What's a Good Camera?

[crackaddict]

So...  Anyone who has seen my videos from this season knows I need a real camera.  They were all shot on phones or gopro or insta360 X2 and I'm not getting the quality I want.

I'll buy an insta360 X3 next year for sure, but I also want another video camera for fixed position shots.  Can I make videos with super slo-mo and crisp picture like the examples below without spending a fortune or carrying a huge pack?  What's out there?  What should I look for in a camera and how much do I need to spend?

And:

 

[philw]

The X3... has the same nominal res as the X2. I don't think there's a sensible option which will give a 4k crop at this point. You get 1080p from the x3, albeit it's a lot better than the earlier 360 cameras I used. Old GoPro 4k footage still beats anything I can get from the x3, as you'd expect. 

What you can do is to "up res" it with something like Topaz AI, which is what I did with this one below. That, in my humble opinion, is about as it's going to get from cropping into a 5.7k 360.

These small sensor cameras seem to work best in good light.

If you have a separate person holding the camera, of course you can always look at a proper mirrorless camera - I have a Sony and obviously it takes way better stills and also video than you can get from a cropped 360 camera. You can go crazier... but you have to carry it around.

Look for a decent sized sensor with ability to extract high data rate. You can work out the frame rate you need for slow motion (although you can get some of that from "ai" software too). You don't really need interchangeable lenses for 3rd person shooting snow - a mid range zoom covers the bases in practice.

One thing worth bearing in mind is that services like Vimeo transcode whatever you upload and you lose quality there (at least for the free services).

You probably want to shoot raw, process in ProRes or something uncompressed, output as H.265.

 

[pokkis]

Do you look for 360 cam you ride with or can you can shoot other riders?

Any way after processing is main part of flow anyway.

Edited April 25, 2023 by pokkis

[crackaddict]

3 minutes ago, pokkis said:

Do you look for 360 cam you ride with or can you can shoot other riders?

Definitely 3rd person shooting, the selfie videos just don't capture the carving the way I like.

@philw's video above is actually quite excellent for a selfie stick vid, but when I see selfie carving video I can't see the rider's body position or the terrain properly.  Generally, I find these boring, repetitive and sometimes even a little nauseating to watch.

I'll look into Topaz AI, thanks.  I might also need a better computer...

 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Curious, for the phone footage are you using one of Apple’s recent “Pro” models like the 13/14 Pro? 

It’s a practical suggestion, but I’m seeing some really impressive professional action footage from those phones. I have the 13 Pro myself and I’ve been really impressed by how much better it is than my older 11, although I’m not super techie and don’t do any type of post-processing or anything. 

[pokkis]

8 minutes ago, crackaddict said:

Definitely 3rd person shooting, the selfie videos just don't capture the carving the way I like.

@philw's video above is actually quite excellent for a selfie stick vid, but when I see selfie carving video I can't see the rider's body position or the terrain properly.  Generally, I find these boring, repetitive and sometimes even a little nauseating to watch.

I'll look into Topaz AI, thanks.  I might also need a better computer...

 

If you dont want carry anything big, like me, i would propose Sony RX100 MK7. Fits in pocket but works like charm for shots or 4K film.

[nextcarve]

As a cheaper, but a bit less portable alternative to the Sony RX100 mk7, you could also go for the SONY ZV-E10 in the kit. It has interchangeable lenses and a bigger sensor and is therefor a bit better in low light conditions than the RX100.
Regarding slow motion the limit for both is 120 fps @ FHD. This is where most smartphones surpass photo cameras, reaching up to 960 fps.

[st_lupo]

I second giving Topaz a try.  Another thing to keep in mind is that YouTube absolutely destroys certain video formats (I'm looking at you 1080/24).  Converting to 60fps seems to get handled by a better set of transcoders/parameters at YT.

Filming with 360 cams and reframing to 1080 always leaves a crappy ish result.  I only use the 360 module on my Insta360 one rs for certain shots, but the video is sooo much better with the 4k module.

[philw]

My laptop will handle Topaz, but it works way, way better on my desktop. As it doesn't require user input you can "batch it up" and just leave it to run. Topaz has a free demo - with watermarks - but the software is identical. I bought it (at discount: they have regular sales) because I tried to think of it like buying a camera lens, to make me feel better about it.

I'd be wary of the massively impressive demo footage used to sell cameras. Forget that, and go instead to the manufacturers' user forums (eg https://forums.insta360.com/ etc) and look at what real customers are achieving. Note that most "reviews" are paid for, so you can't even rely on those.

I think... you can do quite well with a single pole mounted "selfie" 360 camera. You can vary the pan and crop into the footage in different ways. I did not bother in my thing above, but I have some older 360 footage where I've been a bit more creative. I think there's a lot you can do there, but if you want more... you need a separate camera person.... which clearly Koura and others are using, for good reason. But the faff level is then much more - you're going out to shoot, not to ride. That's the choice, I think.

If you use a chest bag then even big cameras are pretty easy to carry about. Backpacks I hate because the gear isn't where you can get at it quickly. But then you're into radio communication and working out what to shoot and where to ride and all that... 

"carving" is a tricky one, in that it's basically the same move most of the time, and the background is typically just ski resort forest. I mean: there's inherently less variety there than in riding all over a mountain. I can at least find sections with trees and without trees - most carving folk don't really have that luxury.

For variety you could try a drone, if you have permission - make a shot which looks like it's stick mounted, then surprise the viewer by making it clear it's actually a drone. The Insta 360x3 also has "bullet time" which is a fun idea, but the field of view isn't enough for snowboarding, and the quality is really terrible.

It may be just that we have to wait for higher resolution 360 cameras...

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Out of curiosity, what phone cameras have you been using? I just went to take another peek at some of your recent videos (bumpin up that rev share, you’re welcome) and I’d be curious to know what camera you’re coming from. 

[crackaddict]

Thanks to everyone for the replies.  Honestly, a lot of it went right over my head.  My friend Caleb does the formatting and editing for me.  He's trying out Topaz AI this weekend, I'm a bit of a Luddite myself.

On 4/25/2023 at 1:05 PM, nextcarve said:

SONY ZV-E10

This looks like the kind of camera I'm looking for.  Thanks for the recommendation.  Anything else I should consider in that style and price range?

On 4/27/2023 at 6:05 PM, ShortcutToMoncton said:

curious to know what camera you’re coming from. 

Martina has an older iPhone with a single lens, I have a Samsung S21 5G.  We learned a lot this season about digital vs optical zoom and frame rate but still we know very little.

 

Next season will be better, I'll have better cameras and will probably get a professional editor.  I might even hire someone to manage an Instagram account for me.  This season was very successful though, my amateur videos were way more popular than I ever expected and I'm working on getting some sponsors now. 

Six months ago I would never have thought it possible.  I only started that YouTube channel so I could show off to the ASB community.  Then Jordan started producing videos for me and Ryan Knapton promoted my little channel from Montucky, and now I've come to realize that there's probably hardly anyone else who can carve the extremely steep groomers on soft boots like I do and so I intend to leverage that.  Look out next season for a "how to carve" video series promoting myself and my sponsor(s).  I may even be able to fulfill my childhood dream of having my own pro model, imagine becoming a professional snowboarder at 48 years old!  How crazy is that?

Turns out too there's a technical riding championship competition in Asia every winter and Red Bull co-sponsors a (non-competitive) carving event with SG - that course has limbo gates and a 360 turn, almost as though it was designed for me!  Look for me there in 2024...

 

[nextcarve]

6 hours ago, crackaddict said:

Anything else I should consider in that style and price range?

Also consider:

PANASONIC Lumix DC-GX9:
- comparable size
- not as high frame rates as the Sony (only 60 fps @ FHD)
- Electronic view finder integrated
- wide range of lenses available from different brands (micro four thirds)

Other brands like Canon, Olympus etc. have cameras with a similar form factor but do not offer same features for the price.
 

7 hours ago, crackaddict said:

Turns out too there's a technical riding championship competition in Asia every winter and Red Bull co-sponsors a (non-competitive) carving event with SG - that course has limbo gates and a 360 turn, almost as though it was designed for me!  Look for me there in 2024...

Redbull Edge is a really cool event. I participated at their first in 2017 in Austria and it was a lot of fun. Unfortunately there is no European edition anymore (only Japan).

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I’m not sure any of these dedicated camera options are any better than the iPhone 14 Pro. Has optical zoom options, great battery life and can also double as your phone, cloud storage and personal computer in a pinch! Obviously not the cheapest though. 

@crackaddict great for you!! 48, don’t look a day over 60!!  

I’m always in awe over any adult who chooses to follow their dreams. It sounds amazing! How do you pay the bills, is the media revenue sharing that decent? I know nothing about it. 

[crackaddict]

14 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

iPhone 14 Pro

Really?  It's not much more expensive than the Sony camera.  Any other opinions on that option?

 

14 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

How do you pay the bills, is the media revenue sharing that decent?

Haven't made a dime from media revenue sharing.

My secret is that I don't have any bills to pay...  I spent a decade living in a camper van for example.  Now I grow a lot of my own food, heat my house with wood that I cut myself, and wear some of the same clothes I bought from a thrift store twenty years ago.  I can buy a season pass and a couple of new boards each winter for less than it would cost you for a week long snowboard vacation in BC.  Priorities, my friend.  I also save a lot of money on haircuts and razors because I don't mind looking like a homeless person.