The problem with riding carving/racing decks

[jtslalom]

I rode my K2 FatBob last night at Mountain Creek. My nephew and I rode mostly on Devils Bit, a less steep diamond trail. What a night. Conditions were great for carving. I have gotten so used to riding my freestyle board that I don't think I will ride any of my hard decks for the rest of the year, only if conditions get real icy. The problem with riding plates on hard decks is that they are only made for turning. They are not as versatile as a harder soft deck with soft bindings. Last night after riding three carving runs we took two bump runs then one in the park and then a few more carving runs. Yes I could do that with a hard deck but for bumps, the park and riding switch, hard decks just can't perform as good as harder soft decks with kick tails. This is my 14th year on plates and I can honestly say the I won't be spending as much time on them as I have in the past, which was about 90% of the time. I can turn my freestyle board almost as well as my some of my hard decks and I think I will be riding the freestlye board more often. I was wondering how most of the old school guys felt about this. Do you find yourselfs going back to soft decks from time to time or do you spend almost all your time on a hard deck. For all you newer guys (6 years or less), I'm sure you'll mostly stay on your hard boards cause you're generally new to hard riding but for old school guys, what do you do?

[Guest thomas_m]

I'm a new guy by your definition and have been going in a similar direction. However, I'm not giving up my hardboots, just using them and plates on stiffer, slightly longer than normal freeride boards. I love the Prior when it's clean but especially this year, that's been a rarity.

Picked up a Steepwater 170 late in the season which will probably be my main board next year with plates and Suzukas.

T.

[SWriverstone]

I'm a new carver too...and I can tell you I'll probably never be interested in the park or moguls (but hey, I've changed my mind before). I might even sell my freeride board to fund more carving gear! :)

If all I did was snowboard, I could see branching out into other areas of the sport...but for me, carving is plenty when I'm also kayaking, flying, cycling, drumming, etc.

The "renaissance approach" is great...I just do it with multiple sports, instead of multiple disciplines within one sport. :)

Scott

[Guest James Pryor]

This is my 12th. year riding Alpine and I just change my style and technique in different conditions. This year in Southern Calif. we have had numerous powder days and hero snow days and in the pow and cord. the Proton 172 is a blast. With the stance angles at 64/64 and the right wax I just fly past others on freestyle equipment. And since most of the time we are riding groomed cond. the carving board is the ultimate tool for blowing minds. Of course when riding with our resorts pro Sean he is blowing minds on freestyle equipment carving and then riding switch on each turn so every turn is a toeside. THAT does look cool and my switch riding is limited to flat terrain. In the real deep the Pure Carve board is fun. I just love the power and control that hard boot riding gives me. Why fly a Cessna when you can fly a F-18? jp

[jp1]

jtslalom, this post comes at a very interesting time. I am new on plates, and admittedly having an issue with my progress ( just feel I should be doing better). I feel like I have to be on them everytime I get out, to get the experience. I've said all along, that "I can carve better on my freeride stuff", but just feel it is a matter of time and experience, until I can make the Alpine set up work.

Sometimes I just feel so "overloaded" from reading and lessons, that the FUN is starting to fade. I know from skiing experience that at some point, I'll find that 'magic momment' when it all 'clicks', but for now it seems distant.

I feel like I turned my back on my soft stuff, just like I did to my ski's. Recently I had been toying with the idea of getting out the soft stuff, just to see if I can still ride it. Heck I can only ride the Alpine gear 3-4 hours max., so if I'm paying for a full day @ Okemo, I'm bringing my softies, I may even throw the 'sticks' in the car to see if I can still ski also !

After all, isn't it suppose to be about 'having FUN' ?

Thanks---jp1

[philfell]

The right tool for the job. When I plan to ride groomers I get a board designed to do that. When I ride powder, I get on my pow set-up, ect. No one board/boot set-up will be ideal in all aspects of snowboarding. You should choose based on what you plan to ride the most and go from there.

[philw]

I suppose you're not expecting to get a lot of people saying:

"gee, thanks: we've been hanging out on this

hardboot forum but now you told us soft boots

are better we can stop". ;-)

It's all good - I'd like to see more soft boot riders capable of riding bumps.

Me, I'm not really interested in riding backwards, aerial ballet, or rails. So for what I do, hard gear performs better and is, in my terms, more flexible. I can use the same board to ride everything from ice through resort powder, and I don't have to fear bumps or steeps in between. Never a sideslip shall escape my edges, stopping aside. That's why I'm here.

[gdboytyler]

I've been snowboarding since around 1989 and run the gamut on boot choices.

Started on soft boots, progressively got stiffer soft boots because the soft, soft boots hurt my feet. Even rode the old Burton M5 carving board in soft boots.

When I switched to hard boots (crappy Nordica SBH), I tried riding everything in hardboots, including the half-pipe and park, like Damien Sanders. That didn't work for me, I'm just not flexible enough. My freestyle/freeride board was a Burton SuperModel 161.

When I got Flow bindings, I started thinking like Jtslalom and thought I could carve almost as well on my freestyle board as I could on my carving board. But that was because I was riding a Burton Alp 157.

When I got better hardboots, plate bindings and carving boards, my carving skills on my soft setup were nowhere near my carving skills on my hard setup.

Now, for powder, moguls, etc. I ditch the carving deck and ride an all mountain board in plates and hard boots. Currently, my all mountain board is an O-Sin 4807. Using softboots to ride moguls just kills my feet.

Now, the only time I use soft boots is for the park and pipe.

So Jt, I know exactly where you're coming from.

[Phil]

"The problem with riding plates on hard decks is that they are only made for turning. They are not as versatile as a harder soft deck with soft bindings."

I have to agree with Philfell that having different boards for different situations is probably the way to go. However, the idea that hard setups are just made for turning is way off. The only thing that I have found that I don't like to do on my hard setup is switch moguls. I really don't like riding moguls switch on my softies though either. If I am going to spend the day in the park, I will not take out my hard gear, but if I am on my hard gear, I won't think twice about going anywhere on the mountain. As far as switch is concerned, I believe that race boards excel at switch carving every bit as much as they excel at forward carving. They are stiff and stable at speed. The square tail thing is all mental. The only times that I ever dug the tail in was switch moguls (see above) and when I was teaching riding switch in the pipe when the pipe was waaaaay kinked out. That was a bad idea - and I paid for it. (deep snow is bad for switch too, but we never get any of that)

What does this mean for you? That is not for me to say. If you are diggin' your softies go for it.

Just don't give up on the versatility of hardboots and alpine/race boards.

[Speedzilla]

I've never owned softboots, and don't ever plan on it.

:D

[sluggomania]

I spent about three (of my ten)seasons on hard boot, plate bindings, and carving boards but found myself never being quite satisfied with my carving performance.

I experimented with my stance, different equipment, took lessons at my local resort, and even rode with some friendly hard booters at the hill to try to improve my riding. On top of that, I just never felt as comfortable and confident as my soft boot set-up.

As you can guess , I now ride my soft-boot set-up most of the time and occassionally pull out the carving board for a morning or two a season(rode it last weekend for first time this season).

Que sera, sera!

[nigelc]

I have ridden soft for ten years and have only done one season on the carving set-up. Also riding in NZ I believe that the conditions are far more variable that in north America. I read on here about you guys riding long stiff carving boards and I know that I just will never be able to do that on most NZ hills. My longest board is a 170 GS board and I can almost guarantee that this will be the longest board on the hill on any given day. Most carvers here have come to the same conclusion and the average board is a 162 slalom. Most people are aslo using softer hard boots and flexier bindings. Also more flexible boards seem to be better in the variable conditions. With this set-up the only thing I possibly could do better on a freestyle set-up is .. well .. freestyle i.e in the half pipe. For everything else I feel that a more forgiving carving set-up is simply a better tool for the job

[Fleaman]

I have only ridden softies once in the Powder, but the last 10 years I have been on plates. I am confident in the bumps, trees and pow with my hardboots. I have no interest in jumping or riding switch, although with a bit of practice I am sure I can do it on my coiler AM.

As I said in a previous post, All trails lead to a groomed run. If you are at the top of the mountain and riding powder or trees, they will end up at one point onto a groomed run down to the lift. Being an all mountain rider, I love bumps and trees, but also like to be able to dig trenches and lay some turns out.

If I rode soft boots I could ride the pow and trees then skid my way down steep groomed runs, With my Hard boots, I can ride the pow and trees then trench the cord on the steep groomed runs. I am better off with the setup I have now. (hardboots.)

And besides, Hardbooters get more chicks!

[D-Sub]

aww comeon, fleaman..its not like one cant carve in softboots!

if they didnt hurt my fckin feet so much Id certainly ride more often with them. I dont feel comfortable on anything but groomers when Im ridin plates, and it bums me out because Ive definitely lost my "all around" skills.

[Fleaman]

.

aww comeon, fleaman..its not like one cant carve in softboots!

Maybe it can be done, but I have yet to see a softbooter carve anything with a pitch and enjoy it.

The problem with sore feet goes away if you get your setup dialed and canted properly. Also good fitting boots are a must, but the only problem is supply. I wonder how comfy touring boots are for riding?

[Phil]

"Maybe it can be done, but I have yet to see a softbooter carve anything with a pitch and enjoy it."

I would love to disagree with you, but if I came to BC, your mountains would kick my butt, so I'll keep quiet.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Fleaman

The problem with sore feet goes away if you get your setup dialed and canted properly. Also good fitting boots are a must, but the only problem is supply. I wonder how comfy touring boots are for riding?

I was actually talkin about my softboots...theyre the ones that hurt. Hards hurt a little, but nothing like soft.

still tryin to figure out where i "should" be with cants and the like...lately the outside of my legs, right above my knees, has been pretty damn sore after carving a few hours.

[Kirk]

I rode some borrowed softies last season one day (first time in ? seasons) on my freeride/bx deck - HATED it! Not comfortable, not responsive. And these were the right size and a pretty stiff soft boot. Rode that same board with my plates and shells several times this season in all kinds of conditions and absolutely LOVED it! I used to secretly admit that soft boots were probably the best call for everything except carving the groomers, but refused to give up the comfort and control of my hardboots. Decided to give it a try one more time... that was the LAST time. For all terrain riding, all-mt/freeride deck and hardboots - best of both worlds! The only disadvantage I can see is that you can't drive too well with hardboots Anybody ever try that:p

[rikytheripster]

jtslalom,

Am interested to know what angles your riding on your softie setup? IF your using it for everything do you have a balance between reg soft angles and hard angles or not?

[sic t 2]

When I see you carve a circle around a ski patroller, directing traffic, I'll be 100% convinced you carve almost the same on both setups (and I'll be the first to tell everybody here).

You said it a few weeks ago,,, not me ! lol

Maybe see you up there now. Gonna sneak up for a few turns. But I won't know how to find you anymore....

sic

[Bobby Buggs]

I know what you mean. Although I dont go as far as to switch boots, I love riding my 4807 with my plates and will free ride on my Coiler Am when there is loose stuff. I spent a good 8 of my 12 years riding plates on free ride directional boards at 45/35 and not carving a thing. Bumps and tree lines were my hang out. This alpine thing has only been the last 4 years for me. You can say your gonna ditch the plates and really mean it when conditions are this good, I love base float too. Just wait till its the good ole Ice coast conditions again, You will be running for the power of plates;)

[kmartshopper]

Originally posted by Fleaman

Maybe it can be done, but I have yet to see a softbooter carve anything with a pitch and enjoy it.

I haven't even had a chance to ride the hardboots I just bought... but that is the precise reason I got them.

On a scale of 1-10, I'm maybe a 5 in softies/Malimutes. Only a few times this season have I seen someone exceeding my capabilities on softies... and they were 6or7/10 at best.

Every single time someone grabs my attention ripping up the steeps and hardpack like I want to but can't --- (the 8,9,10's/10) they have never been on softboots. So if they exist, I've yet to see them.

I still intend to ride bumps/powder/woods on softies and a

K2 Recon Riser 161 (light) and a Salomon Precept 167 (wide). I'll try bumps on the hardboots, but I like jumping and popping around off the bumps, and I don't know how well that would work.

________

Mexico hotels

[philw]

Originally posted by Fleaman

Maybe it can be done, but I have yet to see a softbooter carve anything with a pitch and enjoy it.

I know what you mean - to judge by what you see on the slopes and what the magazines show (see TWS thread). But I've ridden with several BC people who are well capable of doing both of the above. But then they're ex-pros and they ride everyday for work: they could carve a dinner tray.:)

[Guest silversurf]

Originally posted by philw

I know what you mean - to judge by what you see on the slopes and what the magazines show (see TWS thread). But I've ridden with several BC people who are well capable of doing both of the above. But then they're ex-pros and they ride everyday for work: they could carve a dinner tray.:)

Well, I'm a hardbooter who runs a soft deck as well (granted stiff Soloman boots and SPX-5 bindings), as for me it just depends on mood and conditions. I just got back from Colorado and decided to only take my soft boots/board since I was on business and wanted to be travelling a little lighter than trying to carry both.

I was carving it up at Copper on the chop coming down Union peak as well as part of Spaulding, at decent speed. I was taking the intermediate groomers at good speed and set my self a decent trench stretching it out.

Now all that said, it's nothing like an alp board w/ hard boots, in the sense of getting as laid out or in overall stability, but I do enjoy myself immensly in soft boots (as well as hard boots) and can handle fairly serious speed and any pitch I desire.

I think it's mostly an experience and equipment issue for being able to deal with pitches and difficult terrain in either soft or hard boots. As mentioned, i also simply vary my style as needed.

BTW, I'm still baffled by the negative stance thing that all the jibbers have going on these days (toes pointed out in the soft boot stance). Just doesn't make any sense...I guess I'm getting old(er).

-c

[philw]

Originally posted by silversurf BTW, I'm still baffled by the negative stance thing that all the jibbers have going on these days (toes pointed out in the soft boot stance). Just doesn't make any sense...I guess I'm getting old(er).

Duck.

I think it's supposed to help riding switch, which I guess makes sense. Although the "trick" aspects of riding backwards are less impressive if you're not actually riding backwards, in my opinion.

In the UK flatland it's very fashionable. It will be interesting to see if the next generation do it. I've never seen anyone run trees or steeps with such a stance, but perhaps it can be done.