Workmans Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 Hello, For some background I am 25 and have been freestyle snowboarding for about 10 years and deliberately practicing carving for the last 4. I am very intrigued by hardbooting and whenever I see someone laying massive trenches It makes me want to try it out. I have reached the point where I am about to buy a hardboot setup. I found a used Coiler for sale with F2 bindings. Picture 172 cm long, 19 cm waist, 11 metre turning radius, All mountain board. I am 185lbs and 6ft tall. Would this board work well for me? I have only ever heard good things about Coiler boards. Im also a bit worried about the transition, my softboot bindings are at +12/+27. How steep is the learning curve when learning to hardboot? What binding angles should I start out with to help facilitate a smoother transition? Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated, or even just some words of encouragement. Feeling a good mix of excitement and fear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 Welcome! Based on your height and weight I will guess that your feet are around US size 10-11. This board will be pretty narrow for you. Ideally you'd find something with a 20cm waist. Also if this is a Coiler All Mountain, you might find it's on the softer side once you get good and start putting power into the board. However Coilers are popular so if you bought this one you probably wouldn't have trouble selling it if you decide you've grown out of it. If you have ants in your pants and can't wait for the perfect used board to appear, this board could work. Binding angles are determined by boot size and board width to avoid boots dragging in the snow. At first you can tolerate some overhang, but as you get better you will need to keep all boot parts inside the edges of the board. This usually results in angles approaching 60 degrees. Good softbooters have no trouble trying hardboots if they know how to carve their downhill edge (here's proof). That is, can you roll your board from the uphill edge to the downhill edge and begin carving the next turn before the board points downhill? If you can't do that yet, that is step 1 before buying anything. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 I think a Coiler AM would be a good starter board but you need to find out who that board was built for. Unlike the boards you are used to buying, each Coiler is custom built. So if that board was built for someone who weighs significantly more or less than you, it might be on the stiff or the soft side. Also as Jack points out, at 19 cm waist it is going to force some angles that are probably steeper than you want, unless you have small feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workmans Posted February 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Neil Gendzwill said: I think a Coiler AM would be a good starter board but you need to find out who that board was built for. Unlike the boards you are used to buying, each Coiler is custom built. So if that board was built for someone who weighs significantly more or less than you, it might be on the stiff or the soft side. Also as Jack points out, at 19 cm waist it is going to force some angles that are probably steeper than you want, unless you have small feet. I let the seller know my height/weight and he's about 10lbs lighter and a few inches shorter. He said it felt like a bit too much board for him, so it could be fine for me. I am a bit concerned about the waist width, what kind of angles would I be looking at? Im a 29m boot size, so not very small. I still don't have a great understanding of how steeper binding angles will impact the ride, but I've read it can be uncomfortable on the knees. Is a 19cm waist and 29m boot out of the question or would it be worth giving it a shot? This board would likely be my only opportunity to try it out this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 Size 29 boots on a 19cm board sounds like about 65 degrees with no overhang. You could probably back off to 60 or maybe 55 to get started. No matter whether your bindings are at 55 degrees or 65 degrees, this is going to be a very different experience for you. Trying to skid and steer the board like a normal snowboard at these angles is going to be very awkward regardless. There is a technique to it that can only be learned over time, basically you try not to fight or push the equipment. Skidded turns happen slower and rounder. You won't be able to just kick or pivot the board around quickly at first. For pure carving, the difference between 55 and 65 isn't a huge deal. If this is going to be your only opportunity this season I say go for it. You'll be able to sell it later if you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workmans Posted February 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jack M said: Size 29 boots on a 19cm board sounds like about 65 degrees with no overhang. You could probably back off to 60 or maybe 55 to get started. No matter whether your bindings are at 55 degrees or 65 degrees, this is going to be a very different experience for you. Trying to skid and steer the board like a normal snowboard at these angles is going to be very awkward regardless. There is a technique to it that can only be learned over time, basically you try not to fight or push the equipment. Skidded turns happen slower and rounder. You won't be able to just kick or pivot the board around quickly at first. For pure carving, the difference between 55 and 65 isn't a huge deal. If this is going to be your only opportunity this season I say go for it. You'll be able to sell it later if you want. Okay - I'm gonna do it. Thank you so much for the advice and info! If all goes to plan I will be riding this Sunday!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 10 lbs is not a big deal. Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhufish Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) As someone who started hard booting last season for the same reasons as you, I think the best advice I can give is to armor up: Wrist guards, crash pants, knee pads, and of course a helmet. 4 hours ago, Workmans said: How steep is the learning curve when learning to hardboot? There’s definitely skill transfer, but my impression is that freestyle boards and soft boots are a lot more forgiving. It might be best to think of it as learning to snowboard all over again. I certainly feel like a beginner again when I ride my alpine board, crashes and all. Hence my suggestion to wear armor. There’s also a noticeable learning curve with the gear. There are more things that need adjusting, and alpine setups seem a lot more sensitive to small changes. Edited February 10, 2022 by Cthulhufish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 Another perspective: I tried hardbooting for many years and I never got comfortable with it. I have since pursued soft boot carving. My buddy & I have worked on this for several years and have recently made significant improvements in our abilities. We both had custom softboot carving boards made 4 years ago. He recently grabbed his 16+ year old K2 Eldorado board and mounted some stiff modern bindings on it. It is now his favorite carving board. He's a big guy (250#+) but he can leave 4" deep trenches in fairly firm snow. So, I don't think ability to carve is so much about the board. In his case it may be more about the intention to carve, the ability and maybe boots and bindings stiff enough to carve well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 First thing: You're near a very densely populated area; just North of Toronto. Find a fellow Torontonian! Most hardboot riders would eagerly help a beginner. An afternoon of tips is worth its weight in gold! A Coiler AM is a fantastic purchase. I routinely ride a 10-year-old AM (with the same XT sidecut) as a favourite board. Some people love narrow boards, some love wider. You won't know until you do it for a while. 18 is commonly considered narrow, 22 is wide. That's slightly narrower than average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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