Pumping to accelerate?

[quest4powder]

I've heard about 'pumping' transitions in the halfpipe and recently rode with some carvers who spoke of pumping the flats to accelerate. It seems hard to believe that you can generate speed on a flat surface without anything to push off.

My question is, can you accelerate on the flats by pumpng? If you can, exactly how do you do it?

Thanks for your thoughts.

________

Krissy

[RicHard]

I think it's something like what you do when you are a children and you want to accelerate the swinging-chair (which would it be the right word in english?!?!) without touching the ground.

Also there, you don't have any "evident" (but physics can explain it) point that you can push on, but you can accelerate your chair!

[bobdea]

on washboard thats about it, unless I have totally missed out on something

[lonerider]

I've heard about 'pumping' transitions in the halfpipe and recently rode with some carvers who spoke of pumping the flats to accelerate. It seems hard to believe that you can generate speed on a flat surface without anything to push off.

My question is, can you accelerate on the flats by pumpng? If you can, exactly how do you do it?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Think of it like "scooting" yourself forward on a chair without using your feet, by weighting the board for a moment so it sticks to the ground and then using that momentary friction to swing yourself forward.

[surfinsmiley]

I might be dreaming but........... It`s really easy to do on a skateboard, I think the same principle can be applied to a snowboard.

(Halfpipes are the easiest places to get speed but totally different technique.)

You have a really big sharp long edge to push off.

Use your legs and body in one action to flex the board as much as possible and then let the decambering of the board turn into forward motion transfered through your edge.

Repeat on the opposite edge.

Just like a slamon action but with lots of extra push/pull of the board and good skill with the edge work. Think, figure eight belly dancing.

IMHO, it works simply because I can zoom past people that were going the same speed as me when we hit the flats.

I`m not good enough to really know! But it seems to work for me.

----

Have you got a long skateboard? (Borrow one?)

If you have, go and practice on that and then see if you can pull it off on the snow.

[Phil]

There was an interesting thread about this on a ski forum recently:

http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=32654

[sic t 2]

oh, it works extraordinarily well. its really pull-PUSH though (not to be confused with extreme carving PUSH-pull). and also not to be confused with a series of quick turns (like on your basement floor with a skateboard).

pumping:

as you approach an irregularity in the slope (a sudden rise-fall with a duration of say 10 feet) just pull your legs in on the climb and then as soon as you clear the peak push as hard as you can on the downside. you will quickly accelerate away from anyone near you. its most efficiently executed when riding ptex flat (and dead straight) and when there are a quick series of these slope features in a row.

parks and boardercross tracks usually create these slope features (rollers) on entrances to the park itself or on on approaches to big hits. think of it as a throttle. once in them you just "roll it on" by pumping (pulling-pushing) on the rollers. however, it also most effective with shallow soft boot angles where your legs are in a more efficient position for full, powerful flexions.

it is exhausting though since it takes a really great PUSH to generate speed and it generates so little you really need to execute it at least 3 successive times to really feel some extra wind in your face.

credits to my park rat kids though for teaching me this stuff many moons ago.

sic

[Steve Dold]

It seems plausible that you could think you are accelerating through a turn by downweighting the edge and tightening the turn, because of the the coriolis effect :D

[Guest jschal01]

just note that half of the responses here are focused on pumping terrain features and half on pumping off of the turn/edge itself, two related but separate things. Both exist, though imo most people do end up scrubbing more speed than they gain when trying to pump the turns themselves.

[Guest owaysys]

OK, so physics tell us that friction is directly related to surface area. If you stay on your edge, you're going to move faster than you would if you were flat on your base. So if you're riding, say, a cat track, and you want to go faster, then stay on your edge by make a lot of quick edge changes. you'll go faster than if you flat on your base.

[Slim]

OK, so physics tell us that friction is directly related to surface area. If you stay on your edge, you're going to move faster than you would if you were flat on your base. So if you're riding, say, a cat track, and you want to go faster, then stay on your edge by make a lot of quick edge changes. you'll go faster than if you flat on your base.

Is this true? I've always heard that edges glide on snow slower than base material and the mantra to ride flat for speed as base is faster than edge. Isn't that what downhill skiers do on flat sections of a downhill course?

[NateW]

Seems to me that unless you're on ice, riding an edge means cutting a groove in the snow, which eats your speed. If I want to go fast, I keep the base flat and follow the fall line as much as possible. Carving is faster than skidding, but flat ptex is faster than pointy steel.

Pumping bumps definitely works, as SicT2 described. No question.

I've had no luck pumping carves on a snowboard, but that might just be me (I'm no good at it on a skateboard either if I stick to carved turns (picking up the front truck makes it easy though)).

[tufty]

Seems to me that unless you're on ice, riding an edge means cutting a groove in the snow, which eats your speed. If I want to go fast, I keep the base flat and follow the fall line as much as possible. Carving is faster than skidding, but flat ptex is faster than pointy steel.

Depends if your base is in good nick or not. Unwaxed base and / or wet snow, and you're looking at grinding to a halt in very short order unless you run on the edges.

Ditto very cold snow - the way you reduce the modulus of friction is by applying pressure to the snow and making it melt, when it's really cold you need to apply a lot of pressure, so running on the edges will, I believe, make you run faster (running on the base in such conditions just leaves a bunch of sharp ice crystals grinding the wax off your base)

Pumping bumps definitely works, as SicT2 described. No question.

I've had no luck pumping carves on a snowboard, but that might just be me

I think it's a question of technique. I have to admit I'm not terribly good at it myself, but it can and does happen - remember, every time you make a carved turn you are accelerating, just perpendicular to the direction of travel.

Simon

[Baka Dasai]

I can accelerate on the flats by pumping. On a skateboard. I haven't made a concerted effort to try it on a snowboard. The theory is the same and the technique is the same, but I suspect that a bent board cutting through the snow creates much greater friction than wheels rolling over asphalt.

Also, pumping a skateboard usually involves throwing your upper-body around, which might make you skid out if you tried it on a snowboard.

But I'm prepared to believe that it's possible.

[Michael_A]

Look at any good pro surfer video and you'll see them pumping all the time. it's the way they accelerate on the face of the wave and allows them to do manuevers that ordinary mortals can't come close too. A good longboarder will pump occasionally too to pick up speed on the face of the wave.

Michael

[ARCrider]

I can accelerate on the flats by pumping. On a skateboard. I haven't made a concerted effort to try it on a snowboard. The theory is the same and the technique is the same, but I suspect that a bent board cutting through the snow creates much greater friction than wheels rolling over asphalt.

Also, pumping a skateboard usually involves throwing your upper-body around, which might make you skid out if you tried it on a snowboard.

But I'm prepared to believe that it's possible.

Its more than possible to pump the board like a skateboard. I've seen it done. I once saw a kid on some flats take off from zero speed with some short pumps on his board. Looked like a snow spider. You have to be one with your board. He's a little older now and training with national team.

I've never attempted it on the flats from zero speed but I'd like to believe that at times I've managed a similar technique while riding. I saw a fellow racer doing a double arm pump to finish some final gates in a GS race. He had the fastest times of the day. If you can push yourself downhill from your loaded edge you can contribute to gravity.

[Guest]

I pump every day I ride, both on flats and in turns. It's how I'm able to go faster than all my friends both on skis and boards on catwalks. It's how you are able to build pressure in turns and fly out of them and it's a key aspect of racing.

Oway- Base is faster than edge. It's why when racing GS flat base transitions are faster than quick edge changes. Yes, more surface area creates more friction, but in skiing/boarding that's exactly what you want. The more friction, the more water melted underneath your board and the easier it glides. That's why for colder weather you use a brass brush to finish your board: rougher surface = more friction and more water under your base.

[LambertoMI]

Pump technique is great. When we used to ride asym boards with the wild body tossing action pumping came natural. The extra compression in the board literally threw you out of turns. On a warm day with heavy deep ruts, pump a turn, lean back and watch the nose of your board ride out of the end of the carve.

I used to love the "kick" that came out of those turns. You can literally hope from one line to the next. We used to measure a board and a half length between oposite carves. Not sure how practical it is, but wow, what a feeling.

Plus it frightens the skiers!!!

LOL:lol:

[quest4powder]

Thanks for the responses. I've seen BX competitors do this over rollers and can understand pumping through terrain changes.

I'm still unclear as to how to do it in turns--if you are a 'pumper' could you please explain how/where in the turn you flex and where you extend your legs. Do you throw/rotate the upper body as well? Anything else that would help a newbie to do it?

Anyone have any vids that clearly show this pumping?

Thanks.

________

perfect tits Webcams

[Baka Dasai]

Anyone have any vids that clearly show this pumping?

For skateboarding, there's a bunch here.

This is one of my favourites. Love the Control Machete.

Another good one.

[trikerdad]

At Shasta, there's a long, flat, get back that I pump all the time. It's kind of like making jump turns except you push a little earlier in the turn, transfering the energy into forward motion. It doesn't seem to work in all conditions, probably because of loss to friction in soft or wet snow.

[surfinsmiley]

I`m so stoked to hear that I`m not just imagining things when I pump my snowboard. With what everyone has said I now have faith that what I`m doing is, in some way helping to gain speed or at least decreasing speed loss.

My advice for learning is to get a long skateboard. The Loaded Vangaurd is an excellent choice if your looking to buy one.

The technique is far easier to learn/practise on a skateboard and then take the new found skills to the snow.

On the snow I`d say the a torsionally soft board is going to give you the best feedback, to let you know if your doing it right and then once you can do that, start on the "race" board.

[Gleb]

OK, so physics tell us that friction is directly related to surface area. If you stay on your edge, you're going to move faster than you would if you were flat on your base. So if you're riding, say, a cat track, and you want to go faster, then stay on your edge by make a lot of quick edge changes. you'll go faster than if you flat on your base.

you have to take into consideration the pressure per area aswell. If it were a perfect world, you would travel the same speed on edge as you would on the base. (pressure/area) but staying on your base would defintly make you go faster. I know there is some physics with the bend of the board if your doing gates that can actually help you accelerate but i will have to do more research on that. (I love physics)

[LambertoMI]

Lot of great information here!

In order to "pump" a turn here is my old asym school technique. With medium speed enter into a normal hs or ts turn. start to turn the board over on edge. As the board starts to flex and bend this starts your turn, lean over appropriately and as you feel the pressure on your knees build, lower yourself towards the board. Midturn, under a full squatted stance, start to straighten you legs. This moves your body towards the center point of your turn. as you come out of the turn allow the built up force to "throw" your body up as the camber of the board snaps. This can launch you out of each carve and into the next.

You almost have to try this out to feel how it works. Find a riding partner who has done this. It also helps to lay your body over and touch the snow as you go by. This helps you just wash out a carve in case it fails. Often times while doing these under the lift lines, I will push out of my carve about 40-50 feet. No pain, just fun.

Here is a great video set. long download, but the three minutes show exactly what we are talking about! Try each link but the ver1 mpg is what you want.

http://www.alpinecarving.com/ovid.html

ver1.wmv

Best luck with it.

[Guest toddflyingdog]

There is really only one guy in the world to watch do this on plates...

Jacee Jay has this dialed in perfect. For the most part though you can pump all the features more smoothly in softies.