the the likely thing for cyclists is EPA I think it is, which increases red blood cells and that makes more oxygen go to the muscles.... Steroids for cycling aren't so useful, it is a weight vs. power sport, and extra weight is a massive penalty in the mountains.

But I am not so sure that he did even take that.

He had a TON of innovations in his training - he also didn't do lots of races, so he could structure everything around one massive race a year (which is different to many of his predecessors). He had a great team to carry him as far as they could, after which his dedication and training came through. He also was more 3D rider than his challengers like the pirate who was climber and the Richard V guy who was not so good in the mountains.

My dad had cancer for 11 years (diagnosed to die in 6 months); if you got the will to survive that, you got the will to survive and succeed somewhere else. Lance was already a great cyclist, but I think he got tougher from the cancer.

And I suspect he found legal versions of performance enhancing substances; like triathaletes around here used to do 6 cups of coffee right before a race on sprint tris; amatuers like me can still do it. Only gets illegal when they get around to banning and testing for it; up to then it is fair game to do.

Lance is a legend; an inspiration. I like to believe he did it all legally. Of course, he would be one of only a few not on juice I think.

[tilledog]

lance admitted using it AFTER the operations

He did? When?

He's just a stud. There's no proof he's on anything. Who trains harder, right now? No one.

EPO....Erithropoyetin

Raises the oxygen carrying capacity in RBC's.

[Kent]

Not sure if you guys caught it...but on Lance's weekly show, he joked about it by saying "Who is Bode Miller" along with some other humor.

As for EPO and drugs use....according to Steve Hed (a friend of mine), he thinks the biggest problem in cycling is anorexia, not EPO. However, it's certainly no lie that blooding doping, EPO or anyway of increasing red blood cell count (oxygen in your blood) is on the rise...and has been since the USA Cycling mishap back inthe 80s.

With that said, there are MANY ways to LEGALLY increase your red blood cell count (drink lots of water, altitude tent, etc) and some people are genetically more gifted. As we all know, Lance is "made" for cycling...from his femurs, to his back.....and to his very abnormal threshold for pain.

Cycling is a sport of pain...

Anybody who has survived chemo understands that. For Lance to surive cancer AND be a World Champ speaks volumes.

EPO use can not be traced. The assumption is that if your red blood cell count is over X (50%?), they just assume its abnormal (not human) and you're automatically guilty.

However, it's not exactly illegal to use EPO, its illegal when you get caught. To understand what its like to get caught, you need to understand how the test are administered. It's such a shame. The proper answer is "we just don't know"........read below to understand.

You MUST be on something to remain competitive. Looks at the stats.....

>>>>>>>>>

In 1999 you didn't need to worry about surprise out-of-competition tests for

EPO, nor did you have to administer microdoses to stay under the radar. You

brought your hematocrit up to your desired target level with twice- or

thrice-weekly shots, and kept it there with a weekly maintenence dose. You

don't even need Dr. Ferrari's advice to tell you this - it's printed in the

package.

Weekly maintenance today, and supposedly in 1999 (if subjected to today's

tests), will result in a positive identification for synthetic EPO within a

three- to four-day window. The rest of the week will show up as a negative.

Same thing the following doped week. If one was tested every day of the

week, you may get four of seven positives, or roughly a 57 percent hit rate

on a weekly doper.

In a three-week race, three weekly maintenance injections would be easy to

spot if we had the dates of the failed controls. Any sort of pos, pos, neg,

neg, neg pattern repeated on a weekly basis would confirm such a doping

schedule.

For Lance to use the fact that not all of his samples tested positive as

proof of his innocence is a smokescreen for the uninformed.

I just read that 70 samples from the 1998 Tour were tested, and that 40 came back positive. Forty out of 70? Say- that's 57 percent. What a surprise.

[Guest rphillips]

What time is Bode on Faction?

[willywhit]

What time is Bode on Faction?

http://www.radiofaction.com/hosts/bodemiller.htm There's a great podcast you can download where Bode talks in depth about doping, etc.

[Sinecure]

Willy, where is that podcast link on that page? I didn't see it. I also searched iTunes and didn't see any podcasts by Bode.

[willywhit]

http://www.radiofaction.com/podcasts/podcast.htm

[Gleb]

I personally think that bode is stiring up controversy just to stay in the spot light. I believe lance did it drug free. His team was unbelievable and he trained more than anyone else hands down. I used to keep up with the cycling alot back in my peak days, i was able to ride for hours.

[Gecko]

as part of his chemo course...most people who have chemo get EPO as part of the treatment. The thing about Chemo is that in fundamentally alters the body's chemistry...couple that with the fact that Lance continued to train (all be it only on rollers) through out his cancer treatment and it is likely that his body chemistry changed permanantly. It's obvious that he lost a great deal of upper body muscle mass during that time while retaining his lower body strength and muscle. This more than anything else may explain the difference in the pre/post cancer Lance.

[Gleb]

its a good thing he lost much of his upper body muscle. He used to be a triathlete and in cycling, having wide shoulders, big arms and what not, is a disadvantage.

[Kent]

its a good thing he lost much of his upper body muscle. He used to be a triathlete and in cycling, having wide shoulders, big arms and what not, is a disadvantage.

Come again?

[Mark.Andersen]

I think the Gleb has a valid point.

Trackies are to Stage Racers as Half Pipers are to GS Racers. It's a different sport, even if it isn't.

I wonder who'd win a wrestling match between Lance and Marty N. ?

[skatha]

"Chemo" is not some blanket term...

Antibiotics are "chemotherapy"-a chemical used in therapy. We just select metabolic pathway toxins dangerous to bacteria.

As for cancer chemotherapy, not all are myelotoxic and cause blood cell deficits, but I do think Lance was an a myelosuppressive agent with his particular "cocktail", so he did get epo there.

Epo is not a benign drug. Unlike probably everybody here, I have prescribed it in the course of my practice.

It's painful to take-it causes marrow pain-a deep bone pain in your hips, back and legs

To an extreme, it causes increased blood viscosity and that's important to those small vessels found in your heart and brain. EPO abusers run an increased risk of stroke and myocardial infarction. I'm just saying, somebody who nearly died probably is not going to do anything that would cause him to drop dead racing, e.g., not following Mario Panini's lead...

Lance was one of the firsts that followed serum lactate levels in his training-no lactate= no muscle fatigue. Low lactate levels are a function of minimizing your anaerobic work and maintaining your circulation. Somebody with thick blood and reduced capillary perfusion will have high lactate levels, not low

[Gleb]

Come again?

Having that much arm muscle is only neccessary for mt. biking. For a stage cyclist, every ounce of muscle they have that they actually don't need slows them down, tremendously. The tour de France ends with a 23 km climb, after 3 weeks of racing. On a climb like that, an extra pound could slow someone down by 30 seconds. Thats 30 seconds spread over an hour or even several hours, but nonetheless, significant.

Also, Lance has a rare condition that I have slight resemblences of. He is able to use more of the oxygen that he takes in. It came useful to him in cycling, for me it was wrestling.

Skatha, were you a nuclear medicine major? many of my friends in my school are studying the same stuff you just described.

[skatha]

Sorry, MD here......

I also tutored physiology in med school....

I could have gone into metarteriole shunting in sepsis and metabolic acidosis as a model for my argument, but I would have bored the socks offa everybody

[Gleb]

Sorry, MD here......

I also tutored physiology in med school....

I could have gone into metarteriole shunting in sepsis and metabolic acidosis as a model for my argument, but I would have bored the socks offa everybody

oooo...ya you defintly could've gotten into that...but i almost lost interest by the end of that sentence:sleep: actually, all of that really interests me alot, its just way way over my head for now.

[Kent]

Having that much arm muscle is only neccessary for mt. biking. For a stage cyclist, every ounce of muscle they have that they actually don't need slows them down, tremendously. The tour de France ends with a 23 km climb, after 3 weeks of racing. On a climb like that, an extra pound could slow someone down by 30 seconds. Thats 30 seconds spread over an hour or even several hours, but nonetheless, significant.

QUOTE]

Not really....aero trumps weight as nearly 85% of your energy directly goes toward fighting wind resistance (rather than propelling you forward). Going uphilll obviously changes that %, but LA is FAR from being the lightest rider in the peloton.

You also need to remember that LA was World Champ in 1993....the same year he claimed his 1st TdF Stage Win.

Yep...LA was made for cycling, from his femur, his back, his heart....but mostly his brain. Cycling is a sport of pain and there's no doubt LA's threshold is well beyond his competitors. In my post above, the use of PEDS is moot. It's widespread....everyone uses them in the Pro peloton.

So...regardles of his actual use, the playing field is equal.

[Gecko]

not since the days of Eddie Mercx has an athlete who won the Worlds been a threat for the tour and vice versa. LA is no exception...he wasn't a Tour rider of note until AFTER cancer did it's remodel on his body. A Tri-Geek is a lousey Tour Rider if they are trying to contend the overall...though they could be strong as a sprinter and if one coud bend well enough a timetrialer (good morning Mr Armstrong) but they carry too much upper body mass (used for swimming) to be a noteable stage racer. While I'm not saying that cancer was a good thing for LA but the illness did contribute to the remodel his body. The new Post Cancer LA was a much more physically capable cyclist than than before Cancer.

[Kent]

Cough, cough.....so Greg Lemond wasn't a threat when toggling his TdF wins and World Championships...AND his comeback? I would argue Cipo might come in a close 2nd, or not. :lol:

There are certain specific disciplines in cycling, but I'm confused by "The new Post Cancer LA was a much more physically capable cyclist than than before Cancer"

Hogwash. LA is a made for TdF cyclist. As much as he wanted (or so claimed) to win a classic, he couldn't/didn't. Now...there's not much doubt in my mind that he could if he REALLY wanted to...as he's proven to be the most focused athlete of our time. But saying he's more physically capable implies he's a jack of all trades.

My post above with the France beefcake was that cyclists come in all different shapes and sizes.

Here's a few lists of things LA might want to try now that Sheryl kicked him out:

RAAM

1 Hour Record (he already backed out once)

Olympic Gold - TT or road.....hell, why not track

CX National Champs

Ironman (this one has been beaten to death in the tri magazines) - In a nutshell, it would probably be a photo finish, but LA can't hang on the run...it would be close if he rode a 4:15 bike and had a half-ass'd 55-60 min swim. LA could only (according the CC) muster up a 3:05-3:10 marathon at IM.